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Posted: 11/24/2015 5:55:38 PM EDT
I have just got my 401k set up and some money in it, not very much overall though. I want to grow it and make more money, but I have absolutely no idea where to start. I have been reading all kinds of things, books on order, but I know that theory in books is just that, real world experience is above that. There is nothing wrong with the theory, but me looking at this point of information may be irrelevant and I would never know, ya know?

With that said, I am not going to ask about what company or stock to put money into. What you are wanting may be different and result differently. I know I need to focus on my goals and timeframe, and that is going g to require different trades.

I would love to take nothing to turn it into a gold pile worthy of Donald Duck to dive into, but realistically I know that takes more knowledge and experience than I have, and even then a good bit of time. I am wanting steady growth and long term growth, may look into shorter term investments later as I feel more comfortable with it.

My question, having admittedly read very little waiting on books to show (always take recommendations here for books to read) what points of information do I need to be looking at for investing in my goals? Do I need to be watching this every day for certain signs, or for the long term let them go? (I will check them daily anyway, just knowing what to look for and expect)

Would I be better to look at mutual funds or in the Forex?

How much diversity do I need to have, realistically?

For a long term investment, what should I look for for rate of growth? For mid term investment?

I want to create a plan and then find places to put money I to for these goals and when to jump on buys and sells to build as needed.
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 5:58:02 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 6:20:07 PM EDT
[#2]
You're going to be limited in the funds your 401k provider gives you access to. Pick ones with low fees and gives you broad, diversified access to the total stock market.

You don't sound like you should be cherry picking funds or stocks. I don't normally like target date funds, but it sounds like that might suit you well until you have a better understanding of your goals.
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 7:25:31 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
I want to create a plan and then find places to put money I to for these goals and when to jump on buys and sells to build as needed.
View Quote


a few comments.

1. buy this book.  it is not a math book.  it is a very important book to read.  understand it.  it is very important that you understand asset allocation because it is the single most important aspect in long term investment portfolio performance.  your 401k, as a tax-advantaged account, is an integral part of your asset allocation strategy -- so you need to understand how it fits in both from a tax perspective and from a holdings perspective.
http://www.amazon.com/About-Asset-Allocation-Second-Edition/dp/0071700781

2. you will ultimately have both taxable and tax-advantaged investment accounts.  there are advantages to holding certain assets in each.   READ THE BOOK ABOVE.  

3. costs matter -- a lot.  all else being equal, funds with lower costs will provide greater returns.  seek out the index funds in your 401k options.  

4. stay on course.  yanking and banking on your 401k holdings because of what your sister's boyfriend's cousin's father said will not result in good performance.  

5. read the right things.  below is a start.

ar-jedi


Posted: 12/17/2013 12:05:30 PM EST.

i attempted for two years to bring something resembling sanity into the B&I forum. in my experience there is little to be found there. every thread ended with a pile of people demanding that the OP buy precious metals and bullets, and completely ignore rational asset allocation approaches. i gave up. even Sisyphus gets tired.

if you want good, useful financial guidance from folks who have something more to offer:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/
FWF is like ARFCOM GD, only very finance-oriented. some of the stuff that folks suggest AND do in FWF is incredibly brilliant. some of it would cause members of the SF to run screaming from the room. note: you are going to need a thick skin if you want to toy with folks there. if you start a thread asking whether you should buy or lease a new car, you are going to get pummeled with replies about tacked threads. on the other hand i have seen some of the absolutely oddest scenarios played out and the advice given is top notch. there is a brazen honesty in both the OP's and the replies on FWF, which is simultaneously refreshing and also pushes aside some of the social tiptoeing that occurs in other forums. by the way, the "FWF vehicle of choice" is the Crown Vic PI edition...

http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/asp/AllConv.asp?forumId=F100000026
morningstar's forums have a unique attribute: it costs $5 for a lifetime subscription, which enables you to post. that's it, you pay $5 once and you are good forever. the reason for this is that it completely removes the spammers, as well as the folks who just create an account to stir trouble. for this reason M* forums are the opposite of ARFCOM GD. that said, the Fidelity-specific forum on M* may seem like an odd place to point you to, but i assure you that a many of the folks in the T/A (technical analysis) and market/economy relevant threads in the Fido forum know EXACTLY what they are doing. if you do nothing but read the threads in M*'s Fido forum once a week for two months, i guarantee you will be way ahead of the curve on market economics. you can make a decent amount of money in the bond market (by buying or selling bond funds about every 6 months) doing nothing else other than monitoring threads in the M* Fidelity forum.

http://seekingalpha.com/
seeking alpha is quant-heaven. it is also one of the best places to get raw financial news, from folks that deal in finance, rather than folks that deal in "the news". for this reason you get unbridled analysis of trends and so on. e.g. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1903641-zero-hedge-is-wrong-about-gold
most of what is presented on SA is going to be slightly esoteric for the typical individual investor. nevertheless some of the information will provide a lot of insight into *why* certain companies or markets will succeed or will be doomed. i have to credit a story on SA for the single best investment that i ever made; in the 10 years that i owned it, it returned a stratospheric amount of money and i'm looking for a reentry point on it, although it's much less of a secret now.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/index.php
bogleheads is simultaneously the most user-friendly financial investing site but also the most religious. the "john bogle" way dictates investment behaviors which don't provide a lot of latitude. for example, a so-called boglehead would opine that the *only* way to invest in the equities market is via a total market index fund. why? because it has the lowest intrinsic cost, the most breadth and therefore the least risk, and statistically outperforms the majority of "managed money" in traditional mutual funds. i encourage you to get an account on bogleheads and inform them that they are all wrong, and that there is a better way. i'm exaggerating a bit here, of course. i will say that if you have a financial situation which you would like some advice on -- example, i'm 34, i have two young kids, i want them to go to college, what's the best way to invest so i can pay for it? -- you will get a variety of excellent ideas and positive advice from the folks on the bogleheads forum. bogleheads is another site where if you would just read once a week for a couple of months you will learn an incredible amount of useful, practical information.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/
the religion at this forum is known as "FIRE" -- "financial independence, retire early" -- and it is the mantra of this website. the idea of FIRE is to "get off the merry-go-round" as soon as possible; that means different things to different people, but in the end it's the same: escape. read this forum and learning how people are planning to FIRE, how they are actually doing FIRE, and finally how they did FIRE. one thing you will notice is that these folks DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON NON-ESSENTIAL things. if you ever need to be told, "it's not what you make, it's what you save", well this is the place.

related to the above site is this tool:
http://www.firecalc.com/
(there is an entire forum at the above site discussing how to use/not misuse this tool, incidentally)
the point of this tool is straightforward in terms of answering questions: given you want to retire, how much will you need, how quickly will it be used up, and what return will you need? the tool uses Monte Carlo simulation to statistically work out the bounds of various market scenarios, and how they will affect your retirement monies.

ps
to finish up, the single text that i would advise folks pick up is Ferri's "All About Asset Allocation". after you read this the light will go on, and it will help you take "big picture" stock of your investments in totality. the $20 or whatever this book costs at Amazon will be repaid many times over.

ar-jedi
View Quote




ETA

just be warned -- FatWallet Finance (FWF) folks have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MINDSET than typical ARFCOM'ers. FWF'ers are not beholden to the "victimization" in terms of financial matters that ARFCOM'ers are. to this end FWF'ers are not complaining to each other about getting screwed by their bank or credit card company; instead they are incessantly devising ways to screw the bank or credit card company. and, furthermore, take advantage of prevailing economic conditions whether good or bad.
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 7:29:32 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You're going to be limited in the funds your 401k provider gives you access to. Pick ones with low fees and gives you broad, diversified access to the total stock market.

You don't sound like you should be cherry picking funds or stocks. I don't normally like target date funds, but it sounds like that might suit you well until you have a better understanding of your goals.
View Quote


I actually like target date funds for the diversity and ease. If you want to really get involved in picking and choosing then do day trading

Link Posted: 11/24/2015 11:45:09 PM EDT
[#5]



Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I actually like target date funds for the diversity and ease. If you want to really get involved in picking and choosing then do day trading
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:



You're going to be limited in the funds your 401k provider gives you access to. Pick ones with low fees and gives you broad, diversified access to the total stock market.
You don't sound like you should be cherry picking funds or stocks. I don't normally like target date funds, but it sounds like that might suit you well until you have a better understanding of your goals.

I actually like target date funds for the diversity and ease. If you want to really get involved in picking and choosing then do day trading
Our company enrolls everyone into very low cost TargetDate funds upon hiring, unless they specifically sign up for other funds. For 95% of the people who don't want to follow the ins and outs of the market, this is the way to go.

 







For the OP, trying to jump on buys and sells is also known as buying high and selling low. Based on the questions you're asking, you should do a lot of reading and some really boring investing, like Ar-jedi and others recommend. Only when you have a nice cushion built up should you consider individual securities. And then, you should probably only do it with 5% or less of your total portfolio value.






When you're regularly dining with Warren Buffett, then you'll know that it's time to delve into FOREX and currency trading. Doing this before you and Warren are pals is probably a bad idea.










Of course, I'm not a professional financial guy, so I could be totally wrong. Remember that free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.



 

 
Link Posted: 11/24/2015 11:58:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Our company enrolls everyone into very low cost TargetDate funds upon hiring, unless they specifically sign up for other funds. For 95% of the people who don't want to follow the ins and outs of the market, this is the way to go.  

For the OP, trying to jump on buys and sells is also known as buying high and selling low. Based on the questions you're asking, you should do a lot of reading and some really boring investing, like Ar-jedi and others recommend. Only when you have a nice cushion built up should you consider individual securities. And then, you should probably only do it with 5% or less of your total portfolio value.

When you're regularly dining with Warren Buffett, then you'll know that it's time to delve into FOREX and currency trading. Doing this before you and Warren are pals is probably a bad idea.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You're going to be limited in the funds your 401k provider gives you access to. Pick ones with low fees and gives you broad, diversified access to the total stock market.

You don't sound like you should be cherry picking funds or stocks. I don't normally like target date funds, but it sounds like that might suit you well until you have a better understanding of your goals.


I actually like target date funds for the diversity and ease. If you want to really get involved in picking and choosing then do day trading

Our company enrolls everyone into very low cost TargetDate funds upon hiring, unless they specifically sign up for other funds. For 95% of the people who don't want to follow the ins and outs of the market, this is the way to go.  

For the OP, trying to jump on buys and sells is also known as buying high and selling low. Based on the questions you're asking, you should do a lot of reading and some really boring investing, like Ar-jedi and others recommend. Only when you have a nice cushion built up should you consider individual securities. And then, you should probably only do it with 5% or less of your total portfolio value.

When you're regularly dining with Warren Buffett, then you'll know that it's time to delve into FOREX and currency trading. Doing this before you and Warren are pals is probably a bad idea.


I will buy that book ands read it over, but yes I am not ready to pull the trigger on anything just yet, I know that. I was thinking of taking a huge portion of the fund and leaving it as is, or into a safe mutual fund (s) that may grow more, obviously after lots of research and all, and a small bit to delve into other funds, stocks, or securities. Definitely not going to put all my eggs into one basket, especially considering its my 401k.

I'm just trying to get a sense of, based on personal experience of people with personal experience, where is a good place to start looking, and devise a plan for my goals. The boring investment, I agree as a way to get my feet wet, is aa good place to start, and depending on my goals would determine where that investment goes.
Of course, I'm not a professional financial guy, so I could be totally wrong. Remember that free advice is worth exactly what you paid for it.
 
 

True, but it could also be the best advice. The old adage, to be old and wise, comes to mind.
Link Posted: 11/25/2015 12:52:54 PM EDT
[#7]
You sound like a prime candidate to not do anything that you claim to want to do and just invest in a Target Retirement fund.
Doing what you are proposing (buying/selling, timing the market, etc.) sounds like a great way to lose the bulk of your potential growth to gambling.
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 12:46:13 PM EDT
[#8]
S&P500 fund until you get several thousand dollars invested...and by several thousand I mean a few years worth of maxing out your 401(k).

Then start to experiment with new money invested.

That way at least you'll have the original several thousand as a base/core investment.
Link Posted: 12/15/2015 3:07:54 PM EDT
[#9]
I would love to take nothing to turn it into a gold pile worthy of Donald Duck to dive into, but realistically I know that takes more knowledge and experience than I have, and even then a good bit of time.
View Quote


Realistically it doesn't happen ever.  You aren't going to trade thousands into millions.

To be successful, you have to accept the fact that investing is a "Get Rich Slowly" scheme.

Link Posted: 12/16/2015 12:26:00 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Realistically it doesn't happen ever.  You aren't going to trade thousands into millions.

To be successful, you have to accept the fact that investing is a "Get Rich Slowly" scheme.

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I would love to take nothing to turn it into a gold pile worthy of Donald Duck to dive into, but realistically I know that takes more knowledge and experience than I have, and even then a good bit of time.


Realistically it doesn't happen ever.  You aren't going to trade thousands into millions.

To be successful, you have to accept the fact that investing is a "Get Rich Slowly" scheme.



True.

You can, and it's relatively easy, to invest hundreds in to millions.
Link Posted: 12/16/2015 8:23:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Depends on your tolerance for risk.  You're going to have several mutual funds options (and limited because your company will pick what you can buy into).  The simplest way to categorize your options will be Growth, Value, and Bonds.

Growth options are higher risk more rewards.  Meaning the money is going to be invested aggressively.  When things are up you're going to see great returns, when things are down you're likely going to be in the negative.
Value options are generally middle of the road.  You aren't going to see significant gains like growth, but you'll see something modest and slow.  Risk is lower and while its not impossible, you probably aren't going to swing positive or negative greatly and you'll see more dividends than actual gains.
Bonds are exactly that, you are at the whim of the bond market.  Right now bonds aren't a great option, but as with anything, wait long enough and you'll be in at the right time.
Link Posted: 1/9/2016 9:24:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
You sound like a prime candidate to not do anything that you claim to want to do and just invest in a Target Retirement fund.
Doing what you are proposing (buying/selling, timing the market, etc.) sounds like a great way to lose the bulk of your potential growth to gambling.
View Quote


After really thinking about it, this is prime advice. I am reading up on investments and all, but for the 401k I talked to an advisor thru Fidelity and they were able to target funds that made sense for where I'm at now. They are to review every 3 months to see if there are any moves to grow more and more. In doing so, I have seen a large growth, but can't say how much is my contributions and what is actual growth.

I have seen about a 60% increase in the last 1.5 months, including my own contributions. I do plan on growing the contributions 3-5% this year to really make it grow.

I want to save some money on the side to play with, but decided that my 401k probably isn't the best source for funds for that.
Link Posted: 1/16/2016 1:18:11 PM EDT
[#13]
OP,
maybe you should just leave your IRA funds as IRA funds and use new funds to do trading in a non IRA acct, start w/ a small amount and see how it goes.
Link Posted: 1/16/2016 1:32:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


a few comments.

1. buy this book.  it is not a math book.  it is a very important book to read.  understand it.  it is very important that you understand asset allocation because it is the single most important aspect in long term investment portfolio performance.  your 401k, as a tax-advantaged account, is an integral part of your asset allocation strategy -- so you need to understand how it fits in both from a tax perspective and from a holdings perspective.
http://www.amazon.com/About-Asset-Allocation-Second-Edition/dp/0071700781

2. you will ultimately have both taxable and tax-advantaged investment accounts.  there are advantages to holding certain assets in each.   READ THE BOOK ABOVE.  

3. costs matter -- a lot.  all else being equal, funds with lower costs will provide greater returns.  seek out the index funds in your 401k options.  

4. stay on course.  yanking and banking on your 401k holdings because of what your sister's boyfriend's cousin's father said will not result in good performance.  

5. read the right things.  below is a start.

ar-jedi





ETA

just be warned -- FatWallet Finance (FWF) folks have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MINDSET than typical ARFCOM'ers. FWF'ers are not beholden to the "victimization" in terms of financial matters that ARFCOM'ers are. to this end FWF'ers are not complaining to each other about getting screwed by their bank or credit card company; instead they are incessantly devising ways to screw the bank or credit card company. and, furthermore, take advantage of prevailing economic conditions whether good or bad.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I want to create a plan and then find places to put money I to for these goals and when to jump on buys and sells to build as needed.


a few comments.

1. buy this book.  it is not a math book.  it is a very important book to read.  understand it.  it is very important that you understand asset allocation because it is the single most important aspect in long term investment portfolio performance.  your 401k, as a tax-advantaged account, is an integral part of your asset allocation strategy -- so you need to understand how it fits in both from a tax perspective and from a holdings perspective.
http://www.amazon.com/About-Asset-Allocation-Second-Edition/dp/0071700781

2. you will ultimately have both taxable and tax-advantaged investment accounts.  there are advantages to holding certain assets in each.   READ THE BOOK ABOVE.  

3. costs matter -- a lot.  all else being equal, funds with lower costs will provide greater returns.  seek out the index funds in your 401k options.  

4. stay on course.  yanking and banking on your 401k holdings because of what your sister's boyfriend's cousin's father said will not result in good performance.  

5. read the right things.  below is a start.

ar-jedi


Posted: 12/17/2013 12:05:30 PM EST.

i attempted for two years to bring something resembling sanity into the B&I forum. in my experience there is little to be found there. every thread ended with a pile of people demanding that the OP buy precious metals and bullets, and completely ignore rational asset allocation approaches. i gave up. even Sisyphus gets tired.

if you want good, useful financial guidance from folks who have something more to offer:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/
FWF is like ARFCOM GD, only very finance-oriented. some of the stuff that folks suggest AND do in FWF is incredibly brilliant. some of it would cause members of the SF to run screaming from the room. note: you are going to need a thick skin if you want to toy with folks there. if you start a thread asking whether you should buy or lease a new car, you are going to get pummeled with replies about tacked threads. on the other hand i have seen some of the absolutely oddest scenarios played out and the advice given is top notch. there is a brazen honesty in both the OP's and the replies on FWF, which is simultaneously refreshing and also pushes aside some of the social tiptoeing that occurs in other forums. by the way, the "FWF vehicle of choice" is the Crown Vic PI edition...

http://socialize.morningstar.com/NewSocialize/asp/AllConv.asp?forumId=F100000026
morningstar's forums have a unique attribute: it costs $5 for a lifetime subscription, which enables you to post. that's it, you pay $5 once and you are good forever. the reason for this is that it completely removes the spammers, as well as the folks who just create an account to stir trouble. for this reason M* forums are the opposite of ARFCOM GD. that said, the Fidelity-specific forum on M* may seem like an odd place to point you to, but i assure you that a many of the folks in the T/A (technical analysis) and market/economy relevant threads in the Fido forum know EXACTLY what they are doing. if you do nothing but read the threads in M*'s Fido forum once a week for two months, i guarantee you will be way ahead of the curve on market economics. you can make a decent amount of money in the bond market (by buying or selling bond funds about every 6 months) doing nothing else other than monitoring threads in the M* Fidelity forum.

http://seekingalpha.com/
seeking alpha is quant-heaven. it is also one of the best places to get raw financial news, from folks that deal in finance, rather than folks that deal in "the news". for this reason you get unbridled analysis of trends and so on. e.g. http://seekingalpha.com/article/1903641-zero-hedge-is-wrong-about-gold
most of what is presented on SA is going to be slightly esoteric for the typical individual investor. nevertheless some of the information will provide a lot of insight into *why* certain companies or markets will succeed or will be doomed. i have to credit a story on SA for the single best investment that i ever made; in the 10 years that i owned it, it returned a stratospheric amount of money and i'm looking for a reentry point on it, although it's much less of a secret now.

http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/index.php
bogleheads is simultaneously the most user-friendly financial investing site but also the most religious. the "john bogle" way dictates investment behaviors which don't provide a lot of latitude. for example, a so-called boglehead would opine that the *only* way to invest in the equities market is via a total market index fund. why? because it has the lowest intrinsic cost, the most breadth and therefore the least risk, and statistically outperforms the majority of "managed money" in traditional mutual funds. i encourage you to get an account on bogleheads and inform them that they are all wrong, and that there is a better way. i'm exaggerating a bit here, of course. i will say that if you have a financial situation which you would like some advice on -- example, i'm 34, i have two young kids, i want them to go to college, what's the best way to invest so i can pay for it? -- you will get a variety of excellent ideas and positive advice from the folks on the bogleheads forum. bogleheads is another site where if you would just read once a week for a couple of months you will learn an incredible amount of useful, practical information.

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/
the religion at this forum is known as "FIRE" -- "financial independence, retire early" -- and it is the mantra of this website. the idea of FIRE is to "get off the merry-go-round" as soon as possible; that means different things to different people, but in the end it's the same: escape. read this forum and learning how people are planning to FIRE, how they are actually doing FIRE, and finally how they did FIRE. one thing you will notice is that these folks DO NOT SPEND MONEY ON NON-ESSENTIAL things. if you ever need to be told, "it's not what you make, it's what you save", well this is the place.

related to the above site is this tool:
http://www.firecalc.com/
(there is an entire forum at the above site discussing how to use/not misuse this tool, incidentally)
the point of this tool is straightforward in terms of answering questions: given you want to retire, how much will you need, how quickly will it be used up, and what return will you need? the tool uses Monte Carlo simulation to statistically work out the bounds of various market scenarios, and how they will affect your retirement monies.

ps
to finish up, the single text that i would advise folks pick up is Ferri's "All About Asset Allocation". after you read this the light will go on, and it will help you take "big picture" stock of your investments in totality. the $20 or whatever this book costs at Amazon will be repaid many times over.

ar-jedi




ETA

just be warned -- FatWallet Finance (FWF) folks have a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MINDSET than typical ARFCOM'ers. FWF'ers are not beholden to the "victimization" in terms of financial matters that ARFCOM'ers are. to this end FWF'ers are not complaining to each other about getting screwed by their bank or credit card company; instead they are incessantly devising ways to screw the bank or credit card company. and, furthermore, take advantage of prevailing economic conditions whether good or bad.


Love it when I find your posts
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