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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:09:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Just purchased a 4-dr Sahara with manual transmission. When driving on the highway, the engine/transmission seems sluggish. Driving in 5th gear is often problematic when driving up moderate inclines, requiring a downshift to 4th gear. I have about 1600 miles on the vehicle. While is has the 282 HP engine with 260 ft-lbs of torque, this seems unusual although it is my first Jeep. Any ideas, or is this commonplace? Thanks! Does it have 3.21 gear ratios? If so, that's your problem.. You probably should have optioned the 3.73 at the very least.. or bought the Rubicon with 4.10's standard on the manual transmission. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:21:54 PM EDT
[#2]
How big are your tires, and what brand are they?
Jeeps are surprisingly heavy, and have poor aerodynamics. They really, really could use another 70-100 lbs more of torque IMHO. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:24:47 PM EDT
[#3]
That is the most powerful stock jeep ever made. What if any mods does it have? And like posted above what gearing does it have?
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Posted: 10/27/2014 6:37:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is the most powerful stock jeep ever made. What if any mods does it have? And like posted above what gearing does it have? I understand that fully; I stand by my statement though, it still needs more engine. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 9:27:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How big are your tires, and what brand are they? Jeeps are surprisingly heavy, and have poor aerodynamics. They really, really could use another 70-100 lbs more of torque IMHO.  your post made me look it up. That's 285 HP at 6,500 rpm.
The HP curve I see says 150 HP at 3,200 RPM. OP you need boost. |
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Posted: 10/27/2014 9:53:31 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I understand that fully; I stand by my statement though, it still needs more engine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is the most powerful stock jeep ever made. What if any mods does it have? And like posted above what gearing does it have? I understand that fully; I stand by my statement though, it still needs more engine. Answer the other questions. I have a lower powered 2010 JK non u and have no issues and only weigh about 500 pounds less. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 6:26:56 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm with the poster above, what is your gearing? I have a 14 Rubicon manual w/ 4.10's and it moves pretty well for it's size.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 6:51:17 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your post made me look it up. That's 285 HP at 6,500 rpm.
The HP curve I see says 150 HP at 3,200 RPM. OP you need boost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How big are your tires, and what brand are they? Jeeps are surprisingly heavy, and have poor aerodynamics. They really, really could use another 70-100 lbs more of torque IMHO. your post made me look it up. That's 285 HP at 6,500 rpm.
The HP curve I see says 150 HP at 3,200 RPM. OP you need boost. This is the issue. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:15:28 AM EDT
[#9]
Heavy wheels/tires can rob a lot of HP.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:21:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
your post made me look it up. That's 285 HP at 6,500 rpm.
The HP curve I see says 150 HP at 3,200 RPM. OP you need boost. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How big are your tires, and what brand are they? Jeeps are surprisingly heavy, and have poor aerodynamics. They really, really could use another 70-100 lbs more of torque IMHO. your post made me look it up. That's 285 HP at 6,500 rpm.
The HP curve I see says 150 HP at 3,200 RPM. OP you need boost. Minivan motors suck ass compared to an I-6, especially in low end torque delivery. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:22:53 AM EDT
[#11]
A sluggish jeep, no way.
You need gears or boost, the reason jeeps, Toyotas, etc are always so 'reliable' is cause they have no power to hurt themselves. What size tires are you running? 1. Look at the motor dyno chart, decide the tire size you want to run, go to grimmjeeper.com, and decide an axle ratio. Or 2. Live with it. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:25:48 AM EDT
[#12]
On a normally aspirated engine, there is no replacement for displacement, especially when it comes to low RPM torque output.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 8:44:01 AM EDT
[#13]
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 11:01:51 AM EDT
[#14]
Jeeps are not built to go fast over even terrain. They're built to go slow over extremely uneven terrain. That said, if you feel like it doesn't have enough oomph, you can easily go to a place like 4 Wheel Parts and get a re-gear to like 3.7 or 4.1.
Me, I'm rolling 3.21 stock gears with 33's in my 2014 JKU and I just don't care. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 1:27:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane. 
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 1:31:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Lol "my jeep is slow" "Water is wet" "Fire is hot" etc etc
Wrong forum for that answer...this is a tech forum, not GD so keep it correct. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 4:24:17 PM EDT
[#17]
They might not have mentioned when you bought your JEEP:
5th gear is Overdrive. You wont be pushing wind, up hill very hard at 1500 rpm. small engines need to rev up a bit more than that. try a lower gear.
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Posted: 10/28/2014 4:34:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They might not have mentioned when you bought your JEEP: 5th gear is Overdrive. You wont be pushing wind, up hill very hard at 1500 rpm. small engines need to rev up a bit more than that. try a lower gear. They have 6 speeds in the manuals |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:03:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jeeps are not built to go fast over even terrain. They're built to go slow over extremely uneven terrain. That said, if you feel like it doesn't have enough oomph, you can easily go to a place like 4 Wheel Parts and get a re-gear to like 3.7 or 4.1. Me, I'm rolling 3.21 stock gears with 33's in my 2014 JKU and I just don't care. So they use V6's that don't even hit their power bands until 4400 RPM? When they had a I6 that peaked out at 4600 RPM. I know someone who came off a YJ and bought a new 70th JK and said it was gutless…even my lifted XJ (with 31's and 3:55s) will out accelerate it. I think it's actually quite sad that the Pentastar barely out performs my decade old 4.2… |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 7:27:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On a normally aspirated engine, there is no replacement for displacement, especially when it comes to low RPM torque output. QFT. I learned it as "no substitute for cubic inches", and it is still true today. Jeeps have a place, but running economically on the highway, with some passing power, isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong, not at all a jeep-hater, but the basic vehicle is about as aerodynamic as a brick, and the factory gearing is generally not suited for the long commute on the highway. I respect Jeeps for what they can be as rough-terrain vehicles, but most things that work in that aspect are antithetical as daily commuter vehicles. Define the task. Examine the available tools dispassionately, and the right answer will become apparent sooner or later. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 8:16:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So they use V6's that don't even hit their power bands until 4400 RPM? When they had a I6 that peaked out at 4600 RPM. I know someone who came off a YJ and bought a new 70th JK and said it was gutless…even my lifted XJ (with 31's and 3:55s) will out accelerate it. I think it's actually quite sad that the Pentastar barely out performs my decade old 4.2… Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Jeeps are not built to go fast over even terrain. They're built to go slow over extremely uneven terrain. That said, if you feel like it doesn't have enough oomph, you can easily go to a place like 4 Wheel Parts and get a re-gear to like 3.7 or 4.1. Me, I'm rolling 3.21 stock gears with 33's in my 2014 JKU and I just don't care. So they use V6's that don't even hit their power bands until 4400 RPM? When they had a I6 that peaked out at 4600 RPM. I know someone who came off a YJ and bought a new 70th JK and said it was gutless…even my lifted XJ (with 31's and 3:55s) will out accelerate it. I think it's actually quite sad that the Pentastar barely out performs my decade old 4.2… I think the extra power higher in the RPM range is just from the VVT. The 3.6 actually has an extremely flat torque curve. 200 lb-ft of torque comes in around 1,400 rpm and at 2,100 rpm its at 250 ft -lbs.. pretty much stays at 250 ftlbs until redline. So, 0-60 at or below 7 seconds isn't fast, but it's plenty fast for a Jeep I think. Don't think any XJ's were very close to that? Offroad - I think 250 ft-lbs in the 2000 RPM range is fine. Especially considering the Rubicon's are working with a 4:1 transfer ration AND front and rear lockers. The D44's are strong, but if you start talking 300+ft lbs or torque and just 32" tires and you're already pushing into the d60 range. 20+mpg Overall good gas engine for the vehicle, I think. Only problem with the op is I guarantee he has 3.21 gears. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 8:36:05 PM EDT
[#22]
The Engine is just fine and like I said the most powerful stock Jeep made. They have
been doing just fine since the beginning of Jeep with less power. OP I do not see that you have answered the questions about the gearing, mods etc. The jeep is not a sports car. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 9:00:37 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They have 6 speeds in the manuals Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They might not have mentioned when you bought your JEEP: 5th gear is Overdrive. You wont be pushing wind, up hill very hard at 1500 rpm. small engines need to rev up a bit more than that. try a lower gear. They have 6 speeds in the manuals Yes, 5th is 1:1 gear and 6th is .84:1. Hell, 4th is only 1.25:1. It gives up higher gearing's mechanical leverage at speed for more low end grunt, hence the 4.46:1 1st gear. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 9:07:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Engine is just fine and like I said the most powerful stock Jeep made. They have been doing just fine since the beginning of Jeep with less power. OP I do not see that you have answered the questions about the gearing, mods etc. The jeep is not a sports car. Actually, none other the Enzo Ferrari called the Jeep "Americas sports car." 
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Posted: 10/28/2014 10:14:20 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, none other the Enzo Ferrari called the Jeep "Americas sports car."
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The Engine is just fine and like I said the most powerful stock Jeep made. They have been doing just fine since the beginning of Jeep with less power. OP I do not see that you have answered the questions about the gearing, mods etc. The jeep is not a sports car. Actually, none other the Enzo Ferrari called the Jeep "Americas sports car."
Well, Enzo might have been making a little bit of a joke, there. Until the Fords whipped the Ferraris at Le Mans. |
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Posted: 10/28/2014 10:23:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, Enzo might have been making a little bit of a joke, there. Until the Fords whipped the Ferraris at Le Mans. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The Engine is just fine and like I said the most powerful stock Jeep made. They have been doing just fine since the beginning of Jeep with less power. OP I do not see that you have answered the questions about the gearing, mods etc. The jeep is not a sports car. Actually, none other the Enzo Ferrari called the Jeep "Americas sports car."
Well, Enzo might have been making a little bit of a joke, there. Until the Fords whipped the Ferraris at Le Mans. Jeep…a term derived from a Ford designation. Where one of the most famous visuals aspects…was actually a Ford design. |
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Posted: 10/29/2014 5:09:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Engine is just fine and like I said the most powerful stock Jeep made. They have been doing just fine since the beginning of Jeep with less power. OP I do not see that you have answered the questions about the gearing, mods etc. The jeep is not a sports car. It's a stock Jeep with the lower ratio. I'm just getting used to the feel of it's performance envelope, and everyone has been great at offering ideas I may incorporate in the future. I haven't yet explored the costs associated with re-gearing it. Would a performance air intake/filter give me some boost until I decide to spend more $'s? |
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Posted: 10/29/2014 5:26:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would a performance air intake/filter give me some boost until I decide to spend more $'s? |
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Posted: 10/29/2014 5:32:10 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a stock Jeep with the lower ratio. I'm just getting used to the feel of it's performance envelope, and everyone has been great at offering ideas I may incorporate in the future. I haven't yet explored the costs associated with re-gearing it. Would a performance air intake/filter give me some boost until I decide to spend more $'s? You mean lower number like a 3.21? |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 9:47:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I understand that fully; I stand by my statement though, it still needs more engine. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is the most powerful stock jeep ever made. What if any mods does it have? And like posted above what gearing does it have? I understand that fully; I stand by my statement though, it still needs more engine. I've got a 2dr JK Sahara. The 3.6 with the 5spd auto and 3.73's feels plenty peppy for a jeep - but those peak hp/tq numbers are just that - peak. OP - if you've got the 3.21's; plan on re-gearing. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 10:31:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Being a car guy I once tried my luck DD'ing a truck/SUV and I ended up being miserable.
The vehicle couldnt hold the same gear up a hill, had no acceleration, couldnt stop very well, almost felt like it would tip over around turns and the gas mileage was horrible I dont understand how you guys can deal with this daily. I would just want a cheap wheeling vehicle for the weekends. F driving it around all day, thats madness. |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 1:30:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being a car guy I once tried my luck DD'ing a truck/SUV and I ended up being miserable. The vehicle couldnt hold the same gear up a hill, had no acceleration, couldnt stop very well, almost felt like it would tip over around turns and the gas mileage was horrible I dont understand how you guys can deal with this daily. I would just want a cheap wheeling vehicle for the weekends. F driving it around all day, thats madness. That's easy. The smallest vehicle I've ever owned was a Suzuki Samurai with a 8" SPOA lift and 2" body lift (wouldn't recommend the body lift). Since I was born, some one in my family has either had a XJ or a ZJ. I also got in a wreck about a month after I graduated high school...I stopped, the Mustang Cobra behind me did not, I rotated out of my seat belt and hit the steering column...there are very few cars/sedans I can sit in for more than 15 minutes before my back starts to hurt (I also have an extremely hard time getting out of vehicles that low to the ground). |
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Posted: 10/30/2014 1:39:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Easy sell it and get a real jeep.
84 CJ7 makes you feel like a kid again 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:05:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Easy sell it and get a real jeep. 84 CJ7 makes you feel like a kid again
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww71/GSGMAN/cjman_zpsebfbcf08.jpg Real Jeep? How about a M38? 
Makes a great hog hunting vehicle. Just fold the windshield down and blast away. Personally I've never seen a reason to get rid of my XJ. I actually prefer to drive it over my Trailblazer. Needs to have the R&Ps rebuilt though (maybe I'll upgrade it to 3.90s). 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:09:07 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane.
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:38:37 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Real Jeep? How about a M38? Nice! But no room for the kids car seats in the back. Only the boy is mine. I think the neighborhood girls were trying to steal him and my truck 
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Posted: 10/30/2014 3:53:05 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane.
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. Actually, the 3.2 scoots in auto mode. More so in sport mode. It's no V8, but had it up to 85 for the first time yesterday. Didn't realize it until I passed 2 slowpokes in the right lane, was getting ready to take my exit, then looked at the speedo. The 9 speed is pretty smooth for that type of acceleration.
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Posted: 11/2/2014 2:18:28 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane.
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. Actually, they do haul. The only issue I've had is that 3rd gear seems sluggish, which was part of my original post. Factory specs indicate zero to sixty in 8 secs. Not bad, and I can nearly make that in first gear. I've always enjoyed my 1993 Jeep Grand Cherokee, and while is served me well for so long, I like the Jeep brand. I never expected it to be on a par with my 2002 Corvette. Quoted:
Lol "my jeep is slow" "Water is wet" "Fire is hot" etc etc So apart from this douche, I appreciate the comments from all of you! Thanks |
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Posted: 11/2/2014 5:11:06 PM EDT
[#39]
4.88's will fix that problem.
In fact, 4.88's fix a lot of problems
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Posted: 11/3/2014 4:06:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Actually, the 3.2 scoots in auto mode. More so in sport mode. It's no V8, but had it up to 85 for the first time yesterday. Didn't realize it until I passed 2 slowpokes in the right lane, was getting ready to take my exit, then looked at the speedo. The 9 speed is pretty smooth for that type of acceleration.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You bought a Jeep, get used to way of life in the right lane.
I find the opposite to be true. The newer Wranglers can move. Even my new Cherokee hauls. Posts: 6666
Im sure its fast... compared to your avatar. Actually, the 3.2 scoots in auto mode. More so in sport mode. It's no V8, but had it up to 85 for the first time yesterday. Didn't realize it until I passed 2 slowpokes in the right lane, was getting ready to take my exit, then looked at the speedo. The 9 speed is pretty smooth for that type of acceleration.
Honestly before I got my Jeep I had only ever owned 4-banger cars. So in comparison, my JKU is not bad. But it isn't fast. And I don't care. Why? Because Jeep. |
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Posted: 11/5/2014 10:48:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being a car guy I once tried my luck DD'ing a truck/SUV and I ended up being miserable. The vehicle couldnt hold the same gear up a hill, had no acceleration, couldnt stop very well, almost felt like it would tip over around turns and the gas mileage was horrible I dont understand how you guys can deal with this daily. I would just want a cheap wheeling vehicle for the weekends. F driving it around all day, thats madness. I find that the easiest way is to not drive trucks with weak-ass engines in them.
But seriously, the only pickup trucks I ever had any sort of issues on hills with were 4 cylinder Rangers that hadn't been maintained. Trucks have come a long way - any new one that isn't a cheapo 4-banger should haul ass if it's not heavily loaded down, and even then a lot of them still will. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 6:32:48 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean lower number like a 3.21? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's a stock Jeep with the lower ratio. I'm just getting used to the feel of it's performance envelope, and everyone has been great at offering ideas I may incorporate in the future. I haven't yet explored the costs associated with re-gearing it. Would a performance air intake/filter give me some boost until I decide to spend more $'s? You mean lower number like a 3.21?
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Posted: 11/6/2014 7:26:01 AM EDT
[#43]
Find the power band curve online and you'll see what RPM you have to be running compared to what gear. Not Jeep, but there's a reason the PowerWagon has 4:56 gears. The Hemi doesn't start hitting peak HP and torque until around 5K RPM. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 11:09:10 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Find the power band curve online and you'll see what RPM you have to be running compared to what gear. Not Jeep, but there's a reason the PowerWagon has 4:56 gears. The Hemi doesn't start hitting peak HP and torque until around 5K RPM. I have still to figure out why they haven't put a 6.7 in that truck…to me the modern Powerwagon's are bastardizations to the originals though. |
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Posted: 11/6/2014 11:13:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What it is sounding like. My 13 with 3.73 and 6sp will easily cruise a trip between 80-90mph in 6th and get around 18mpg with stock size mud terrains. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It's a stock Jeep with the lower ratio. I'm just getting used to the feel of it's performance envelope, and everyone has been great at offering ideas I may incorporate in the future. I haven't yet explored the costs associated with re-gearing it. Would a performance air intake/filter give me some boost until I decide to spend more $'s? You mean lower number like a 3.21? The big thing people don't really look into…over the last 10 years we've seen the introduction 6,7,8 and even 9 speed transmissions. Either way you look at it though, the OD gear radio hasn't really changed since OD became an option…some transmissions still make the jump from direct to over…others have added another gear in-between. |
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