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Posted: 4/15/2014 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why don't you explain why you think the boxers are harder on head gaskets and remove all confusion  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Many better options out there for the same or less money. It doesn't look too bad though.  I'll never own a boxer motor. Terrible gas mileage and many people don't consider the effects of gravity on a flat positioned motor. Edit: Also, when the engine is shut down, coolant (and possibly other fluids) will remain in contact with the headgasket. If these fluids aren't properly maintained then it will eat away at the headgasket causing premature failures. In an in-line or V motor the fluids settle below the headgasket. I can't agree with your headgasket scenario. A properly burped coolant system will not have any air moving around in it. Are you talking about the subaru 2.5 headgasket problems? Those are crappy headgaskets from the start from what I understand. Where is everyone getting the idea that I said there is air in the coolant system? I learned to read in second grade.... Why don't you explain why you think the boxers are harder on head gaskets and remove all confusion The combination of gravity comment and coolant comment. It isn't that we can't read, it has more to do with you not making any sense.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 7:54:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The combination of gravity comment and coolant comment. It isn't that we can't read, it has more to do with you not making any sense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
The combination of gravity comment and coolant comment. It isn't that we can't read, it has more to do with you not making any sense. Actually it is about reading, because I already explained what I meant in a previous post. Edit: Explained it twice actually.. Quoted:
Edit: to clarify for those who are confused, when I said settle I meant the majority of coolant is below the head gasket Quoted:
About the coolant settling thing; I already clarified but again, no the coolant will not settle. But there is more coolant in contact with the head gasket at any given time. Which is what I meant by settle. My mistake, should have clarified from the beginning Edit2: Here's some added reading material (about subaru motors, just did a quick search) for everyone..... 
Reading 1 Reading 2 |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 9:55:43 AM EDT
[#3]
From Link 1:
The single biggest back to a boxer engine is that the critical engine fluids such as coolant and oil will remain in contact with the gaskets as opposed to an Inline or V engine the fluids drain down or only contact the side of a gasket rather than gravity forcing it to stay on top. This is where Subaru has kind of gotten themselves in trouble in my opinion as the maintenance aspects of a Boxer need to be different than that of an inline 4 cylinder engine for example. If the oil is contaminated with fuel, and the coolant ph levels increased the gaskets will be eaten away, they don’t have a choice. The single most important thing you can do with your Subaru is change the oil and change the coolant the way YOUR driving style dictates, how you use the car is what matters not some hard to understand fiction put into a maintenance booklet so the ownership costs look lower than they actually are. That doesn't make any sense in regards to coolant. It doesn't have anywhere to drain to. There is no draining involved. And under what circumstances is the "top" of a head gasket exposed to these fluids? Link 2 doesn't say anything at all about coolant "draining" or not, and otherwise doesn't talk about why the gaskets were failing, beyond a brief implication that it's because of the gasket material chemically decomposing as a result of prolonged contact with the coolant, which is going to be the case with any engine design. It's an issue of improper gasket material, not engine layout. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:34:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Link 1: That doesn't make any sense in regards to coolant. It doesn't have anywhere to drain to. There is no draining involved. And under what circumstances is the "top" of a head gasket exposed to these fluids? Link 2 doesn't say anything at all about coolant "draining" or not, and otherwise doesn't talk about why the gaskets were failing, beyond a brief implication that it's because of the gasket material chemically decomposing as a result of prolonged contact with the coolant, which is going to be the case with any engine design. It's an issue of improper gasket material, not engine layout. Quote HistoryQuoted:
From Link 1: The single biggest back to a boxer engine is that the critical engine fluids such as coolant and oil will remain in contact with the gaskets as opposed to an Inline or V engine the fluids drain down or only contact the side of a gasket rather than gravity forcing it to stay on top. This is where Subaru has kind of gotten themselves in trouble in my opinion as the maintenance aspects of a Boxer need to be different than that of an inline 4 cylinder engine for example. If the oil is contaminated with fuel, and the coolant ph levels increased the gaskets will be eaten away, they don’t have a choice. The single most important thing you can do with your Subaru is change the oil and change the coolant the way YOUR driving style dictates, how you use the car is what matters not some hard to understand fiction put into a maintenance booklet so the ownership costs look lower than they actually are. That doesn't make any sense in regards to coolant. It doesn't have anywhere to drain to. There is no draining involved. And under what circumstances is the "top" of a head gasket exposed to these fluids? Link 2 doesn't say anything at all about coolant "draining" or not, and otherwise doesn't talk about why the gaskets were failing, beyond a brief implication that it's because of the gasket material chemically decomposing as a result of prolonged contact with the coolant, which is going to be the case with any engine design. It's an issue of improper gasket material, not engine layout. Do you own one of these types of motors? Because you sure are stubborn.. 
Edit: The quote you posted kind of implicates everything you're trying to defend anyways.. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:42:38 AM EDT
[#5]
I used to own an 89 GL with the 1.8 boxer engine. It was a complete piece of shit and I had to replace both heads before I ever drove it (they both had cracks due to a clogged radiator). There was no more or less HG material exposed to coolant in that engine than in any other engine. It's an issue with the gasket material, not with how the cylinders are laid out.
ETA: The quote I posted doesn't make any sense, and what am I "trying to defend"? |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 10:51:22 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I used to own an 89 GL with the 1.8 boxer engine. It was a complete piece of shit and I had to replace both heads before I ever drove it (they both had cracks due to a clogged radiator). There was no more or less HG material exposed to coolant in that engine than in any other engine. It's an issue with the gasket material, not with how the cylinders are laid out. ETA: The quote I posted doesn't make any sense, and what am I "trying to defend"? It seems, to me anyway, that you're trying to defend that the design of the motor has no effect as to why the headgaskets go out so prematurely. It's really not just the material the gasket is made of.. I don't know how you need it explained so you understand what I'm saying. I've even given outside sources. The quote you posted makes absolute sense, which is why I don't know what else to say. I suppose you have to have been working on motors for a long time to understand just how everything works, and why the things that don't make sense immediately actually do make sense overall. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:07:59 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its the scion/toyota. Top gear had a spot on it. It's rear wheel drive apparently. Yep. It hits all of the marks for me. If I ever get the $$ for a sport car....this one is probably it. I'd take an S2000 too, but am worried about fitting in it (i'm tall). |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:12:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The combination of gravity comment and coolant comment. It isn't that we can't read, it has more to do with you not making any sense. Actually it is about reading, because I already explained what I meant in a previous post. Edit: Explained it twice actually.. Quoted: Edit: to clarify for those who are confused, when I said settle I meant the majority of coolant is below the head gasket Quoted: About the coolant settling thing; I already clarified but again, no the coolant will not settle. But there is more coolant in contact with the head gasket at any given time. Which is what I meant by settle. My mistake, should have clarified from the beginning Edit2: Here's some added reading material (about subaru motors, just did a quick search) for everyone..... Reading 1 Reading 2 Sigh.
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Posted: 4/16/2014 11:23:48 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sigh. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The combination of gravity comment and coolant comment. It isn't that we can't read, it has more to do with you not making any sense. Actually it is about reading, because I already explained what I meant in a previous post. Edit: Explained it twice actually.. Quoted:
Edit: to clarify for those who are confused, when I said settle I meant the majority of coolant is below the head gasket Quoted:
About the coolant settling thing; I already clarified but again, no the coolant will not settle. But there is more coolant in contact with the head gasket at any given time. Which is what I meant by settle. My mistake, should have clarified from the beginning Edit2: Here's some added reading material (about subaru motors, just did a quick search) for everyone.....
Reading 1 Reading 2 Sigh. Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. |
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Posted: 4/16/2014 2:22:03 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. No. However, it hasn't been around all that long yet. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 6:51:31 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. This person answered your question for you. Quoted:
No. However, it hasn't been around all that long yet. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 7:20:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This person answered your question for you. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. This person answered your question for you. Quoted:
No. However, it hasn't been around all that long yet. Yeah, I saw that, you know, when he posted it after I posted. 
Just trying to bring the tread back on topic. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:29:54 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I saw that, you know, when he posted it after I posted.
Just trying to bring the tread back on topic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. This person answered your question for you. Quoted:
No. However, it hasn't been around all that long yet. Yeah, I saw that, you know, when he posted it after I posted.
Just trying to bring the tread back on topic. Just making sure I reciprocate for your sarcastic response.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 8:53:10 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just making sure I reciprocate for your sarcastic response. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Has the FA20 engine in the BRZ/FRS experienced high head gasket failure rates yet? If the answer to that question is "No", then the entire discussion is irrelevant. This person answered your question for you. Quoted: No. However, it hasn't been around all that long yet. Yeah, I saw that, you know, when he posted it after I posted. Just trying to bring the tread back on topic. Just making sure I reciprocate for your sarcastic response. I am not being sarcastic in this thread, just want to be clear I just think you don't know what you're talking about.
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Posted: 4/17/2014 10:47:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am not being sarcastic in this thread, just want to be clear I just think you don't know what you're talking about. Wasn't referring to you, however, you're entitled to that. Does it make you right? I think not. But either way it's your car, I won't tell you what to own and what not to own. Just trying to give some first hand experience advice. Cheers! 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:11:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Ok, this thread is pushing the limit for a technical forum.
Let's work at ignoring the trolling, and focus on discussing the car itself. |
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:25:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok, this thread is pushing the limit for a technical forum. Let's work at ignoring the trolling, and focus on discussing the car itself. Feel free to lock it up. I don't get the feeling it's going to get better. I don't need the thread anymore 
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Posted: 4/17/2014 1:38:45 PM EDT
[#18]
Off topic, personal attacks.
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