Just curious what percent of income your church pays in staff salaries? Are you comfortable with it? If not what percentage do you feel is appropriate?

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I believe all administrative cost for my church is between 15% and 20%. The rest goes to ministries. I'm fine with that.

never mind

What do you consider staff?

All of tge above. Staff is critical and in larger churches some need to be full time but the church must be able to pay them living wages. However every dollar spent on staff is a dollar not going directly to outreach or ministry. I just wondering what you think is a proper or acceptable balance.

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That's like saying that every dollar spend on cops is a dollar not going to law enforcement.

so youre ok with 100% of income being spent on the staff salaries within the church?


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Absolutely. That is exactly what he said.  No, you aren't just making crap up at all.

Derp.

Some of the people I know who throw money around the most work in churches. Expensive cars, boats, motorcycles, fancy watches...  

I'm 100% OK with churches spending its money to accomplish its mission - including paying the people who actually do it.

You're creating a false dichotomy between "outreach and ministry" and those that do the outreach and ministry.

im not creating a false anything. Im simply asking the question. I have never been involved with a church that spends all its income on its own in house staff but thats not for me to judge. Our staff salaries and benefits run about 25%.


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In my church, the only ones even getting paid are the janitorial and maintenance crews and they handle multiple buildings. Everyone else even up to the head of the church has a job and pays their own bills. (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints). Keeps out the riff raff in the pulpit a little better.

Thread related question:



Does the quality of the pastor determine your donations at all?



I go to a small church and quite frankly the pastor gives extremely uninspiring and uninformative messages (wife will not switch churches). The pastor's salary makes up 40% of the budget, with benefits almost another 25%, add in dues and missionaries and were negative annually when someone doesn't donate their estate to the church.

Unfortunetly, relying on a death to keep your church afloat is not a viable long term plan. I do think the "quality" of the pastor is a factor. Right or wrong the manner in which The Word is delivered is important. The Message is key but if delivery didnt matter than all churches would be equally effective and successful. The fact is that today people expect more out of their church then just 1 hour on Sunday. Church doesnt happen just on Sunday but rather in small groups in homes and elsewhere. If the church isnt facilitating this then its likely they arent appealling to a growing segment of society where child care and kids ministry is important. Also the use of technology is of grwoing importance. Anyone who says it isnt has got their head in the sand. I also think that spending a disproportional amount of income to add more people is a problem.   Having specialized pastors for every age group, executive pastors for covering the money side, worship pastors, administration staff, technology and IT staff, etc call all add huge expense. They also add value but the income needs to be there first not the other way around. I also think a non profit paying a greater percentage of revenue to salaries and benefits than most for profit commercial enterprises sends the wrong message and may indicate a problem with the priorities. <30% for me is where my comfort level is. Want to add staff and give raises? grow the church and increase tithes.




 
 

Yup. And lots of the weekly cleaning is done by members of the church. We have a few families a week in my ward that vacuum, clean bathrooms, etc to keep the building clean. Then once or twice a year there is a professional cleaning service that comes and deep cleans the carpets and all that stuff.


Edit: Meant to quote GoatHerder.  I'm also a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

 

Yep.  I remember while I was in Basic, the Chaplain drove a BRAND NEW (this is in early 2011) BMW coupe.  Thing had to be $50k at least.  

So the chaplain tries to show he is so humble and bla bla bla.  I have my own faith and I dont really like going to other groups for spiritual advice so I just ignored his irritating preaching.  Few weeks later his family come to visit him at work and I see his poor wife is driving a beat up early 90's minivan with all his kids.  I REALLY wanted to dropkick that guy for his hypocrisy... Then I saw that that was standard operating procedure in the army lol.  

I dont have an issue with clergymen being well paid.  If its a position that actually requires full time work, so be it.  If that work pays well, thats ok too.  But when that work pays SO well that you start thinking you are better than others, or you are just obviously not living a 'Christian' manner with your money (see the chaplain making his wife drive a POS) I kind of wonder how humble you really are, or if you are just a really good salesman on Sunday mornings.  


In my church, almost everything at the local level is done through volunteer/lay ministry.

I wouldn't get to worked up about church finances and things, so long as you are attending the church that you feel called too. Everyone must appear before the judgment seat of Christ and receive His evaluation. I am scared to death of covetousness and Him saying I loved possessions. You will give an account whether you gave or not, your pastor will give an account for the 50k bmw he choose to buy. Let's remember that David worked for a wicked leader (saul) and it was the Lord's plan for him to still work hard under Saul.

I work as a full-time Missionary who raises his own support. I'm the only income in our family. I think I made $17k last year. I love my job and wouldn't change it for the world. It hurts to see people using the name of Jesus as a means of financial gain when I sell christmas presents to pay some bills. Still I would not trade it for the world and the Lord is still good even when He allows difficulty in my life and blesses others who don't seem to be interested in Him.

I think a lot of it has to do with the size of the congregation and how much the pastor does. My parish is small, about 150-175. Our pastor is the only full-time staff member. He does everything a pastor does, plus secretarial type work (bulletin, newsletter, any paperwork that's not financial related) and maintaining the website. He's also very handy and does a number of small repairs, which we would otherwise have to pay the labor for,.

We pay someone to come in once a week and clean. We pay a lawn service to cut the grass (large lawn), but a member who owns a business pays for one of his employees to plow the parking lot with a company truck. A retired CPA does the bookkeeping for free.

As a pastor, I've served in churches where over 60% of the budget went to staff/paid positions and that was an unhealthy amount and did limit what the church could do ministry wise. I also have served in a smaller church where it was more like 30% to staff. I think it is hard to set an overall percentage because every church is different. I think it is healthier to have a lower percentage and more volunteer work from church members as that encourages the church to not become a professional driven entity where people just show up on Sunday and expect everything to be done for them.

I also think one factor that should be looked at is how the pastor's salary compares to the average income of the church members. A pastor who is faithful and serves diligently should be compensated like any other professional but it should not be at a level where he is making excessively more than the average church member he is serving. That can setup all sorts of problems, accusations and resentments.

Well put, Preacher. Thank you for the inside info. I agree with all of your thoughts and am glad to know my line of thinking coincides with that of someone in the field.



 

I don't believe that is entirely correct.  Perhaps one of the resident Mormon experts could chime in on this.