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Posted: 6/29/2016 12:56:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What lag are you talking about? These small turbos spin up super quick that's why the engines power curve favors <5252. Even the small amount of lag that's there means nothing in the few specific situations you mention. I kinda feel like you're grasping for straws. Embrace the turbo, people don't seem to mind doing that when it comes to their beloved diesel engines.  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you spin your 6.2 up around town in a truck? 
IMO your comment would make the think the similar torque out of the 3.5EB at a much lower RPM is more usable around town. Iron block, aluminum block doesn't really matter at these power levels so not sure why that's even part of the equation here. No, when I want to get across a busy intersection or make a sketchy left turn, or just about anything else around town, I don't have to worry about any lag. I like the EB, but you seem to think it's some wonder engine and haven't even owned one. Iron blocks are part of the equation because they are used in the F250/F350, GM HD, Ram HD, and are not an afterthought. You seem to think truck engines should only be about extreme performance, while most people who buy trucks, do so for durability. What lag are you talking about? These small turbos spin up super quick that's why the engines power curve favors <5252. Even the small amount of lag that's there means nothing in the few specific situations you mention. I kinda feel like you're grasping for straws. Embrace the turbo, people don't seem to mind doing that when it comes to their beloved diesel engines. I've owned identical EB and 6.2L (both3.73 gears) trucks and there is lag, whether you want to believe it or not. You haven't owned either one and know only about what the magazines say. For the last time, I like the EB and turbo's, but it's not the end all be all engine that you want or claim it to be, the new one coming out in the Raptor might be just that. Furthermore, I've towed the same boat with both trucks and I actually get better MPG's with the 6.2L, so it's not like the EB is some super duper eco Prius bullshit. |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 1:14:45 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've owned identical EB and 6.2L (both3.73 gears) trucks and there is lag, whether you want to believe it or not. You haven't owned either one and know only about what the magazines say. For the last time, I like the EB and turbo's, but it's not the end all be all engine that you want or claim it to be, the new one coming out in the Raptor might be just that. Furthermore, I've towed the same boat with both trucks and I actually get better MPG's with the 6.2L, so it's not like the EB is some super duper eco Prius bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you spin your 6.2 up around town in a truck?
IMO your comment would make the think the similar torque out of the 3.5EB at a much lower RPM is more usable around town. Iron block, aluminum block doesn't really matter at these power levels so not sure why that's even part of the equation here. No, when I want to get across a busy intersection or make a sketchy left turn, or just about anything else around town, I don't have to worry about any lag. I like the EB, but you seem to think it's some wonder engine and haven't even owned one. Iron blocks are part of the equation because they are used in the F250/F350, GM HD, Ram HD, and are not an afterthought. You seem to think truck engines should only be about extreme performance, while most people who buy trucks, do so for durability. What lag are you talking about? These small turbos spin up super quick that's why the engines power curve favors <5252. Even the small amount of lag that's there means nothing in the few specific situations you mention. I kinda feel like you're grasping for straws. Embrace the turbo, people don't seem to mind doing that when it comes to their beloved diesel engines. I've owned identical EB and 6.2L (both3.73 gears) trucks and there is lag, whether you want to believe it or not. You haven't owned either one and know only about what the magazines say. For the last time, I like the EB and turbo's, but it's not the end all be all engine that you want or claim it to be, the new one coming out in the Raptor might be just that. Furthermore, I've towed the same boat with both trucks and I actually get better MPG's with the 6.2L, so it's not like the EB is some super duper eco Prius bullshit. I suppose. I would think whatever lag you speak of with a small twin trubo setup would at least break even with a larger engine having an automatic transmission kick down to a lower gear to get into the power band of said NA engine. |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 7:08:49 AM EDT
[#3]
The turbo lag is just enough to notice it's there occasionally. It's not enough however to impede driving in any way
I'm not actually convinced it's lag personally and not fords crappy drive by wire needed a reset every so often or it gets laggy. The outlets on the manifolds are only 1" going into the small turbos, there no real lag. 98% of the ex anti EB owners are just that way because they can't get over the sound or lack thereof and make up all kinds of wacky justification for going back to the inferior engine |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 12:03:17 PM EDT
[#4]
The only lag you ever experience is when the EB is at extremely low RPM that would require any NA engine to drop a gear (or two), and again this is only during towing.
During normal driving or hard acceleration, there is no lag in the EB. Sometimes the ECU will retard the input of the accelerator to ensure you're not doing something you shouldn't be doing. Some people may mistake that for "lag", but that has nothing to do with the motor, thats the ECU. |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 6:05:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've owned identical EB and 6.2L (both3.73 gears) trucks and there is lag, whether you want to believe it or not. You haven't owned either one and know only about what the magazines say. For the last time, I like the EB and turbo's, but it's not the end all be all engine that you want or claim it to be, the new one coming out in the Raptor might be just that. Furthermore, I've towed the same boat with both trucks and I actually get better MPG's with the 6.2L, so it's not like the EB is some super duper eco Prius bullshit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you spin your 6.2 up around town in a truck?
IMO your comment would make the think the similar torque out of the 3.5EB at a much lower RPM is more usable around town. Iron block, aluminum block doesn't really matter at these power levels so not sure why that's even part of the equation here. No, when I want to get across a busy intersection or make a sketchy left turn, or just about anything else around town, I don't have to worry about any lag. I like the EB, but you seem to think it's some wonder engine and haven't even owned one. Iron blocks are part of the equation because they are used in the F250/F350, GM HD, Ram HD, and are not an afterthought. You seem to think truck engines should only be about extreme performance, while most people who buy trucks, do so for durability. What lag are you talking about? These small turbos spin up super quick that's why the engines power curve favors <5252. Even the small amount of lag that's there means nothing in the few specific situations you mention. I kinda feel like you're grasping for straws. Embrace the turbo, people don't seem to mind doing that when it comes to their beloved diesel engines. I've owned identical EB and 6.2L (both3.73 gears) trucks and there is lag, whether you want to believe it or not. You haven't owned either one and know only about what the magazines say. For the last time, I like the EB and turbo's, but it's not the end all be all engine that you want or claim it to be, the new one coming out in the Raptor might be just that. Furthermore, I've towed the same boat with both trucks and I actually get better MPG's with the 6.2L, so it's not like the EB is some super duper eco Prius bullshit. Bingo.... |
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Posted: 7/7/2016 10:48:39 AM EDT
[#6]
So frustrating.
Called a dealer to see about when I can order one and the sales manager said "I didn't think they were making any more Raptors." |
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Posted: 7/7/2016 11:01:27 AM EDT
[#7]
I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City.
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Posted: 7/7/2016 11:03:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So frustrating. Called a dealer to see about when I can order one and the sales manager said "I didn't think they were making any more Raptors." I love talking to experts. 
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Posted: 7/7/2016 11:59:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 3:14:18 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote History The prices for 1st gen Raptors are crazy. When they first came out and were $38k or so they were probably the best value in a truck. Spot on. I paid under $40k for mine, and am thinking about selling it while the selling is good. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 3:22:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So frustrating. Called a dealer to see about when I can order one and the sales manager said "I didn't think they were making any more Raptors." The dealer business model can't die soon enough. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 3:31:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Yes. 12.5 years here |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 6:11:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. 12.5 years here Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Yes. 12.5 years here If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 9:40:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Yes. 12.5 years here If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. I will have to check and get back to you. I know that the last 2 we had at the end of the 14 model year we got sticker. Like I said earlier I have a hard time believing they will be discounted. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 10:29:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spot on. I paid under $40k for mine, and am thinking about selling it while the selling is good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prices for 1st gen Raptors are crazy. When they first came out and were $38k or so they were probably the best value in a truck. Spot on. I paid under $40k for mine, and am thinking about selling it while the selling is good. Several months ago, I unloaded my 4 year old Raptor for within $400 of what I paid for it brand new. I've got a very large down payment waiting for a 2017 Raptor, I've read that the order banks open up next week. I am super amped to order a 2017. |
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Posted: 7/11/2016 10:33:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Yes. 12.5 years here If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. Ordering is the only way to get any kind of good deal on a Raptor. I ordered two first gen Raptors (a 2011 and a 2012) each was $500 over invoice. My brother did the same on a 2012 Raptor. 2nd gen production volume is reported to be much higher, Ford has already said they will produce enough trucks to meet consumer demand. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 9:17:39 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ordering is the only way to get any kind of good deal on a Raptor. I ordered two first gen Raptors (a 2011 and a 2012) each was $500 over invoice. My brother did the same on a 2012 Raptor. 2nd gen production volume is reported to be much higher, Ford has already said they will produce enough trucks to meet consumer demand. I'll believe this when I see it. They couldn't make enough before and with the new body(aluminum) and the new motor they are going to be able to produce them faster? They can't produce regular F-150s fast enough for national demand right now never mind one that requires different shocks and body/interior parts. Look at the people on this board that say they are going to get one as soon as they come out. And this is just one board on the interwebs. I work at a small dealership in a town of around 1000 people and we already have people talking about getting one or trading their 13/14 for a new one. I would imagine this is happening across the nation. When you ordered your 11 and 12 not many people really knew what they were. We sold a couple of those model years at a little off the sticker if you didn't have a trade. The last two years, 13 and 14, I don't think anybody got a discount. Hell on our 14 that I sold, I had another dealer offer me $1000 over sticker for the truck. So another dealer was going to pay me all the mark up plus $1000 and then he was going to sell it for more money than that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've been checking every couple days and they still haven't released the 17 order guide yet. I'll let you know when I see it. It's got to bee pretty soon as the calendar I have shows the 17 build to start in two weeks at the Dearborn plant and mid August in Kansas City. Thanks. I know you said you work at a dealer in Elizabethtown. Are you a salesman? Yes. 12.5 years here If I bought (ordered one to be built - not from your allocation) from you, what would we be talking about in terms of price, relative to MSRP? I've heard of places charging over MSRP, and others as low as $500 over invoice. Ordering is the only way to get any kind of good deal on a Raptor. I ordered two first gen Raptors (a 2011 and a 2012) each was $500 over invoice. My brother did the same on a 2012 Raptor. 2nd gen production volume is reported to be much higher, Ford has already said they will produce enough trucks to meet consumer demand. I'll believe this when I see it. They couldn't make enough before and with the new body(aluminum) and the new motor they are going to be able to produce them faster? They can't produce regular F-150s fast enough for national demand right now never mind one that requires different shocks and body/interior parts. Look at the people on this board that say they are going to get one as soon as they come out. And this is just one board on the interwebs. I work at a small dealership in a town of around 1000 people and we already have people talking about getting one or trading their 13/14 for a new one. I would imagine this is happening across the nation. When you ordered your 11 and 12 not many people really knew what they were. We sold a couple of those model years at a little off the sticker if you didn't have a trade. The last two years, 13 and 14, I don't think anybody got a discount. Hell on our 14 that I sold, I had another dealer offer me $1000 over sticker for the truck. So another dealer was going to pay me all the mark up plus $1000 and then he was going to sell it for more money than that. |
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Posted: 7/12/2016 11:31:54 AM EDT
[#18]
All I'm saying is that if an educated and motivated consumer shops around, he will be able to order a Raptor, wait 2-3 months, and pay $500 over invoice. My family and I have done it 3 times and the GM at my local Ford dealer already agreed to do it again after the order banks open for the 2017 Raptors. I know a lot of dealers gouge uneducated consumers. I suspect the GM at my Ford dealer cares more about selling me many cars over the long run. I also go out of my way to have my Ford company cars serviced at his dealership. We seem to have a good business relationship.
I agree that due to demand, the wait for a 2017 Raptor might be longer than before. I also acknowledge that no one will be getting a good deal on a Raptor right off the dealer lot. Getting a good deal will absolutely require customer ordering the truck and waiting for delivery. |
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Posted: 7/13/2016 8:22:53 AM EDT
[#19]
Called around yesterday. Still nobody knows anything.
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Posted: 7/13/2016 11:05:29 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want one and could afford one. But there is no way my conscience would allow me to justify spending that much cash on a truck. 
Same here. I could get a used platinum for less that a used Raptor. But still like the Raptor...
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Posted: 7/14/2016 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#21]
The new Raptor with the 3.5 is much quicker than the 6.2L trucks (according to a lil' birdy or something), and will have much more potential now that it has 2 fuel systems. The new Raptor is pretty kick ass from what I've seen.
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Posted: 7/14/2016 1:48:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The new Raptor with the 3.5 is much quicker than the 6.2L trucks (according to a lil' birdy or something), and will have much more potential now that it has 2 fuel systems. The new Raptor is pretty kick ass from what I've seen. The port and direct injection should also eliminate the valve coking that's problematic for DI motors. It'd be interesting to see how the fuel delivery tables are setup |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 2:04:53 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The port and direct injection should also eliminate the valve coking that's problematic for DI motors. It'd be interesting to see how the fuel delivery tables are setup Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The new Raptor with the 3.5 is much quicker than the 6.2L trucks (according to a lil' birdy or something), and will have much more potential now that it has 2 fuel systems. The new Raptor is pretty kick ass from what I've seen. The port and direct injection should also eliminate the valve coking that's problematic for DI motors. It'd be interesting to see how the fuel delivery tables are setup The amount of power that will be able to be extracted now that running out of fuel is no longer an issue will be impressive I'm sure. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 6:24:32 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
I've always loved the raptor but could never afford one. Now I'm in a position to get one, and the new 2017 are coming out this fall. I think I want one. However, after perusing the web, it seems that getting one isn't as easy as it sounds. You have to get on a list, order one, and wait for them to build it. And other than colors, there isn't really any information about options, configurations, etc. yet. Anyone here have any more insight into the process? I bought a used f150 with 113k on it. I wasn't expecting a new truck ownership experience with it, but the damn thing has been so unreliable able and costly that I'll never own another one again. It has been the shop A LOT since I got it and every trip has been right around $1000, and I'm not done yet. This truck has been the worst financial decision I have ever made. If you don't mind leasing a raptor as a toy, then by all means get one. Ownership in the long term? No thanks. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 6:43:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I bought a used f150 with 113k on it. I wasn't expecting a new truck ownership experience with it, but the damn thing has been so unreliable able and costly that I'll never own another one again. It has been the shop A LOT since I got it and every trip has been right around $1000, and I'm not done yet. This truck has been the worst financial decision I have ever made. If you don't mind leasing a raptor as a toy, then by all means get one. Ownership in the long term? No thanks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've always loved the raptor but could never afford one. Now I'm in a position to get one, and the new 2017 are coming out this fall. I think I want one. However, after perusing the web, it seems that getting one isn't as easy as it sounds. You have to get on a list, order one, and wait for them to build it. And other than colors, there isn't really any information about options, configurations, etc. yet. Anyone here have any more insight into the process? I bought a used f150 with 113k on it. I wasn't expecting a new truck ownership experience with it, but the damn thing has been so unreliable able and costly that I'll never own another one again. It has been the shop A LOT since I got it and every trip has been right around $1000, and I'm not done yet. This truck has been the worst financial decision I have ever made. If you don't mind leasing a raptor as a toy, then by all means get one. Ownership in the long term? No thanks. What year is your truck? PO maintenance plays a big part. |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 7:01:33 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The amount of power that will be able to be extracted now that running out of fuel is no longer an issue will be impressive I'm sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The new Raptor with the 3.5 is much quicker than the 6.2L trucks (according to a lil' birdy or something), and will have much more potential now that it has 2 fuel systems. The new Raptor is pretty kick ass from what I've seen. The port and direct injection should also eliminate the valve coking that's problematic for DI motors. It'd be interesting to see how the fuel delivery tables are setup The amount of power that will be able to be extracted now that running out of fuel is no longer an issue will be impressive I'm sure. What I'm wondering is the port injection running a significant portion of the engines fuleing needs or is it just enough to prevent intake deposits and to smooth idle? |
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Posted: 7/14/2016 11:11:26 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I'm wondering is the port injection running a significant portion of the engines fuleing needs or is it just enough to prevent intake deposits and to smooth idle? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The new Raptor with the 3.5 is much quicker than the 6.2L trucks (according to a lil' birdy or something), and will have much more potential now that it has 2 fuel systems. The new Raptor is pretty kick ass from what I've seen. The port and direct injection should also eliminate the valve coking that's problematic for DI motors. It'd be interesting to see how the fuel delivery tables are setup The amount of power that will be able to be extracted now that running out of fuel is no longer an issue will be impressive I'm sure. What I'm wondering is the port injection running a significant portion of the engines fuleing needs or is it just enough to prevent intake deposits and to smooth idle? Doubt it. The DI pump runs out of steam around 500whp. The Ford GT uses the same set up, which is how they're getting more power out of it. Ford embraces the aftermarket quite well with their EcoBoost line. I know they've talked about an HO variant as well. The turbos are pretty impressive from the factory, electronic wastegates and turbo speed sensor provisions. |
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Posted: 7/15/2016 4:03:02 AM EDT
[#28]
This thread really needs pics...
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Posted: 7/18/2016 10:08:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Looks like the F-150 order guide was released yesterday. I would imagine the pricing one would be today or tomorrow.
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Posted: 7/21/2016 7:39:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spot on. I paid under $40k for mine, and am thinking about selling it while the selling is good. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The prices for 1st gen Raptors are crazy. When they first came out and were $38k or so they were probably the best value in a truck. Spot on. I paid under $40k for mine, and am thinking about selling it while the selling is good. I got my '14 used one year ago with about 3,000 miles on it, and it went into service 11/2014. Having such exceptionally low miles and being a CPO, I got no bargain. The original window sticker price was $57,020. NADA lists it at $54,850 clean trade and $56,675 clean retail right now. |
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Posted: 7/26/2016 5:38:53 PM EDT
[#31]
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/2017-ford-f-150-raptor-starts-at-dollar49520-leaked-documents-reveal/ar-BBuRU6p?li=BBisPVf&ocid=spartandhp
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Posted: 7/28/2016 12:59:15 AM EDT
[#32]
No. But if you really want to do some prerunning. Just buy a used pre runner. You can get a good one for the price of the Raptor I would bet.
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:02:24 PM EDT
[#33]
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It will once current owners start dumping theirs for a new one.. Try the resale value of a 10yr old H1, some clean ones are selling for $160k+ that's $20+k over msrp 10yrs ago.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully it drives down the ridiculous resale value of the older Raptors when it comes out It will once current owners start dumping theirs for a new one.. Try the resale value of a 10yr old H1, some clean ones are selling for $160k+ that's $20+k over msrp 10yrs ago.... H1 and a raptor are two different creatures. The only h1 worth 160k is a new 06 alpha or custom build. 93-97.5 aren't worth 20k unless well kept. Who the hell wants a 12 volt Humvee anyway. |
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Posted: 7/29/2016 3:04:06 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 7/29/2016 10:37:20 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
H1 and a raptor are two different creatures. The only h1 worth 160k is a new 06 alpha or custom build. 93-97.5 aren't worth 20k unless well kept. Who the hell wants a 12 volt Humvee anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully it drives down the ridiculous resale value of the older Raptors when it comes out It will once current owners start dumping theirs for a new one.. Try the resale value of a 10yr old H1, some clean ones are selling for $160k+ that's $20+k over msrp 10yrs ago.... H1 and a raptor are two different creatures. The only h1 worth 160k is a new 06 alpha or custom build. 93-97.5 aren't worth 20k unless well kept. Who the hell wants a 12 volt Humvee anyway. LOL do tell, both are mine EDIT: just noticed your user name, you hang out at hummer network HML? 
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Posted: 7/30/2016 12:00:06 AM EDT
[#36]
I ordered one as well Avalanche grey like the below, long wait ahead.
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