|
|
Posted: 7/19/2012 1:15:06 AM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT made to the specs of the customer. A TRUE custom shop. I already do this, kind of. But on the side, not set up as a business. Not often enough to worry about it now. But I want to get into business and with any luck, make it pay the bills. I really have just one simple question: Once I file the paperwork to formally be in business, and have my occupational license, shop space, etc...how do I go about funding the business? Say I have 10,000 dollars in my personal bank account that I want to use to buy tools and equipment for the business' so I can get to work. How do I put MY 10,000 dollars into the business that I own? Later, I'd have to ask how I take my business profits and put them into my own account, although I can't say when that will happen, if ever. CJ |
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2012 3:53:00 AM
You can either loan or invest money in your company.
To loan you need a lawyer to draw up a debt contract listing terms and penalties then you loan the money to your business. The principal will not be taxed but the interest earned will be taxed on your income tax. I do not believe the loan is deductible for the company but the interest payed is. You can also just transfer it from your personel act to your business acct under "owner equity". You can withdrawl this at any time without penalty. The biggest difference is that in the end if the business fails by choosing the first option you can be a creditor and possibly receive a cut of the liquidation but if you are an investor then its just gone. My guess is that you are looking for the second option. Try searching for "invest vs loan" or " funding a startup" under tax law, or business topics |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2012 1:46:41 PM
Look up the various types of business and determine what type of business you want to start (sole proprietorship, corporation, etc).
As a sole proprietor, your money is the company's money. You just spend your own money and whatever you take in over your expenses is your profit (which is also your income). You don't need a separate bank account and if do you have one for the business, you can transfer money back and forth as much as you want. All of your accounting is done on your personal tax return. The downside of a sole proprietorship is that your personal assets are also liable in the event that something happens (IE. If you get sued for $10 million, you could lose your personal assets, house, money, etc). Given the fact that you have a pretty low-risk business (a defective guitar isn't likely to kill someone), you can probably get insurance that will cover any potential liabilites. Starting an LLC, or corporation will remove a lot of liability, but that is where you run into the issue of needing multiple accounts, separate accounting for your business, etc. If you want to fund a business through this, you can simply transfer the money into your business account and list it as a liability to the business. You would have a note payable for the amount owed to yourself. As for profits, you can pay them out as income, a bonus check, a dividend, etc. One downfall of a corporation is that your profits will be taxed twice. The corporation will be paying corporate tax on any profits, and then you will be paying income tax on whatever you get paid from the corporation. There are other alternatives (I think an S-Corp is one of them) that helps you avoid double taxation. For any option, your best bet would be to talk to a CPA and a lawyer. There are legal and tax advantages/disadvantages to either route and you need to determine what would be best for you. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2012 2:14:30 PM
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Once I file the paperwork to formally be in business, and have my occupational license, shop space, etc...how do I go about funding the business? Say I have 10,000 dollars in my personal bank account that I want to use to buy tools and equipment for the business' so I can get to work. How do I put MY 10,000 dollars into the business that I own? Get a good accountant. There are a lot of ways to put money in, some better than others if you ever want to get that money back OUT. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/19/2012 10:32:54 PM
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Once I file the paperwork to formally be in business, and have my occupational license, shop space, etc...how do I go about funding the business? Say I have 10,000 dollars in my personal bank account that I want to use to buy tools and equipment for the business' so I can get to work. How do I put MY 10,000 dollars into the business that I own? Later, I'd have to ask how I take my business profits and put them into my own account, although I can't say when that will happen, if ever. I've owned several businesses from sole proprietorships, S Corps, C Corps, LLC's, LP's and complicated entity structuring strategies, it all depends upon your market, risks, and what you are trying to accomplish (e.g., protect profits from taxation, limit liability, judgment proofing assets &c). Once you become profitable there are strategies you can use to your advantage, but you really aren't there yet. Your last statement concerns me in regard to the first. There's not a lot of confidence regarding your profitability upon which you are suggesting filing some type of paperwork, licensing &c. I don't want to rain on your parade, or discourage you, but there are realities you need to be aware of. What is your market, where is it (interstate, intrastate), how will you obtain customers, how will they be paying you, what about raw materials - are there any regulatory issues on any exotic woods, glues, &c. Can you share those types of things? I can tell you this from my experience - there is one major impediment to success, one particular that is dedicated to your failure, that will cause you more heartache, heartburn, high blood pressure, anger, frustration, and downright eat out the substance of your soul, that is governmental regulation. The civil government is not your friend and everything comes with strings. I don't know what type, if any, regulatory issues you might face in a business like that but all of the regulation whether it is taxes or business licenses &c are there to control and preemptively punish you. The civil government is the avowed enemy of free enterprise, they are liars, thieves, cheats, swindlers - there is not a more wretched hive of villiany and scum than civil government. But I'm jaded, after many decades of business ownership. But that is the # 1 enemy of every small business. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/20/2012 6:58:06 AM
Originally Posted By Col-W:
[ I can tell you this from my experience - there is one major impediment to success, one particular that is dedicated to your failure, that will cause you more heartache, heartburn, high blood pressure, anger, frustration, and downright eat out the substance of your soul, that is governmental regulation. The civil government is not your friend and everything comes with strings. I don't know what type, if any, regulatory issues you might face in a business like that but all of the regulation whether it is taxes or business licenses &c are there to control and preemptively punish you. The civil government is the avowed enemy of free enterprise, they are liars, thieves, cheats, swindlers - there is not a more wretched hive of villiany and scum than civil government. But I'm jaded, after many decades of business ownership. But that is the # 1 enemy of every small business. You obviously missed the memo. Emperor Obama (pbuh) said just the other day that you didn't actually build any of those businesses, you had lots of government help so I see no reason to get huffy when they help themselves to a little slice of the pie too.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/23/2012 11:45:55 PM
I'm a CPA and have been in the business of advising for several years. You need to contact a local CPA. Get someone to refer a CPA to you. Spend the money. Don't go to a firm with 5 partners and 20 staff. Find a smaller firm with one CPA/owner and a few staff. You'll get better pricing and great advice. I could take several minutes to pick apart the other posts and point out the errors, but I'll pass. Vodka and grapefruit juice is calling me.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 7/24/2012 8:25:20 AM
Originally Posted By ricky_45:
I'm a CPA and have been in the business of advising for several years. You need to contact a local CPA. Get someone to refer a CPA to you. Spend the money. Don't go to a firm with 5 partners and 20 staff. Find a smaller firm with one CPA/owner and a few staff. You'll get better pricing and great advice. I could take several minutes to pick apart the other posts and point out the errors, but I'll pass. Vodka and grapefruit juice is calling me. +1 to everything he said. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2012 10:41:35 PM
Also: do you intend to be a one man shop or take on employees? Offer insurance and benefits? Grow big or stay small? One owner (you) or take on partners? Own property? How about liability insurance? And never mind the unholy terror of regulations you'll start to fall under after you get past a few employees.
Tons of thought and outlook required just to figure out C corp/S corp/LLC/LP/LLP/sole proprietorship. It's a jungle out there. Happy hunting. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/2/2012 11:00:38 PM
Start small, solo act. Take commissions, deliver instruments, save my money for growth. Add CNC equipment when possible, so as to have the ability to
speed up production by automating the repetitive and time consuming tasks. Grow further. Take on my first employee. Hope he (or she) can help to bring in more business and/or speed up the delivery timeline. Grow as I can, how I can, when I can. That's the idea. I've found a workshop space that suits my needs for now. 800 square feet, air conditioned, with 3 phase power, for 500 bucks a month total cost. That's more than twice as big as my garage and existing workshop space combined, at a rate I can afford...barely. I've got two commissions already. I'm not even formally in business yet. CJ |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/10/2012 5:24:58 PM
Start reading business books. I like the "For Dummies" series. For me, starting an LLC was best to keep myself and my fellow member personally safe from the business' creditors and lawsuits and the business and each other safe from perrsonal ones. My accountant helped me choose to be taxed as a C corp and to use cash accounting vs accrual. Before I take on customers, I'll acquire insurance. Before I do business, my accountant will set up my bookkeeping system.
By doing business without the protections afforded by formal organization, you risk losing your personal property. By doing business before being able to account for profit and costs, you risk getting yourself into a bookkeeping mess and owing more to the IRS than you should and underestimating the true cost of an instrument. Do your homework,keep all your receipts, keep records of expenses and your time and for the love of god hire an accountant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2012 10:15:28 AM
Go back and read the last paragraph of my post from a couple or three weeks ago - I knew nothing about the following at the time, but you need to check
out this link that showed up in my inbox this morning. What does Fish and Wildlife have to do with Guitar making? Ask Gibson Guitar - as I said the number one enemy of every business, something as docile and harmless as making a musical instrument can find oneself being invaded by machine toting SWAT teams. Gibson Settlement "
Gibson Settles with Department of Justice
Government Agrees it Will Not Prosecute Any Criminal Action Against Gibson After many weeks of negotiation, Gibson has settled all issues with the U.S. Government and the Department of Justice. CEO Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We felt compelled to settle as the costs of proving our case at trial would have cost millions of dollars and taken a very long time to resolve. This allows us to get back to the business of making guitars. An important part of the settlement is that we are getting back the materials seized in a second armed raid on our factories and we have formal acknowledgement that we can continue to source rosewood and ebony fingerboards from India, as we have done for many decades." Despite the fact that, "...the government acknowledges that Gibson has cooperated with the Government and the investigation conducted by the Fish and Wildlife Service", Gibson was subject to two hostile raids on its factories by agents carrying weapons and attired in SWAT gear where employees were forced out of the premises, the production was shut down, goods were seized as contraband, and threats were made that would have forced the business to close. CEO Henry Juszkiewicz commented, "We feel that Gibson was inappropriately targeted, and a matter that could have been addressed with a simple contact by a caring human being representing the Government. Instead, the Government used violent and hostile means with the full force of the U.S. Government and several armed law enforcement agencies costing the taxpayer millions of dollars and putting a job-creating U.S. manufacturer at risk and at a competitive disadvantage. This shows the increasing trend on the part of the Government to criminalize rules and regulations and treat U.S. businesses in the same way drug dealers are treated. This is wrong and it is unfair. I am committed to working hard to correct the inequity that the law allows and ensure there is fairness, due process, and the law is used for its intended purpose of stopping bad guys and stopping the very real deforestation of our planet." |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/11/2012 10:41:32 AM
[Last Edit: 8/11/2012 10:44:09 AM by cmjohnson]
I'm extremely aware of the Gibson debacle. It was political payback as Gibson's owner is Republican, donates to Republican
candidates, runs a non-union shop, and the other major US guitar makers are all union shops run by democrats. I also will not be making significant purchases of woods in any noticeable quantity for at least several years to come. I buy literally enough to build one or two instruments at a time, and from fully legal, certified vendors. I DO work in some woods that can't be exported from the US under the Lacey Act, but once my existing stock of those woods is gone, I doubt I'll ever get more. Nor will I be making a guitar for export anyway. US customers only. If the buyer chooses to try to export a guitar I made for him, afterwards, he's strictly on his own with regard to complying with customs and US laws. Fortunately, there are quite a number of "legal" wood choices available to me. If I can't get Brazilian Rosewood fingerboards anymore, it doesn't matter. There are plenty of excellent alternatives. Some "experimental" woods for guitar making are turning out to be tonally superior to even the most revered "holy grail" woods. And those experimental woods are readily available, inexpensive, and their supply is assured for a very long time to come as they are managed using sustainable practices. I'm working on writing up a business plan. I need to set up a business name (selected) and get the relevant business licenses. Business type will be an LLC or sole proprietorship. I will not have any employees for the foreseeable future. I'll be talking to the accountant that does the books for where I work and see what he thinks. An SBA loan is probably in my future. I'm learning about that process. I'll be talking to a business mentorship group as well. And I'm building instruments for stock, to have a showable product. CJ |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2012 12:43:59 PM
Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I'm extremely aware of the Gibson debacle. It was political payback as Gibson's owner is Republican, donates to Republican candidates, runs a non-union shop, and the other major US guitar makers are all union shops run by democrats. If that is true then the scenario is much worse than I understood it. Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I also will not be making significant purchases of woods in any noticeable quantity for at least several years to come. I buy literally enough to build one or two instruments at a time, and from fully legal, certified vendors. And, of course, this doesn't matter when the arms of some alphabet agency are potentially wielded for political purposes over some vendetta as the above example. Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
I'm working on writing up a business plan. I need to set up a business name (selected) and get the relevant business licenses. Business type will be an LLC or sole proprietorship. I will not have any employees for the foreseeable future. I'll be talking to the accountant that does the books for where I work and see what he thinks. An SBA loan is probably in my future. I'm learning about that process. I'll be talking to a business mentorship group as well. And I'm building instruments for stock, to have a showable product. CJ My suggestion for your consideration is to save your capital at the moment and operate under a sole proprietorship using this opportunity to build your samples and get a more targeted perspective on your business plan and what type of revenues you can produce, you can always incorporate at any time. It's much much much easier to entangle yourself in law than it is to untangle yourself. Here's the issue - the vast majority of the time we are considering incorporation for tax and liability purposes and also because there is an element in which we impute legitimacy to something established by the State. For a lot of people that franchise allows them to overcome a character hurdle, an act of State creating a fictional legal person whose shoes they can step into separating themselves from their personal life. I'm not suggesting that is your case, but those two sentences cover probably the primary issues of why a small start up enterprise is considering incorporation. When it's the former it is sold to us under the auspices of those tax advantages and liability laws protecting our assets from the evil in the world and I used to think like that; today I've come to realize through the pain of experience that its more like a carrot on a stick. The same people that grant the incorporation are the ones that create the tax and liability laws granting special favors to the franchise and our patriotism and inherit love of country is a great weapon used against us. What we don't realize, at the time of considering it, is what that does to us and the change of legal status and the concept of "rights" exercised by a living person vs a fictional one. Today, and I'll admit that I'm jaded but its not from some tin foil hat but rather repetitive experience, is that the first concern one better have is how do I protect myself from government? It may have been advantageous to contemplate protecting oneself from the thief and criminal out on the street at one time in our past, today that is no longer the case - they are a secondary or tertiary concern, the primary and number one concern is how does a person protect themselves from civil government. How can they use incorporation to harm me, and is that harm potentially more fatal than the potential risks of not incorporating? The reality of life is that the heart is connected to property, you as a individual that doesn't plan on having employees for the foreseeable future, will be creating this property. It will be an expression of your heart and mind through your hands and the fact is the small businessman doing something like you are doing does not psychologically operate through a corporation commensurate with the legal reality established in the franchise. The reality is that the franchise can form a trap because you have to be able to separate property from your person with a very stout vertical division placing no more weight upon it for a corporation whose stock you own that you would if employed by Gibson Guitar. In other words, think long and hard about legally dividing yourself from ownership and creation of the property and then reconnecting that through stock ownership. It is NOT the same thing. I would suggest you read the Supreme Court case entitled Hale v Henkel because it explains the legal differences between human beings and legal fictions and how the Constitution applies. Get a good understanding of this because it is, as I said earlier, much easier to entangle yourself than to untangle yourself, and in many ways it is much like tripping into a spiral of barbwire hidden in the high grass of a field. The difference is you won't know you are entangled in it until some point comes along where you attempt to sustain your heart, mind and labor of your hands with the property you created in contradiction to the law of the corporation that segregated that. If you think that will never happen to you, oh yes it will, that is the only certain thing I know you can rely upon is some usurpation, some infringement, some injustice, something that will so affront your conscience committed by civil government that you'll become outraged. You see, what you don't know is that any forward movement in terms of that within the legal infrastructure of incorporation sinks meat hooks deeper and deeper and deeper into you and the civil government knows that, that is what they want - every small business entangled so tightly in civil laws that it frees the civil government from the restraints of the Constitution. In turn, they will come slap and spit in your face just to entice you to fight with them and its like that movie Hell Raiser once you do - all of a sudden these chains with meathooks sling out and stick into you and as your progressively pulled forward into the darkness to the face of Pinhead. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/12/2012 1:54:22 PM
![]() You raised points for consideration that I'd never given any thought to. I shall do some reading about these issues. CJ |
|