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Posted: 7/25/2012 9:17:30 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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Posted: 7/25/2012 9:27:58 PM
[Last Edit: 7/25/2012 9:35:47 PM by lvcipriani]
IANAL. My understanding is ERISA rules require 401k plan documents to be distributed to employees, and the vesting rules should have been covered in detail within them. You're saying you never received any 401k plan documentation? Was it all online and impossible to find? Companies usually outsource 401k plan handling to a financial services company. Some are excellent (e.g., Fidelity), some are a complete joke (no comment). I would suggest talking to a lawyer about your situation. Yes, I would be ticked off too.
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Posted: 7/25/2012 11:12:00 PM
I was upset when I talked to the John Hancock rep and they said that we had to have a paper signed to release the funds. That is when we found out about the 3rd party company. When I called the other company they said that there was basically no need for them to notify us. I was upset because of a $50 fee that they wanted to release the funds. When I asked about the disclosure and if any employees were informed I was told that they were going to start doing that next year. Part of me is really mad at myself for not checking this out myself, the other part is upset because no one bothered to inform my wife of any of this.
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Posted: 7/26/2012 2:23:40 AM
Of course a paper has to be signed to release the funds, they can't transfer money based on a phone call with a stranger. She will have to sign a distribution form, you will also have to sign it (spousal consent is required - it's technically your money, too) and you'll probably even have to get it notarized.
Everything you described down to the $50 fee is actually completely standard EXCEPT for the "not notifying your wife" part. Companies are required to give a Summary Plan Description to each participant upon enrollment which covers eligibility, vesting, etc. I would normally guess that your wife put away the info and forgot about it, but I believe many smaller companies do manage to "overlook" that responsibility - not maliciously in 99% of cases. If you hate the company and don't mind burning bridges, you could potentially cause problems for them by reporting them to the Dept. of Labor. However, keep in mind that this will NOT change the vesting on the employer contributions or the $50 fee. It won't get your wife a penny more. So unless you believe the vesting was calculated wrongly according to the terms of the plan, I would just chalk it up to experience and be sure to get all the info about future employer plans. If you do want to take action against her former employer, I would wait until after the money is transferred because the trustee of the plan also has to sign off on the transfer. I'm curious - your wife did get statements (at least quarterly) from John Hancock? Those should have had contact info and also a breakdown of the amount your wife contributed (if any, always 100% vested) and the amount her employer contributed along with the % and amount vested. I don't mean to sound harsh - there is no good excuse for an employer not to give all the Plan's info up front but... my main concern would be making sure the balance and vesting are correct (under the provisions of the plan which must be applied to all participants) and just move on. If you still want to give them trouble, like I said there's the DOL... |
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Posted: 7/26/2012 3:09:55 PM
As I said before I'm mostly to blame. The only statements I've ever seen in the couple of years she worked there were after she left. Otherwise they would be in the file with the rest of our investments. I believe that the HR person was supposed to hand them out and never did. I don't know. This is a smaller business and the HR lady screwed up all of the time. She has already cost us by filing our HSA wrong one year and mis-reporting our HSA the year before.
The paper I'm talking about wasn't the distribution paper. We already had that taken care of. The 3rd party benefits coordinator(that we had no knowledge of) had to release our money. The fee was to them, not the brokerage. We got the second statement after we started the rollover process. It is easier to have all of our investments in one place rather than all over. After we got the notice that the checks had cleared my wife said that they were short. I then looked at the last statement and realized that she wasn't vested. You are right, we don't have a chance of getting any of that money, but I find it questionable that all of these details have just been left out. Knowing these details from the beginning would have saved a bunch of frustration for all parties. |
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