I have a 07 1 ton diesel truck and it does everything I need to other than fitting in parking garages and tight areas in Houston and I'm going to keep it. Also have a beater Jetta tdi that I used to commute in that runs and drives fine but it's not worth anything so I may as well hang onto it too.

What I want is a nicer, newer, going out/date/whatever vehicle as a 29yr old single guy. Originally I wanted a 1/2ton 4dr 4x4 truck or a Tacoma/Colorado etc. so it would still have some utility but good grief it's more than I want to spend for a tertiary vehicle. Then I saw a 4-5yr old camaro ss with 60k on it for 20k and I started thinking about a car.

I'd like to keep it around $20-25k, 2010ish or newer, 75k miles or under. Nothing European. I already have an idea how expensive and how much of a pain in the ass maintenance is on them. I'm leaning towards a camaro ss actually. Something with a v8 or at least guts and preferably a manual transmission. Not planning on modding. Just something nice and pleasurable to drive. I'm 6'3" 205 so I need to be able to fit also. The 01Jetta is about the lower limit for roomy.

What other suggestions do you have?

No convertibles please

2005-2007 Corvette with 30-50k miles
2011-2014 Mustang GT 5.0 (must have performance package with brembos or don't buy it)


The 5th gen Camaros you are looking at are heavy and boring to drive.  They don't feel like a performance or muscle car and this is coming from someone who's a camaro diehard and owned 10+ camaros.  If you want a good performing camaro that isn't a ZL1 you need to back up to the 01-02 Camaro SS.

I used to get a chubby for 01-02 ws6 trans ams.

College friend had a 01 Camaro ss and it was fun to drive but my fat foot barely fit under the dash to push the clutch. I kept hanging my heel on the floormat while my toe would catch something under the dash.

I've never been a ford guy but I'll look into those mustangs. The only ones before I knew to be pretty nice were the 03-04 Cobras.

I could try to save a few more bucks and go higher.

What about a 2nd gen cts-v? College buddy had one and it was a beast and yet so nice to ride in.

Today if I was in the situation of wanting something fun to drive that had a modicum of daily practicality and put fourth a good image I would probably buy a late model "hot hatch" of some sort.

In fact when my dune buggy project runs it's inevitable course that's probably what I'll buy.

Then do it!  Get a WS6 Trans Am.  You can find them with like 30,000 miles on them for 15ish that look BRAND NEW.  

I would but for the reasons I want to buy another car I don't want a 15yr old one. Time causes just as many issues as mileage does on newer electronics and plastics.

Fwiw this will only be a recreational, sometimes errand vehicle. I have a company truck for work. My vehicles get 5-10k a year.

Normally I would agree with you but I know these 4th gens inside and out and have bought many of them when they were 10 years old and never had issues.  Here's what you'll need to do

1. replace tires
2. change all fluids (including brake and power steering ( you should do this on any new car that you buy
3. If the car was owned by someone who's kept it garaged all of the interior plastic and such will be like new.  Buy one that's 100% stock.
4. battery

Basically what I'm saying is these cars if stored vs being driven and as such have under 40,000 miles AGE VERY WELL.  If you are going to let this recreational car sit a lot of the time anyways why buy something new and spend AT LEAST $10,000 more?  Makes no sense.  I just sold a 2002 35th SS that had like 25,000 miles on that I kept a battery tender on, that car would fire right up and drive all day anytime I wanted it to.   When compared to the newer stuff you actually may have an easier time with the LS1 era cars as the new ones have TONs more of electronics and crap that seem to fail right from the start.

I had 2 4th gen F bodies. They're slow and boring Go Carts compared to the new Camaros.  The WS6 is a full second slower to 60 and won't turn as hard.  Or brake as hard.  Hell the new V6 Camaros are better performing cars.

A 2010-2015 Camaro SS (425hp V8) is barely breaking into a 12.9 with a hot driver and usually somewhere in the low 13s due to it's weight and IRS.  That's EXACTLY what a 01-02 WS6 or SS runs with 75 less HP.  0-60 for a 2010 SS is 5.1 (with no trac aids) and a 0-60 for a 2002 WS6 TA is 5.0 flat.  

handling the 2010 SS does the slalom at around 68mph, the 02 Camaro SS does it at 65mph with a live axle!  Now the new 6th gen 2016+ are supposed to be mid 12s cars and have lost some weight which will help but the 5th gen is a joke to any real Camaro enthusiast.   Op also can't afford or want to afford a $47,000 16-17 Camaro 2SS.

I did say new models,  which utterly destroy any numbers the WS6 ever put up,   but comparing the slalom, which is partially the driver instead of measured lateral g which is mechanical capability of the car.   Gen 5 SS' win.

And the Gen 5 SS cars are in the mid to high 4s depending on year and transmission. Not 5.1.  
You can claim gen 5s are a joke,  and you're entitled to your opinion, it does however come with the view of the ass of the newer car,  since it'll be in front of you.

Never mind that youre comparing the new base V8  to an optioned car.

Again not all about performance here. Just wanting something that is fun and is faster than most on the road and nice, refined, whatever, to drive compared to my truck.

If I'm going to spend more than about $25k, which would get me a pretty nice late model Camaro, I'm leaning towards cts-v sedan for around 30-34.

I bought a 13 SS  3 weeks ago for 26. A friend bought a 14 ZL1 last week for 38.  I've seen them a tad cheaper, his was really low miles.
We looked at CTS-Vs. But my wife has a negative view of Caddys

Any LS1 Z28 or SS especially the 01-02 with 3.23 or 3.42 gears are going to give your 5th gen a hard time in a stop light grand prix.  I've seen it happen 10+ times where a 5th gen gets walked by a stock LS1 6spd Z28.  Don't get me wrong I like the looks of the 5th gen but they made too many compromises trying to make the car appeal to too many buyer types (mainly women).  The 4th gen says "fuck you, my sole job is to go fast and that's it."  Just look at some of the rediculously high prices that LS1 cars bring, the car hobby recognizes that the 4th gen was not surpassed by the 5th gen.  If you want a good everyday car I'll concede that the 5th gen is better at being a regular car, but when it comes to being a rocket ship, the 4th gen takes that easily.  Only time will tell if enthusiasts embrace the 5.5gen (6th gen) cars.

FYI, a 85 IROC can pull a .92 on the ski pad.

LSx FD RX7.  Sub 3000lb w/driver(normally), perfect weight distribution and able to stuff proper sized(285's/315's) meats at all four corners to detach retinas in the twisties. Can fit any of the LSx family of engines, accommodate superchargers, single or twin turbos etc...  Either the older T56 6spd or the newer TR-6060 6spd transmissions can be used, multi-disk clutches, mustang 8.8 IRS out back.

Swapped FD's range from $15k for a basic N/A LS1/T56, needing some cosmetic work(paint, interior plastic parts).

$20-30k for a super clean version with a better engine(modded LS1, LS6 etc), full suspension(coilovers, bushings, STB's etc), full wheel/tire setups(big $ Volk/Work/BBS rims etc) various body kits and new paint.

$40k+ for one that's fucking insane(1000rwhp etc) in addition to the above cars parts lists/condition.

Want to screw around on weekends with 400rwp@2900lbs or blast over 200mph at the Texas Mile in something insane, you can do any of it. Plus you get to royally piss off all the die hard rotorary engine purists at every car meet, almost as good as tasting liberal tears.


"Norotors" is the only forum you'll need for these.

I can't stay out of this any longer. We know you are a complete utter unabashed 4th gen fanboi SS

But just read your own posts and virtues you are lauding on the 4th gen f-body

Yes if you buy some garage queen sub 40k mile car it will be pristine inside. The problem is the moment you start driving the car regularly to actually enjoy it the paper mache 90's GM interior will start wearing like it within the next 50k miles it will look like it was used for a rabbit hutch inside. The only way to keep these cars together is to not enjoy them.

Yes the old cars could pull decent skidpad numbers. But let's ponder what a skidpad is. A smooth flat well cared for surface. On our crumbling roads the 5th gen will run away from the stiffly sprung 4th as the axle bounces the car around going over road imperfections.

Unfortunately they're massively ugly a LS 4th camaro looks legitimately like a damn catfish and the Poncho looks like the horrible horrible design that Pontiac loved in the 90's. A ford probe looks like a prewar classic compared to a late 4th gen fer petes sake!

Lastly a 4th gen doesn't scream stoplight bruiser to even a car guy. It screams middle aged mullet mobile for someone not serious enough about going fast or lacking fab skills  to ditch the camaro and swap his shit over into a much lighter, easily worked on ford fox platform

Ya'll have gone way outside of what I'm looking for here.
Even if it looks pristine a 4th gen is still a dated car and look. I don't want something I have to tinker with all the damn time and I definitely don't want a project. I want nice, not overly conspicuous, quiet, yet powerful that I can drive to church, go to a show, whatever and projects a good image.

More an more Im leaning towards a 2nd gen cts-v sedan. I wouldn't mind an automatic in that car. In a camaro I know I would want a manual.

Yeah, you must not spend much time on this part of the forum, those 2 go at it in nearly about every Chevy vs ford vs blah blah blah thread.

OP You don't need our advice, you already stated what you like and there is nothing wrong with the cars your looking at it. A new Camaro is a sweet ride, a new mustang is a sweet ride. Hell, if I had disposable money I would drive about any of them, challenger, bmw, cts, honestly you name it, most have of them have relatively small issues.

Go drive them and see which feels best.

The autos have a manual mode with paddles.   I've found that it satisfies my needs.  Can't go wrong with the CTS either though. They're pretty impressive cars.

Ok yeah they just disintegrate right away once you drive them right?  I mean sure they cheap but that's the point, they are all performance and anyone with half a brain can keep one nice by doing basic maintenance and not treating like a regular car.  Don't worry the 5th gen is no different and is already well on it's way to king of the trailer park so don't kid yourself.    I personally was more a fan of the LT1 noses and thought the LS1 nose was not as nice but......... the LS1 IS THE NEW 5.0 fox body in that every single one of them on the street is WELL modified and represents VERY well in the street scene.  Add to that, anyone with $2000 can make a LS1 a mid 11 second car and the 5th just get's ignored.  Real camaro people have yet to embrace the 5th gen as its UNGODLY heavy, has IRS which is debateable if it's an improvement or not, has an interior that's just as shitty as a 4th gen, rides/drives like a regular car unless you pop for a ZL1 to get something that feels like a performance car, and the blind spots holy mutha are those completely piss poor.     I'll give the 6th gen a chance as they at least listened to the enthusiasts and tried to reduce the weight, but the 5th gen is still inferior to a 4th gen LS1 car as all the 5th gen did was excel in the looks department mean while ignoring every other category that mattered to the people who are loyal camaro buyers  Last point I'll make it the cost.  the 5th gen is so out of wack when it comes to what they cost vs. what you get.  Up until the 5th gen, a 2-3 year old 3rd gen, LT1, or LS1 would always run you about 65% of what a new one would cost.  The 5th gen is going on almost 10 years old and every damn one of them is STILL north of $20,000, Why?????????  Because of this you'd be stupid as all hell to spend that kind of money on a 5th gen aka a Cadillac CTS wearing a 69 Camaro mask when you could buy an ultra low mile 2005-2007 C6 Corvette and mid miles 08's for the SAME MONEY.  

If all you've known is lower quality beat up used versions of 4th gens and just want a regular "comfy" i-everything car with a V8, then yes the 5th gen by all means is exactly for you.  But for the rest of us who are true Camaro enthusiasts (I've owned at least 2-3 from every generation) the 5th gen was a YUGE disappointment.  Again, hopefully the 6th gen can get a less-Japanese looking refresh and try to recruit us camaro enthusiasts back.