User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 5:18:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What would I have done? Dropped the tank. That being said, if I decided I absolutely had to have an access hole, I would have cut one, and them went to the salvage yard and cut a slightly larger piece from a like vehicle, using it as the cover for that port. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Zebra312, how would you have designed it, aesthetically speaking, if you were going to do it? I think the OP was rational doing what he did. Zebra312 does not like the look of the modification, so I ask this. How could it be done? How should it be done? What would I have done? Dropped the tank. That being said, if I decided I absolutely had to have an access hole, I would have cut one, and them went to the salvage yard and cut a slightly larger piece from a like vehicle, using it as the cover for that port. Why drop the tank? Work smarter not harder. Also newer cars are engineered to make you have to take it in, the less maintenance you can do yourself the more the manufacturer stands to make (i.e. Dealerships and Parts) |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 5:21:42 PM EDT
[#2]
I have changed many in tank pumps, even some just like the one described here. Dropping the tank is not a difficult tank, even if full.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 5:30:05 PM EDT
[#3]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 6:59:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What would I have done? Dropped the tank. That being said, if I decided I absolutely had to have an access hole, I would have cut one, and them went to the salvage yard and cut a slightly larger piece from a like vehicle, using it as the cover for that port. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Zebra312, how would you have designed it, aesthetically speaking, if you were going to do it? I think the OP was rational doing what he did. Zebra312 does not like the look of the modification, so I ask this. How could it be done? How should it be done? What would I have done? Dropped the tank. That being said, if I decided I absolutely had to have an access hole, I would have cut one, and them went to the salvage yard and cut a slightly larger piece from a like vehicle, using it as the cover for that port. Not like that wasn't considered, but the floor is nice and thick and you would have a large lip/lump under the carpet to catch anything sliding in. Gosh, the aesthetics alone would cause your head to explode. Plus the wasted time to go to a junk yard. This isn't my first rodeo with replacing the fuel pump or needing and building an access hole. I chose the much simpler and less time consuming option. I'll be dropping a 383 in soon, so I know another fuel pump will be in my future. Plus now it can be change with 3 hand tools on the side of the road if needed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:03:58 PM EDT
[#5]
Looks like Chevy 1997-2001 1500/2500
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:10:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Won't work on a Tahoe as the tank is in a different location. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If my pump goes bad, I will almost certainly be using this approach to gain access.. Me too might be soon that I want on a 98 Tahoe Won't work on a Tahoe as the tank is in a different location. Wait, you can.. http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/threads/cutting-an-access-panel-to-replace-fuel-pump.38956/ http://www.tahoeforum.com/showthread.php?t=526896 |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:11:16 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have changed many in tank pumps, even some just like the one described here. Dropping the tank is not a difficult tank, even if full. Dropping the tank is an order of magnitude more difficult a task than rolling the carpet back and removing four screws. The job goes from HOURS to minutes not to mention the reduced bodily wear and tear from not wrestling a fuel tank loose on your back under a motor vehicle. Work smarter not harder. You only have so much life to live and at the end of it all you'd like to have that time you spent swapping fuel pumps "right" back AND NOBODY will say of you after you're gone "he sure did make those automotive repairs right" |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:15:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropping ping the tank is an order of magnitude more difficult a task than rolling the carpet back and removing four screws. The job goes from HOURS to minutes not to mention the reduced bodily wear and tear from not wrestling a fuel tank loose on your back under a motor vehicle. Work smarter not harder. You only have so much life to live and at the end of it all you'd like to have that time you spent swapping fuel pumps "right" back AND NOBODY will say of you after you're gone "he sure did make those automotive repairs right" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have changed many in tank pumps, even some just like the one described here. Dropping the tank is not a difficult tank, even if full. Dropping ping the tank is an order of magnitude more difficult a task than rolling the carpet back and removing four screws. The job goes from HOURS to minutes not to mention the reduced bodily wear and tear from not wrestling a fuel tank loose on your back under a motor vehicle. Work smarter not harder. You only have so much life to live and at the end of it all you'd like to have that time you spent swapping fuel pumps "right" back AND NOBODY will say of you after you're gone "he sure did make those automotive repairs right" Exactly! But, there's always one... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:31:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Call it what you will...but no matter the cute terms or philosophical arguments, its still half assed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 7:37:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Call it what you will...but no matter the cute terms or philosophical arguments, its still half assed. There is no full assed way to fix a $2500 25 year old suburban |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 8:34:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is no full assed way to fix a $2500 25 year old suburban Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Call it what you will...but no matter the cute terms or philosophical arguments, its still half assed. There is no full assed way to fix a $2500 25 year old suburban Full ass would also be out back removing the rear axle in a f body to change the fuel pump, |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 8:37:14 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Call it what you will...but no matter the cute terms or philosophical arguments, its still half assed. Some work smart, you work harder. Unless you can come up with some valid reason other than GM didn't design it that way, you add nothing but your type A, I would know it's there BS. Wait, GM also designed the lower intake manifold gasket in Vortecs...  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 8:41:14 PM EDT
[#13]
If you read what I have typed, I dont have a huge issue with the access hole..not the way I would do it, but no grief for those who do. My issue was with the ridiculously shoddy manner in which it was performed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 8:55:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Hey Sundance - nice work! Your repair is commensurate with the value of the vehicle. We've got an old Chevy truck that we've done all kinds of rube goldberg repairs to. High beam switch on the floor, plumber's tape holding the gas tank up (the frame rusted out at the factory strap location), etc. Looks like American ingenuity to me!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 9:18:52 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you read what I have typed, I dont have a huge issue with the access hole..not the way I would do it, but no grief for those who do. My issue was with the ridiculously shoddy manner in which it was performed.  Jezus, you do have problems. I guess I should have gotten perfect welds for a piece that will never be seen. I should have also made it perfectly square. Oh fuck, I didn't color match the paint either....oh the horror. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 9:19:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There is no full assed way to fix a $2500 25 year old suburban Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Call it what you will...but no matter the cute terms or philosophical arguments, its still half assed. There is no full assed way to fix a $2500 25 year old suburban QFT 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 9:28:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jezus, you do have problems. I guess I should have gotten perfect welds for a piece that will never be seen. I should have also made it perfectly square. Oh fuck, I didn't color match the paint either....oh the horror.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you read what I have typed, I dont have a huge issue with the access hole..not the way I would do it, but no grief for those who do. My issue was with the ridiculously shoddy manner in which it was performed. Jezus, you do have problems. I guess I should have gotten perfect welds for a piece that will never be seen. I should have also made it perfectly square. Oh fuck, I didn't color match the paint either....oh the horror.
Maybe I do...but it takes only a minimum of additional time to do something right, over just doing it. Im out..rock on with your ride... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/4/2015 10:30:50 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe I do...but it takes only a minimum of additional time to do something right, over just doing it. Im out..rock on with your ride... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you read what I have typed, I dont have a huge issue with the access hole..not the way I would do it, but no grief for those who do. My issue was with the ridiculously shoddy manner in which it was performed. Jezus, you do have problems. I guess I should have gotten perfect welds for a piece that will never be seen. I should have also made it perfectly square. Oh fuck, I didn't color match the paint either....oh the horror.Maybe I do...but it takes only a minimum of additional time to do something right, over just doing it. Im out..rock on with your ride... Yeah, I should have wasted time to produced a show quality job for something that will never be seen.  Really, I should have wasted a ton more time and dropped the tank. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 12:54:04 AM EDT
[#19]
Well done OP. Dropping a tank is a pain in the ass by yourself without a lift as well as getting it strapped back up. Did you go oem with the new pump?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 2:08:16 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have changed many in tank pumps, even some just like the one described here. Dropping the tank is not a difficult tank, even if full. How do you manage the weight and keep it in balance as you lower it down? How much working room is there once it is down? On my truck, even with one end up on stands, there's only about 12" between the floor pan and the cement slab (driveway). Please do not tell me you have a lift with plenty of working room beneath the vehicle. I don't have one of those. Even if you hoist the vehicle, how do you safely and controllably lower the tank? By the way, you never finished describing how you'd have done it. You said you'd go get a piece of floor pan from the scrap yard... but then what? Above questions are honest solicitation of alternative approaches, as I said, I may need to do mine ( a 1993 Ford Explorer). |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 2:49:23 AM EDT
[#21]
Why make another part and pay somebody to design a panel when you can save $2.88 on every vehicle by not doing it. I asked the same thing when I had to run an electrical plug to the block heater on my Ford diesel. It would have taken Ford less than 2 minutes and $5 to add a plug on the assembly line, yet cost me $30 and 45 minutes of my day....dealership cost with labor was $150 or so. I probably would have done the same thing as the OP. I know this is a common "repair" in YJ and TJ Wranglers, and have seen quite a few. I did it the hard way in a '93 Sahara, was an absolute PITA to drop the tank, and its only a 20 gallon plastic tank. I'm not sure how Jeep managed to get everything in the way of the tank, but they did. I was this ---><--- close to cutting the exhaust completely out of the way, but I finally got it dropped and remounted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 2:55:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Facking GM truck pumps! I wish customers would let me get away with that approach. How long are they supposed to last? I've got one on a 2006 GMC with 280k miles. No problems yet. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 8:38:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well done OP. Dropping a tank is a pain in the ass by yourself without a lift as well as getting it strapped back up. Did you go oem with the new pump? Delphi! No Airtex here. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 8:42:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long are they supposed to last? I've got one on a 2006 GMC with 280k miles. No problems yet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Facking GM truck pumps! I wish customers would let me get away with that approach. How long are they supposed to last? I've got one on a 2006 GMC with 280k miles. No problems yet. You might have the record.... My average on different trucks has bee 125K |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 8:46:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Gonna do this to my Camaro when it comes time to upgrade the fuel pump. Smart move OP, although I think i'll do a hinged design on mine.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 9:17:00 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you manage the weight and keep it in balance as you lower it down? I would have need another person or two since it was over half full. Shops use a tranny lift and straps. Plus I have a large heavy tank skid plate that makes it a larger PITA. How much working room is there once it is down? On my truck, even with one end up on stands, there's only about 12" between the floor pan and the cement slab (driveway). Just enough, but the problem is you have to get up over the tank a release electrical and hose connections. The other pain was the new pump required a new electrical harness to be spiced in,and I hate the little crimp connections, so I soldered the connections. Been a pain to do that on my back. Please do not tell me you have a lift with plenty of working room beneath the vehicle. I don't have one of those. Even if you hoist the vehicle, how do you safely and controllably lower the tank? See above By the way, you never finished describing how you'd have done it. You said you'd go get a piece of floor pan from the scrap yard... but then what? The Chevy floor pan is doubled walled as I had said before and would leave a huge lump in the cargo floor if you tried to over lap the hole. He posted he would have gotten a larger piece from the junk yard and half assed gehttoed it by laying it over the hole like a meth addict would do it so it has a visually unpalatable large lump in plain view. Above questions are honest solicitation of alternative approaches, as I said, I may need to do mine ( a 1993 Ford Explorer). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have changed many in tank pumps, even some just like the one described here. Dropping the tank is not a difficult tank, even if full. How do you manage the weight and keep it in balance as you lower it down? I would have need another person or two since it was over half full. Shops use a tranny lift and straps. Plus I have a large heavy tank skid plate that makes it a larger PITA. How much working room is there once it is down? On my truck, even with one end up on stands, there's only about 12" between the floor pan and the cement slab (driveway). Just enough, but the problem is you have to get up over the tank a release electrical and hose connections. The other pain was the new pump required a new electrical harness to be spiced in,and I hate the little crimp connections, so I soldered the connections. Been a pain to do that on my back. Please do not tell me you have a lift with plenty of working room beneath the vehicle. I don't have one of those. Even if you hoist the vehicle, how do you safely and controllably lower the tank? See above By the way, you never finished describing how you'd have done it. You said you'd go get a piece of floor pan from the scrap yard... but then what? The Chevy floor pan is doubled walled as I had said before and would leave a huge lump in the cargo floor if you tried to over lap the hole. He posted he would have gotten a larger piece from the junk yard and half assed gehttoed it by laying it over the hole like a meth addict would do it so it has a visually unpalatable large lump in plain view. Above questions are honest solicitation of alternative approaches, as I said, I may need to do mine ( a 1993 Ford Explorer). First gen explorer http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182160&highlight=access+panel+fuel+pump |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 9:18:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gonna do this to my Camaro when it comes time to upgrade the fuel pump. Smart move OP, although I think i'll do a hinged design on mine. F bodies you gotta drop the axle on some years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 12:40:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Delphi! No Airtex here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Well done OP. Dropping a tank is a pain in the ass by yourself without a lift as well as getting it strapped back up. Did you go oem with the new pump? Delphi! No Airtex here. Hell yea! The more pain in the ass a part is to replace, I replace it with a quality part. Buy once, cry once. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 3:46:40 PM EDT
[#29]
thats how you replace flap motors in the HVAC on a dodge truck. Cut them out and duct tape the cut pieces back in.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 3:53:57 PM EDT
[#30]
Dumb question, but how did you know where to cut the hole?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 3:57:25 PM EDT
[#31]
93 ford Taurus, Have to take the f'n dash out, discharge the AC to replace the heater core. WTF! $800-$900 job t the dealer years ago.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 4:10:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont have a huge issue with the access hole...but the way it was done is terrible. I understand form follows function, blah blah....but I prefer my vehicles not appear to have had a meth addict work on them. does not post pictures of own work. Don't tell me, your other vehicle is a slightly higher horse? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 4:29:21 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is critical of others work... does not post pictures of own work. Don't tell me, your other vehicle is a slightly higher horse? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I dont have a huge issue with the access hole...but the way it was done is terrible. I understand form follows function, blah blah....but I prefer my vehicles not appear to have had a meth addict work on them. does not post pictures of own work. Don't tell me, your other vehicle is a slightly higher horse? Im not sure what that even means.... But no, I dont have photos of a replaced fuel pump on a GM truck. Those that I have done were done by dropping the tank, so the photos would show, well, nothing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 6:11:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dumb question, but how did you know where to cut the hole?  You can use a mirror to see the pump location and get any measurements needed. Plus I'm not the first person to do this....many threads on GM truck sites and youtube videos. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 9:47:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
93 ford Taurus, Have to take the f'n dash out, discharge the AC to replace the heater core. WTF! $800-$900 job t the dealer years ago. I hate to tell ya, but that is not uncommon in the auto/truck world. Pulling a dash really isn't that bad to do..... The factory puts it in in one piece and it comes out the same way. It's surprising how few fasteners there really are holding it in. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 10:34:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A bigger question is why they put the pumps in the tank in the first place. Why not accessible from the engine compartment or undercarriage? |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/5/2015 10:56:20 PM EDT
[#37]
The fuel in the tank keep the pump motors cool and its less force on the motor to push fuel rather than pull it Plus, modern fuel injected vehicles run much higher pressures compared with old carb motors. I know my YJ is around 38psi at the fuel rail, whereas carbs see less than 10 psi (usually 3-4psi). It would take a pretty decent underhood pump to pull and maintain that kind of PSI, although changing out a fuel pump in the engine bay is far easier. Of course, if they used them in modern vehicles, it would be hidden under the alternator, tucked away behind a crossmember, and would require one motor mount removed and fan belt off to get to... |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 12:24:26 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plus, modern fuel injected vehicles run much higher pressures compared with old carb motors. I know my YJ is around 38psi at the fuel rail, whereas carbs see less than 10 psi (usually 3-4psi). It would take a pretty decent underhood pump to pull and maintain that kind of PSI, although changing out a fuel pump in the engine bay is far easier. Of course, if they used them in modern vehicles, it would be hidden under the alternator, tucked away behind a crossmember, and would require one motor mount removed and fan belt off to get to... Quote HistoryQuoted: The fuel in the tank keep the pump motors cool and its less force on the motor to push fuel rather than pull it Plus, modern fuel injected vehicles run much higher pressures compared with old carb motors. I know my YJ is around 38psi at the fuel rail, whereas carbs see less than 10 psi (usually 3-4psi). It would take a pretty decent underhood pump to pull and maintain that kind of PSI, although changing out a fuel pump in the engine bay is far easier. Of course, if they used them in modern vehicles, it would be hidden under the alternator, tucked away behind a crossmember, and would require one motor mount removed and fan belt off to get to... The pump I replaced was bleeding off pressure after shut down, must have been a check ball in the pump, so I had to cycle the key to prime the pump....of course the wife would just crank it, stop and crank it again. This started a year ago or so before the pump started to fail. The hitting a rubber mallet on the tank method to get the pump running does actually work.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 7:22:03 PM EDT
[#39]
<rant mode on>
You must design systems to be easily maintainable. Any time you do not do this, you are making a mistake. I would put the fuel pump external to the tank. If you need more than air cooling and conductive cooling (via the fuel) of the pump and motor, you are doing something wrong. If there is a concern about damage to the pump, put it behind a "skid plate". The fuel lines are not armored in any way and they run beneath the car, so putting the pump outside the tank should also not be a problem. You could always put a check valve to ensure fuel leakage was very near zero if a fuel line were cut or the pump were damaged. So much of an automobile is over-designed and under-engineered. That is, too much effort is put into aesthetics (design) and not enough is put into engineering the systems for things like maintainability, reliability, etc. <rant mode off> |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 7:56:18 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <rant mode on> You must design systems to be easily maintainable. Any time you do not do this, you are making a mistake. I would put the fuel pump external to the tank. Then you would need a larger, more expensive pump, and the cost would be huge for the fleet of vehicles for sale. If you need more than air cooling and conductive cooling (via the fuel) of the pump and motor, you are doing something wrong. The cooling is a side benefit I'm sure, The main point of in tank is using a smaller pump. If there is a concern about damage to the pump, put it behind a "skid plate". The fuel lines are not armored in any way and they run beneath the car, so putting the pump outside the tank should also not be a problem. Except for that whole now you need a suck fuel out instead of push it, which means that now fuel lines and the tank must be built to facilitate that over the life of the vehicle. I.E. soft lines have to be thicker and more expensive so they don't collapse. You could always put a check valve to ensure fuel leakage was very near zero if a fuel line were cut or the pump were damaged. So much of an automobile is over-designed and under-engineered. That is, too much effort is put into aesthetics (design) and not enough is put into engineering the systems for things like maintainability, reliability, etc. Or, they are engineered because people that make the systems understand how to get the most bang for the buck, and the systems are designed around the life cycle of the vehicle. <rant mode off> |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 8:27:02 PM EDT
[#41]
I get both sides but you know what?
Fuck automotive Polly prissy pants journalists. I would much prefer acess to vital systems than the current measure of automotive excellence which seems to boil down to little more than who can make a car with the fewest exposed screw heads and how hard can they make it ride (aka handling) |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 8:33:16 PM EDT
[#42]
That's some fine ethnic engineering, right there.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 9:21:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Should have used a plasma cutter.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 9:28:11 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If my pump goes bad, I will almost certainly be using this approach to gain access.. Be careful. I had a 1997 Tahoe with a fuel pump issue a long time ago. Figured I'd do the same thing, but finally wound up dropping the tank (IIRC I had to drop the damn driveshaft too for some reason to get that tank down) Good thing - the gasket was leaking and the top of the tank was wet with gasoline. Showering it with sparks from a cutoff wheel would have ended....poorly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 10:02:43 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The manufacturer intended the tank be dropped for this repair...i.e., they didnt engineer anything incorrectly. Is it a pain in the ass? Sometimes....but it beats a jerry rigged solution like that. There's no reason to have to drop the tank for this repair. I personally would have cut my patch about 2" bigger all the way around, made a gasket, and used 1/4-turn fasteners to hold it in place, but an access panel from the factory makes a lot more sense than having to drop the tank when the lines and wiring won't let it drop far enough to get your arm up in there to disconnect them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 10:08:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good eye...99 Suburban. Had to change out their shitty designed plug too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
what make/model/year Good eye...99 Suburban. Had to change out their shitty designed plug too. I did a '99 Sub once as well, bought just the pump itself to install on the OEM sender, $20 vs $200 is a no-brainer. The OEM sender had webbing between the plastic pipes that made using the hose removal tool nearly impossible, and while trying to wiggle it into the correct orientation with the tank dropped just far enough to keep strain off the hoses, the damn plastic nipple snapped. There's just no fucking reason to have to dick around with dropping a tank to change a fuel pump. And they should have drains on the bottom, just like medium & heavy duty trucks do. I have a 40 gallon tank that's eventually going into my '91 F350, and it has a nice thick sump at the bottom that's just begging for a drain plug. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 11:16:50 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cost:benefit Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
<rant mode on> You must design systems to be easily maintainable. Any time you do not do this, you are making a mistake. I would put the fuel pump external to the tank. Then you would need a larger, more expensive pump, and the cost would be huge for the fleet of vehicles for sale. If you need more than air cooling and conductive cooling (via the fuel) of the pump and motor, you are doing something wrong. The cooling is a side benefit I'm sure, The main point of in tank is using a smaller pump. If there is a concern about damage to the pump, put it behind a "skid plate". The fuel lines are not armored in any way and they run beneath the car, so putting the pump outside the tank should also not be a problem. Except for that whole now you need a suck fuel out instead of push it, which means that now fuel lines and the tank must be built to facilitate that over the life of the vehicle. I.E. soft lines have to be thicker and more expensive so they don't collapse. You could always put a check valve to ensure fuel leakage was very near zero if a fuel line were cut or the pump were damaged. So much of an automobile is over-designed and under-engineered. That is, too much effort is put into aesthetics (design) and not enough is put into engineering the systems for things like maintainability, reliability, etc. Or, they are engineered because people that make the systems understand how to get the most bang for the buck, and the systems are designed around the life cycle of the vehicle. <rant mode off> I think you don't understand the way I'd do it. An exterior pump could still be gravity fed and push the fuel. Plus my fuel lines are all hard tubing, not soft elastomers. Don't try to argue cost when the they want ~$1k to replace a fuel pump and have to drop the tank to do it. Don't try to argue life cycle cost when this is the discussion of a problem maintaining the vehicle so it can achieve the expected lifetime. This is a classic apologist post. Still, I'm not here to argue about the way others would do it but it does hack me off the way the manufacturer did it. Besides, having the OEM add an access panel in lieu of an exterior pump is also a good option. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 11:21:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Be careful. I had a 1997 Tahoe with a fuel pump issue a long time ago. Figured I'd do the same thing, but finally wound up dropping the tank (IIRC I had to drop the damn driveshaft too for some reason to get that tank down) Good thing - the gasket was leaking and the top of the tank was wet with gasoline. Showering it with sparks from a cutoff wheel would have ended....poorly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If my pump goes bad, I will almost certainly be using this approach to gain access.. Be careful. I had a 1997 Tahoe with a fuel pump issue a long time ago. Figured I'd do the same thing, but finally wound up dropping the tank (IIRC I had to drop the damn driveshaft too for some reason to get that tank down) Good thing - the gasket was leaking and the top of the tank was wet with gasoline. Showering it with sparks from a cutoff wheel would have ended....poorly. I was thinking a powered nibbler is the way go - no sparks. Still, if I use a cut off wheel, I'll have to remember to check for wetness/leaks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 11:44:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Be careful. I had a 1997 Tahoe with a fuel pump issue a long time ago. Figured I'd do the same thing, but finally wound up dropping the tank (IIRC I had to drop the damn driveshaft too for some reason to get that tank down) Good thing - the gasket was leaking and the top of the tank was wet with gasoline. Showering it with sparks from a cutoff wheel would have ended....poorly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If my pump goes bad, I will almost certainly be using this approach to gain access.. Be careful. I had a 1997 Tahoe with a fuel pump issue a long time ago. Figured I'd do the same thing, but finally wound up dropping the tank (IIRC I had to drop the damn driveshaft too for some reason to get that tank down) Good thing - the gasket was leaking and the top of the tank was wet with gasoline. Showering it with sparks from a cutoff wheel would have ended....poorly. That's what a mirror is for or you can use something like this:  |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/6/2015 11:46:11 PM EDT
[#50]
My toyota 4runner has it..
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
