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Posted: 2/25/2015 3:27:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
My old pickup has a dana 60 with 3.54 gears. I live in a pretty hilly area and it really feels like it's got no power. I either have to go 6-7mph over the speed or shift down to 3rd to make it up the hills. But then I'm turning about 2200 to keep up with traffic. Hills are to close together to shift back and forth. My dads chevy has 4.10 gears in the back and it handles these hills a lot better than my truck. Even though they make close to the same power. Will having my axle regeared help me out? How big of a change can I expect? I do 85% of my driving in town and I have overdrive so highway mpg isn't a major factor. The truck also has a granny gear and I don't own anything heavier than the truck itself so as far towing power I don't think I will benefit from a gear change very much in that respect. What do you guys think? Is my rear end geared to high? How much should it cost to get this done and how long would I have to be without my vehicle? Is it worth spending the money?Truck is a 2 wd btw. I was quoted $900 labor for a Sterling 10.25 rear. Gear set is about $400. I'm not gonna pay that much money, that is for sure. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:06:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Jeez! I could find and bolt on another trucks axle for that!
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:41:14 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was quoted $900 labor for a Sterling 10.25 rear. Gear set is about $400. I'm not gonna pay that much money, that is for sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My old pickup has a dana 60 with 3.54 gears. I live in a pretty hilly area and it really feels like it's got no power. I either have to go 6-7mph over the speed or shift down to 3rd to make it up the hills. But then I'm turning about 2200 to keep up with traffic. Hills are to close together to shift back and forth. My dads chevy has 4.10 gears in the back and it handles these hills a lot better than my truck. Even though they make close to the same power. Will having my axle regeared help me out? How big of a change can I expect? I do 85% of my driving in town and I have overdrive so highway mpg isn't a major factor. The truck also has a granny gear and I don't own anything heavier than the truck itself so as far towing power I don't think I will benefit from a gear change very much in that respect. What do you guys think? Is my rear end geared to high? How much should it cost to get this done and how long would I have to be without my vehicle? Is it worth spending the money?Truck is a 2 wd btw. I was quoted $900 labor for a Sterling 10.25 rear. Gear set is about $400. I'm not gonna pay that much money, that is for sure. I'm on my phone but that sure seem high to me. OP I would check around and see what quotes you get. Remember if your truck is four wheel drive you'll need to do both ends. Even if it is expensive keep in mind it is a one shot deal that gives you a more usable vehicle. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:45:37 AM EDT
[#4]
What size tires do you have on this thing?
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:57:27 AM EDT
[#5]
The quote itself is probably a tinny bit high, I would expect $600 or so for parts and labor.
But you can go to a junk yard and pull a rear end for probably a hundred or two. 99.95% of junkyard rear ends are perfectly fine. Just look the brakes and wiggle the pinion around before taking it home. What is the truck exactly, sounds like an old ford or dodge. Have a friend with a welder? If so you can make just a lot any axle with the right width work for you. If you are going through the trouble you need to jump .5 at least in ratio to see a noticeable difference. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 11:46:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Gears are expensive because they scare people. Replacing gears and pinion and shimming them scare the crap out of people. Thats why shops charge so much. Go around and ask guys with lifted anything, i bet 1 out of 15 to 20 regeared. The reason most of the time regearing bothing ends costs more than their lift and tires combined.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 12:38:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gears are expensive because they scare people. Replacing gears and pinion and shimming them scare the crap out of people. Thats why shops charge so much. Go around and ask guys with lifted anything, i bet 1 out of 15 to 20 regeared. The reason most of the time regearing bothing ends costs more than their lift and tires combined. I think the main reason they don't swap gears is there is no need most of the time. Modern trucks have so much more power in addition to much better transmissions. Unless you are doing a drastic change it probably isn't needed. I went from stock 265's to 35x12.50's on my excursion and feel no need to re gear. If I towed a lot it might be a different story. I am however looking at moving up to 37's and if I do I will re gear for sure. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 1:29:20 PM EDT
[#8]
It would probably be cheaper to buy axles with the factory gear ratio of what you want.
Where did you get your quote from? And what model is the truck? 3.73 sounds more suitable than 4.10. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#9]
There's a shop here that's very proficient, they set up my axles for $200 in labor. I supplied the gearset and master install kit.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 8:49:32 PM EDT
[#10]
79 ford, I have 265's and literally just replaced the rear set so please don't say I should change tire size
 . What kind of shops should I aks about this? Most of the ones around me are just little change oil and wipers shops. I was expecting to pay 2-300, maybe 400. Why a 3.73? And as far as needing at least .5 change to make a difference, that would be 4.05 right? I only ask because the way I'm reading your post it seems like your saying 4.10 won't make a big difference.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:23:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
79 ford, I have 265's and literally just replaced the rear set so please don't say I should change tire size . What kind of shops should I aks about this? Most of the ones around me are just little change oil and wipers shops. I was expecting to pay 2-300, maybe 400. Why a 3.73? And as far as needing at least .5 change to make a difference, that would be 4.05 right? I only ask because the way I'm reading your post it seems like your saying 4.10 won't make a big difference.4.10 gears will make a helluva difference from a 3.54. If it's a 79 Ford anything, fuel mileage obviously isn't an issue
What part of the state are you in? There are a couple of guys in Tulsa that are pretty reasonable. Dana 60 stuff is expensive. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:37:22 PM EDT
[#12]
I can do tulsa, what would the turnaround be for a job like this?
Dana 60 rears are kinda plentiful right? What if I found another d60 and pulled the gears out? Then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping axles and all that crap? Could I do that without a ton of experience and a press? |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:42:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can do tulsa, what would the turnaround be for a job like this? Dana 60 rears are kinda plentiful right? What if I found another d60 and pulled the gears out? Then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping axles and all that crap? Could I do that without a ton of experience and a press? I've set up gears a few times in a garage. Never. Again. By the time you buy everything you need; press, crush sleeves, setup bearings, dials, etc. you've spent enough to have someone else do them. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 9:48:02 PM EDT
[#14]
What if I found another d60 and pulled the gears out? Then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping axles and all that crap? Could I do that without a ton of experience and a press? You could use the gear seat, but it won't be a "drop and drive" job. You still have to set your preload, shim, check for gear wear, etc. There are some very good articles online and YouTube regarding gear changing, and it isn't rocket science. That being said, it does require some basic knowledge and a few tools to get everything right...and if its not done correctly, you will be doing it again. I've slowly accumulated all the necessary tools to regear, just haven't actually done one yet. I have an extra 8.8 rearend laying around that I've thought about doing, just for the learning experience. My '94 YJ has 3.73 gears, and instead of regearing, I simply picked up a set of axles in 4.10 (D30 front and 8.8 rear) to use. Its cheaper this way, and setting up an 8.8 for a YJ isn't all that difficult. Nevertheless, I plan on figuring out regearing very soon! eta: Not every shop/mechanic can do regearing, buddy of mine found out the hard way. If you do decide to pay someone, do your due diligence and make sure they actually know what they are doing. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 10:10:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Honestly, I'd look at the engine's tune first, because if the truck is empty and you're not lugging the engine even before you hit the hills, you shouldn't have to downshift to make them. Even a 300 I6 that's been tuned up recently, timed right, and isn't just plain worn out should have no problem. 3.54s and 3.73s are the perfect general-purpose gears, you're not winding the engine up on flat ground like with 4.10s and you've got much better power for the hills than with 3.08s. I owned a couple late-70s Dodges with 318s, 3.54s, and 31" tires when I was stationed at Ft Sill, one a 4-speed w/granny and the other an automatic, and never had any problems with hills. (my '97 Ram 1500 4x4 w/5.2l, auto, and 3.54s sucked balls, though, with less power and worse mileage than either of the older ones.) Even in ME and NH I rarely had to downshift on hills with my '85 K10 w/6.2l diesel & 3.08s, basically only on really long hills or when I was towing/hauling.
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Posted: 2/25/2015 10:14:33 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can do tulsa, what would the turnaround be for a job like this? Dana 60 rears are kinda plentiful right? What if I found another d60 and pulled the gears out? Then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping axles and all that crap? Could I do that without a ton of experience and a press? If you found a Dana 60 with 4.10's chances are it would be easier to swap the yoke (if needed) and throw it under your truck! Axle Transmission and Transfer. He's on North Lewis in Tulsa. Richard has been around for a long time and does good work. Danny's Differential on south Sheridan in Tulsa. I've known Danny for a long time and he does good work too. Just call them and see what their turnaround time is and what it'll cost you. I've done 9" Fords and some 8 3/4" Chryslers. Never touched a Dana 60. |
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Posted: 2/25/2015 10:34:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Hey thanks guys! I might look at some yards around here for yokes then! If I can't find anything I'll look the shops you mentioned, if my budget permits you just gave them some work. It'll take me awhile though, there's some other stuff I need to get done first. As far as a tune up, I've rebuilt carb, changed plugs, distributor, tuned the carb, installed an electric choke, and timed it right. It's a pud 400 from the middle of a smog era. So it doesn't make lots of power. I'm shifting from a 1.00:1 gear down to a 1.70:1 gear. Like I said it'll take the hills in the direct line (4th) at 40-45 fine, but at 35 at about the middle of the hill I'm down to 30 and it only gets steeper from there. It's only 2 hills I have to down shift on, and they aren't exactly small. One is the steepest hill I know about around here. It handles the other shorter hills fine. Disadvantages to living on a little mountain I guess
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Posted: 2/25/2015 10:37:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can do tulsa, what would the turnaround be for a job like this? Dana 60 rears are kinda plentiful right? What if I found another d60 and pulled the gears out? Then I wouldn't have to worry about swapping axles and all that crap? Could I do that without a ton of experience and a press? If you do end up pulling a set of used gears from another rearend, measure the backlash before you take them out and set it the same in the new housing. Used gears have had many years to get friendly with each other and setting the backlash to factory new specs can lead to a howling gear set. Set them where they were in their original housing. But swapping the whole housing would be an easier task, by the time you strip two of them down and reassemble the one you're going to use. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 12:09:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey thanks guys! I might look at some yards around here for yokes then! If I can't find anything I'll look the shops you mentioned, if my budget permits you just gave them some work. It'll take me awhile though, there's some other stuff I need to get done first. As far as a tune up, I've rebuilt carb, changed plugs, distributor, tuned the carb, installed an electric choke, and timed it right. It's a pud 400 from the middle of a smog era. So it doesn't make lots of power. I'm shifting from a 1.00:1 gear down to a 1.70:1 gear. Like I said it'll take the hills in the direct line (4th) at 40-45 fine, but at 35 at about the middle of the hill I'm down to 30 and it only gets steeper from there. It's only 2 hills I have to down shift on, and they aren't exactly small. One is the steepest hill I know about around here. It handles the other shorter hills fine. Disadvantages to living on a little mountain I guess Well, 30 is pretty much lugging it for 4th gear, you're doing what, maybe 11-1200rpms at most? I can do that in my diesel, but I'm also making ~385 lb-ft @ 1400. Your peak torque is probably around 2200-2400. Downshifting on 2 hills just sounds like less of a hassle than swapping rear axles (not much of a hassle) or regearing (more of one) and having your rpm be 17% higher for the same road speed. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 5:16:46 AM EDT
[#20]
79 with overdrive? What motor/trans?
Get a 4.10 rear at the jy. About an hour to swap and you're set. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:05:12 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the main reason they don't swap gears is there is no need most of the time. Modern trucks have so much more power in addition to much better transmissions. Unless you are doing a drastic change it probably isn't needed. I went from stock 265's to 35x12.50's on my excursion and feel no need to re gear. If I towed a lot it might be a different story. I am however looking at moving up to 37's and if I do I will re gear for sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gears are expensive because they scare people. Replacing gears and pinion and shimming them scare the crap out of people. Thats why shops charge so much. Go around and ask guys with lifted anything, i bet 1 out of 15 to 20 regeared. The reason most of the time regearing bothing ends costs more than their lift and tires combined. I think the main reason they don't swap gears is there is no need most of the time. Modern trucks have so much more power in addition to much better transmissions. Unless you are doing a drastic change it probably isn't needed. I went from stock 265's to 35x12.50's on my excursion and feel no need to re gear. If I towed a lot it might be a different story. I am however looking at moving up to 37's and if I do I will re gear for sure. True. The speedo should atleast be recalibrated and that can take alot of lag out. Like my f150 went from 32.5 stock to 35's. With stock 3.73 gears using the formula 3.93 should put it back to stock but they dont make 3.93. The closest is 4.10 which is good for the extra weight. Alot pf guys say 4.56 for that switch bit i dont haul and have no need to stop light drag race or smoke the tires. |
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Posted: 2/26/2015 7:13:34 PM EDT
[#22]
400 ford with a nv4500. I didn't do the switch. I float from 3rd to 4th at 30-31. On flat ground. It's not just the hills, it feels like I'm having to give it a lot of throttle to get it rolling, especially in inclines, there are three stop lights that I have to stop at on the way to work. All on inclines and I'm sick of have to run the damn up to 2,000 just to keep up with traffic from a stop. I know the 400 doesn't make a lot of power but it's not a lack of that. Just drives like it's geared way high. I can roll 90mph at like 2200, yet again on flat ground.
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Posted: 2/26/2015 10:09:36 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
79 ford, I have 265's and literally just replaced the rear set so please don't say I should change tire size . What kind of shops should I aks about this? Most of the ones around me are just little change oil and wipers shops. I was expecting to pay 2-300, maybe 400. Why a 3.73? And as far as needing at least .5 change to make a difference, that would be 4.05 right? I only ask because the way I'm reading your post it seems like your saying 4.10 won't make a big difference.I am basically saying a switch from .54 to.73 isn't enough to really justify the effort. It's hardly noticeable. So yes, 4.10s is what I would look for. Usually a shop will do a set for $200 or so plus parts. So $500-$600 is normal. I would go to a junk yard and find an axle with 4.10s, make sure it's ok, and swap the entire assembly in. Change the oil, check the brakes, and run it. You could probably find a rear end for $100-$200. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 9:07:16 AM EDT
[#24]
My truck's driveline behind the engine is almost identical to yours - ZF 5-speed, 3.54 gears, and 235/85-16 tires - so I'll just use my numbers. At 30mph in 4th gear (1:1) I'm turning 1125rpm. With 4.11s that'd change to 1300. You'd still be out of your powerband with 4.11s. Depending on the hill, if I'm caught napping I sometimes have to downshift my diesel to keep from lugging it and I've got a lot more torque on tap. My engine (7.3l IDI) revs about as slowly as yours, too. I also had the exact same truck but with 4.09s and only very seldom found them to be superior to the 3.54s I have now. My ZF has a very tall reverse gear (as reverse gears go) and the lower speed at idle with 4.09s made backing trailers easier. I still don't think regearing to just 4.09 is going to give you what you want, because it's not solely or even mostly a gearing issue. You're trying to operate your engine in a regime where it makes little torque and can't increase rpm quickly.
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Posted: 2/28/2015 2:47:45 PM EDT
[#25]
I think the 4.10's would work well in your situation but I've been thinking back on the old 400.....I've had a little experience with the 400 in a 78 Bronco. Tuned to factory specs, it was a pig. They tend to like just a little more timing advance. I still do the old stuff by ear and feel. Maybe bump your timing up a little and go find your hill. I'd run it up until I found my spark knock, and back it down from there until it went away.
I'm old school on carbureted engines, can't do that at work with the new diesel engines. Stupid computers
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Posted: 2/28/2015 7:27:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the 4.10's would work well in your situation but I've been thinking back on the old 400.....I've had a little experience with the 400 in a 78 Bronco. Tuned to factory specs, it was a pig. They tend to like just a little more timing advance. I still do the old stuff by ear and feel. Maybe bump your timing up a little and go find your hill. I'd run it up until I found my spark knock, and back it down from there until it went away. I'm old school on carbureted engines, can't do that at work with the new diesel engines. Stupid computers I'm gonna advance timing when it gets above stupidly cold for awhile. A couple weeks ago I bought a timing light and and timed it. 25 degrees before or after tdc. I timed it becuase it would diesiel pretty bad about 20% of the time and 1500-2000 it would lose power and then shoot back to life. I timed it to 10 degrees btdc as the sticker on the valve cover instructs. I'll advance further when I can go outside without changing colors. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 10:29:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the 4.10's would work well in your situation but I've been thinking back on the old 400.....I've had a little experience with the 400 in a 78 Bronco. Tuned to factory specs, it was a pig. They tend to like just a little more timing advance. I still do the old stuff by ear and feel. Maybe bump your timing up a little and go find your hill. I'd run it up until I found my spark knock, and back it down from there until it went away. I'm old school on carbureted engines, can't do that at work with the new diesel engines. Stupid computers Yep, or hook up a vacuum gauge to a source of manifold vacuum, turn the distributor till you get the highest vacuum reading, then back off 1" Hg on the gauge and lock it down. |
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Posted: 2/28/2015 11:59:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Out of curiosity, how many miles does the old 400 have on it?
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Posted: 3/4/2015 12:41:10 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Out of curiosity, how many miles does the old 400 have on it? Well, I'm at 56,000 right now, but I'm pretty sure it's rolled over at least once. Also, my speedo doesn't work for awhile when I first start the truck, if it's cold out ot might not work for a couple of miles down the road. I wonder if the speedo not working would also make the odometer not function as well? I don't know. So anywhere around 156,000. I've replaced all plugs, distributor, rebuilt carb, resealed gaskets between carb and spacer, then spacer and manifold, and retimed it. I'm gonna look at the timing chain soon. Apparently I may be able to squeeze out a little more power out of resetting that. I'm pretty sure the engine is running about as well as its going to with the stock bottom end. Weiand manifold and 4 barrel Ed btw |
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Posted: 3/4/2015 2:44:19 AM EDT
[#30]
At that mileage, if you can't get it timed to your satisfaction, you'll need a good timing set.
I've seen some of the 400's with the nylon cam gear and some with the steel one. If it's the nylon gear, it FO SHO needs replaced 
ETA: Those bottom ends are stout on those old engines. |
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