Ok, So I want to start a business. Rather than beat my head against a wall I might as well just start asking questions until I go nuts.

First, the company I want to start is an armored car company. The kind that drives money around from point "A" to point "B".  I have the who, what and where covered, I just need to know a starting point to the business loan, and to what kind. I don't really know how to even begin to navigate the SBA website.  

My business plan revolves around trying to figure out how much I kind charge and still stay afloat. I saw in another thread, the tips for business about keeping my personal finance above board so I don't flounder the company trying to keep my house.
Do I just build a business plan? The bank judges it not full of shit, they sign off and give a big loan?
How much loan will they give a guy that does not have a business degree?
Should I go through the SBA or my local bank?
Who is John Gault?
Thoughts? Ideas, and snarky comments welcome.

I'm fairly intoxicated but you need to know the going rate.   The bank hires folks who do this so they are gonna know it.

You'll need to present your business plan to your local bank. You'll work with someone on the commercial side, who will have to sell your plan to the board members who decide on whether or not your idea and plan are sound.

The bank will tell you no.

Have you ever worked for Brinks or Garda?

Worked for a smaller company but in the field. That is how I know there is money to be made.  There is no real competition in the area.

Not a banker, but I would think the chances of getting a loan for a start up if you have no tracj record is slim.

If you can't get this off the ground, I suggest looking for local businesses for sale and specifically look for the ones with seller financing available.

Make sure you identify something that you can grow into supporting a paid manager and kicking you income so you can start/buy the other business you want to be in.

As for the SBA- eat lots of curry and get a good tan before you apply.

Good luck.

I do like curry, but as a ginger I think the tan is out.

I was in the armored car business, and still am in the security field, just different now. Looking to strike out under my own flag.  I have been researching the field in MN and I have a couple of different avenues, I just don't know how to get teh capital. Hence the thread.

I want to start with atleast two trucks and run local routes until I can pick up a few of the bigger businesses and grow the company.  The problem I have is armored vehicles are not cheap and neither is property with garages. If I can get a loan big enough to cover the trucks, a few months rent, and a few sidearms for my first employees I can get it up an running.

And unless you have a rich relative willing to invest you aren't borrowing any money.  Maybe and that's a big maybe if you had a signed contract for a few years worth of work.  Good luck to you either way.

Sounds like you need some venture capitalists, as a bank won't touch your idea.

The banks also wouldn't touch Starbucks when they were trying to get off of the ground. Over 200 banks.

How much exactly do you need to borrow? I want to see each expense broken down.

How much can you make in payments how often and that if you don't all your shit belongs to the lender and you'll get sued for the rest? What is the total amount of assets you have now and I'm hoping a credit score over 720.

Ok, the breakdown.
2 Cash in transit vehicles (I have a quote as of yet returned from a canadian armoring company for a Ford Transit vehicle)
Used International CIT trucks $42,000 A piece.

5 M&P 9mm (2  two person teams plus myself) $2250 (450*5)

5 pairs of Pants and shirts for two teams plus myself (so five personnel total)
Polos (both Long and Short sleeve) 25 total $500
Pants (I like 5.11 taclite) 50 a piece *25 Total $1250
If I pay to get the training to qual my own people I can train and equip on my own and wont have to pay to have my personnel trained. that can run up to 150 a person. It would be an upfront cost I would probably absorb before I start the business.
Protective Agent License $1800


Business location has been tough, I can get a two stall garage storage location for between 650 and 3500 depending on how close I can get. I would be willing to pay more to have the whole facility and be able to secure it.

Trucks          84,000
Weapons        2,250
Uniforms        1,750
License          1,800
rent               1,000 (just spit balling)

My current job is calling so I will update as I can.

You left off insurance and wages (estimate).

along with

workers comp
city business license
state business license
corporation fees
advertising
vehicle maintenance
signage
utilities for rent space
office equipment

I wonder how much the GL liability insurance is for armed employees is. And the vehicle insurance?

You listed guns as your second capital expenditure item... I think that says a lot right there.

This.

You arent even close. You'll burn up twice that much money at the very least by the time you are cash flow neutral.

I wouldn't even think another second about that business with less than 200k in financing in place.

Very few businesses fail bc they cant make a profit. They fail because they aren't profitable enough to service debt and stay cash flow positive. There is a huge difference between profitable and cash flow positive.

At my work, on our most profitable year we made over a million in profit and almost went under because we were -400k in cash flow by the time we serviced debt and the bank made us shut down 1 location and scale back .

Op, you are thinking about starting a business, not running a business. What happens when you lose a turbo that burns up an engine the second week. Costs 15k to fix it?

Oh dont worry, just do it out of cash. You only have 6 months to wait before you are profitable and have extra cash.

But you wont make it 6 months because you cant use half of your fleet now. Its in the shop and you cant fix it. Now you have 20k a month in overhead for a fleet of 2 but you only have a fleet of 1 to cover it.

But margins are thin enough that one truck leaves you short 8k a month on breaking even.

So you mortgage your house and burn 100k trying to dig yourself out but you never can.

So you lose your house, beg for your old job back and try again in 10 years once you get back to where you were.

Happens every day. Its a formula. The same one over and over again.

So you need what 250k?

Do you have assets to cover that amount?

If so can you do a $2,600 a month payment on the $250k for 10 years?

This is one of the first, most common mistakes people make in their market analysis.

You need to understand barriers to entry, the competition, regulations, bargaining power of customers, etc.

You also need a good forecast for your ROI.

A lot of people get into business without even running an ROI calculation, and many business schools (including renowned ones) don't even teach ROI.

What are you going to do for cash flow for your first 3-5 years as you build?

Getting a business off the ground is one of the most difficult things you will ever tackle.

There is way more overhead than that.

Marketing

Client management

Dispatch employees and shifts

Central office facilities, rent, buy, maintain

Force protection for the garages and office

Insurance, which I'm guessing is regulated in that industry

Communications systems

Vehicle maintenance

Accounting, payroll, office management

Background investigations, initial and continuing

Recruiting, hiring, and training

What everyone else said...

However on the main question you asked; Financing.

IMHO, the only way you are borrowing money for a startup...

Have current assets to secure (guessing not)
Find private investors
A bank might loan against the vehicles or financed by seller and/or find an undervalued property for the business that you can borrow against and use the equity.

Well all of this is great information (though the picture sucks).

I thank all those who answered the questions and thensome.  I will continue to work on this.

Good luck with whatever you decide, OP.

Go out and try it man.

Everyone probably thought my dad was retarded selling shrimp out of the back of a station wagon 33 years ago.

I think the 200k estimates are probably close though I know nothing about that particular business.

Banks generally don't mind loaning on things they can easily repossess and sell like trucks but loaning for things like uniforms, rent, wages, they are a lot more picky about. They also want a hefty down payment so you have skin in the game and their losses are limited.

I don't borrow money anymore but I did when I started my business ten years ago. I think the only reason they approved me was I was investing 100k of my own savings into the business and I signed a personal guarantee and had a ton of equity in my house.  I got lucky and it worked out but looking back it was a very risky thing to do. I could have very easily lost my life savings and gone bankrupt.

SCORE and your local SBDC should be your best friends right now.  Meet with them.  They will help you with your plan and connect you to sba lenders. You will need some private capital as well.  Ether your own, a partner, or investor (family and friends or wealthy individual)
some links:  http://mn.gov/deed/business/help/sbdc/, http://www.score-mn.org/

Eta: there's always more competition than you know of.  Try to speak with everyone you think will be a customer and ask if they have any problems and how they are solving them.  If you're successful, expect a larger company to move in on your area.  Be sure to differentiate and have a competitive advantage over who you think that may be.