Man, I'm jealous of you guys and your cool toys. Being lowly reserve trans blows when it comes to getting gear. We didn't have a single M4 or A4 in the entire unit, no optics (each platoon had maybe one night scope for the SAW's), and we'd have one set of NVG's per truck.

Just about everything's been said already, so I'll just reiterate what I think the three most important points are.

1. Commo training. Everyone should know how to fill and use the radios, including what the freq's and call signs are for all the units in your AO.
2. Medical training. 250 people in our company and not a single medic, so just about everyone was CLS qualified.
3. Training on all weapons. Some genius thought it would be a good idea to only have two people in my platoon qualified on the Mk19. Those same two guys were gone within the first few months for medical/family reasons. After that we resorted to using anyone that thought they had a clue. There were a few missions I ended up with a rickety M60 that looked like it'd been through 'Nam, even though I'd never even held a 60 before that.

I really don't have much to add to what's already been said, unless anyone has questions about the PLS
Seriously though, I've got nothing.

I did some time back in 2003. A few things worked really well for me:

Fixed blade knife: Gerber LMF. An original 1990's model. Great knife, I've since replaced it with the new LMF II and like that one just as well.

Folding knife: Benchmade Auto. Get ahold of at least 1 of these. This is the best folder I've ever used.

Multi-tool: Gerber Legend. I got it shortly before deployment in early '03 and it is still going strong. Great tool, much better than the issue Gerber.

Beef Jerky. Nuff said.

Chew. I could get Skoal sometimes, but I chewed Kodiak Ice. Find a source stateside and have them ship you a fresh log every week or two.

Books. Rather than waste away playing video games, I read books a lot. Military type books, classics, whatever. My Dad sent me stuff he read when he was on a submarine in the 70's and I loved it.

i can only second many things that have been said here. but i will say that make contacts with the people on the FOB or Camp you are at. it works great. i have used them quite a bit and the support i have recieved from them is superb.

get a surefire light they are great for night ops.

i will say this get the gear you want before you leave if you have the time to do so. there is so much out there. the best thing to do when you get here is listen to the guys who have been there for a while they know alot about the AO they are in.

best of luck to those coming here. our job is getting tougher everyday.

Things that work- chapstick, 1 for your lips and 1 for your nose! try not to mix them up. Anti persperent for your crotch, it helps with monkey butt and if your a gunner, the other guys in the truck will thank you! The black socks you can buy at wal-mart, 12 pair for like 5 bucks, they work just fine. Mechanic gloves work good too, or the flight gloves, your weapon will get hot just sitting there. If your working on your vehicle, using loud equipment wear your damn ear protection, if your outside the wire on patrol, forget about it.
Did we mention Commo training enough? That includes 9-line, lace reports etc. Try to get ahold of some of the hemo-stat powder/bricks, we have used them, they work. The israili tournequit, get some, share the wealth. A metal chair with a hole in it, on missions you won't have the nice smelly porta-crappers, and it is much better than an MRE box with a hole in it. Belive it or not, a hatchet. works great for a hammer or a hillbilly tool, I've used it to remove a broken stud when we had a HUMMV tire blasted. (do not try to go Apache on anyone, you'll get beat up)

Originally Posted By nf9648: What I need really bad right now is a NSN for a mount that will allow me to use a PVS-7A with the mount in the ACH. I have 5 PVS-7Ds that work, and 87 PVS-7As that dont. Gotta be something out there.

This doesn't work?

AN/PVS-7B New Style Kevlar Mount -5855- 01-457-2953

Remind me again- what's the difference from the -A, and -D PVS-7 that is not the same for the 7B? I thought it was just different BII/AAI.

Let me do some fact checking and I'll get back with you via IM.

*Have you contacted an LAR from TACCOM? They are a HUGE resource.

This page is a good source of NSNs http://www.romad.com/equipment.htm


Toad

Originally Posted By Matt45: I CANNOT STRESS THIS ENOUGH. EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW, THAT WHILE YOU APPRECIATE SOAP, LAUNDRY POWDER, AND SUCH, TO PLEASE(!) SEND IT SEPERATE FROM FOODSTUFFS. I CANNOT TELL YOU HOW MANY TIDE-FLAVORED LIFESAVERS I'VE EATEN AND ZESTFULLY CLEAN BROWNIES SUCK BUTT.

I pray that you are safe! On a side note, that gave me a good laugh.

Frags are great for breaking contact. Apparently so is smoke. They have many uses, keep some on hand.

Belt-fed guns are your friend. Never leave a belt-fed behind, leave the M-4 instead.

Keep your Lasers zeroed! Check them from time to time, best to be surprised on your own time. Boresighting in your tent is no substitute for the range at 100meters, or even 25m if that's all you have in the IZ still.

Special Forces doesn't make anyone special: Special Forces people make Special Forces special. You don't have to be SF to be smart, to adapt and overcome. SF has shortages just like the rest of the military, they deal with it. You can too.

Do you have rescue equipment in your vehicle? Do you know how to use it? High lift jack and chains, sawzall, or better yet a rescue specific angle grinder...

If your issue geat is crap, seriously consider buying your own kit. Tailor it to your real mission, don't just get what looks cool or whatever everyone else has.

Headlamps make better flashlights in many circumstances. But have a Surefire (or equivalent) on you at all times.

Smartwool socks, even when it's 130 degrees.

If you carry your pistol cross-draw in your vest, does it catch your sling when you transition? Practice.

Perfect practice is the only practice that matters. If you're running finger drills, call it a day and pick up later.

Hatch operator nomex may cost $10 more than issue aviator gloves, but they last twice as long. So by that logic they're cheaper. If another brand is even better, tell your friends.

Oakley boots are really nice boots for about two months. There's better stuff for the money from Vasque, Lowa, Blackwatergear, ....

Don't do anything because it looks cool, do it because it works. If I'm a designated marksman, I'm looking to trade my M-4 for an M-16 that hits harder and is likely to be more accurate. If I'm on patrol out in the mountains or other rural areas, I'm looking to trade my eotech for an ACOG.... Cool? Going home is cool.

Ear protection: $200-350 for Peltors, depending on the model, is worth it!!! If you don't get issued elecrtronic ear pro, buy it yourself.

Wear your helmet. Nothing is dumber than the guy who doesn't want to wear a helmet because he saw a movie where the SF guys don's wear helmets. Same goes for your body armor. I had the option to wear anything I wanted, or nothing at all. I looked like a perfect leg at all times. I'm alive and very healthy.

Training: planning, driving, shooting, commo and medicine. You can be the best CLS in your platoon, but if you can't call the bird your buddy dies.

Intel: know where to get it. Your plan is not finished until it's based on known updated information.
Intel: you are your best intel, aar's save lives. the follow on mission should send a member to your aar and not simply rely on S2 to make it pretty for them. Send a member of your patrol to the last patrol's aar.

Be able to change a tire in 90 seconds. Better yet, use run-flats.

After about 105 degrees more clothes will keep you cooler than less clothes.

If it'll make your job easier, buy it. You'll regret it later, out in the field, and miserable.

Eye protection: wear it. Oakley, WileyX, Gargoils, ESS...just wear something. I don't care about your eyesight, I just need you to be able to see to shoot back and not sniveling over there with your face in your hands.

Camelbak: don't give in to the hype that you can have a cooler in your humvee. What do you do when the humvee stops, or loses 1500 lbs of the part where you keep the cooler? What if you have to E&E 5K back to a rally-point, then wait there for nightfall and it's only 0830? You may not wear it, but at least keep it handy. Plus it's a nice place for magazines, grenades, gps batteries, vs-17 panel...

GPS: everyone on your patrol needs to know how to use it. The more the marrier. Buy one at the PX, it's the new compass.

Compass and map. The gps may trick you, but the map never lies. Never assume you're patrol will run you through known areas and back to base. What if you have to quick reaction for another patrol or contractors or a chopper down?

Contractors: plan, train, rehearse. Don't assume your new guy knows what he's doing just because he says he was in such-n-such unit. You are what you do. I've seen real eggheads with great resumes, and top-notch guys with bland resumes. And no-one is ever too squared away to train. "I was SAS" is no excuse to not train. Anybody who says they did all the learning they'll ever need in such-n-such unit was probably never in that unit.

PMCS your vehicle before EVERY run.

Keep your windows clean enough to lick.

Contractors running low profile: keep your damn vehicles clean. Iraqis are poor enough that a vehicle is their prized posetion and they tend to keep them clean. I've seen them wash their cars every night, even if they didn't drive that day. You're not "fitting in" by being a dirty foreigner.

Contractors keep your heads on swivels. I almost lost a freind (lead in the lung) because he was being a good employee and not looking around because his boss said it attracted attention. He knew something was amiss and turned to check out a suspicious van moving up alongside. He shot first, blowing out his closed window. He still caught AK frag, but would have died if he hadn't been a split second quicker. This isn't just about heads on swivels, its about doing what's right or quitting because you can. As it stands, 3/5 of the friends I've lost died from terminal "fuck it lets go" syndrome. Being low profile doesn't mean you can't wear body armor (my friend with the lead in the lung wouln't have even gotten that much if he'd been wearing armor), and it doesn't mean wearing shemags that aren't even worn correctly. It just means not making a big red-assed foreigner of yourself shooting anything that gets within 100m of your vihicle. You still need to scan every single car that approaches you, and rule it out or fire. Get super dark tint. Go 5mph faster than traffic (but not 25mph-those-guys-are-contractors faster).

If you're going high profile, be more high profile than a PKM or 240 hanging out the back: have a keep back sign and enforce it. If you're zipped up in a tinted out suburban, you're not high profile, and you're going to be aproached. Shoot a journalist in these political times and you might end up in jail. It aint 2004 anymore.

Armor your vehicle if it isn't already. Between car steel and water/fuel blivet material you can get good results. Get ballistic blankets where and when you can. scrounge armor steel from depots. improvise.

Smuggle alcohol. Just not in empty mouthwash containers. Unless it's peppermint schnapps. Ok, that's just for fun, but seriously, if you're going to risk it, don't even think about it prior to missions. And don't be dehydrated come departure time. Handling your liquor in a combat zone means being fully mission ready, not working through a hangover because you think you're tough. You end up in the back of a humvee with an IV and you're worse than useless, you're a liability.

Make friends, you'll need them, and be amazed at how they come through for you. Don't ignore a guy because he's a leg or a commo geek. We were all legs and geeks before we got hi-speed, and we're still the same people. I made friends with a guy once who turned out to be a unit armorer. He did several thousand dollars worth of work for my team for Big Red and Dr. Pepper. Another guy provided us with many thousands of dollars worth of time and services for Cheetos and Burger King. Nothing illegal, just wouldn't have thought of it if we hadn't made friends outside our knuckle-dragging comfort zone.

Trade. Three things you don't need and three things you do? That's one and the same my brothers and sisters.

It's 2006. Get a sattelite phone for chris'sakes. If you're a PL and your platoon doesn't have one, it's your responsibility as the most money-to-age-ratio. OK, I'm being a little facesious here, but seriously, if you can afford it, it really makes life better. Use one for tactical purposes only, and PMCS it before every mission. If the troops want to call momma, then buy another one. That's the PSG's responsibility as the, um, well, it's his responsibility because the PL already bought one and you're next on the list. Troops pay for their own minutes of course. Phones are locked down by SOP for 24-72 hrs following any casualty. Do NOT let that shit get to the family before the proper authority, even on accident.

Enjoy life. Have big parties for your Iraqi or Afghan troops. Have big parties for yourselves. Schedule fun. Go fishing in one of Saddams ponds. Piss on one of Saddams things. Unless the BC is currently using it.

Binoculars: keep a small pair handy. You get what you pay for, but I haven't found anything that comes close to the bang for the buck you get from a pair of $50-100 Nikon fieldstarIII binocs ($89 at REI, $49 at Sierratradingpost). I've got a pair about to go on a third tour while my buddy's pocket Steiners crapped out after 5 months in A-stan.

First aid: train and retrain on this, also become good friends with your medic and get as much supply of bandages, IV bags, etc.

Super cool gear: keep the spending to a minimum or what you think that you'll need. FNG's and cherry's, you need this gear about as much as a fat kid needs chocolate. Use what you are issued and then figure out if you need something better later, most of you won't even know how to use the stuff. E2's shouldn't be buying 200+ bucks of tactical gear anyways.

Weapon mods: same as the above, also make sure that your company/unit will authorize you to install or use.

Range time: get as much as you can, double this for SDM's and find a range that will have targets out past 300m.

Eye pro: get a good brand like Oakley, the cheapo stuff will not last long and you will spend more in the long run replacing the cheap stuff than if you just bought a expensive pair the first time.

Combat uniform: wear what your unit tells you to and do not slack on this, your life could count on it. If you are a leader then enforce the fucking standard!

Camel-back: don't use it much anymore, instead I carry a bottle of water in my cargo pocket.

Good quality multi-tool: these will be used almost everyday for something, leave the 7" rambo blade at home guys you won't need it.

cold weather gear: winter time it gets cold and normally has rain with it, make sure you got something good.

Smoke grenades: carry one or more!

"Speed ball": this is what my unit calls its emergency bag of extra M4 mags, SAW drums, and just anything else that goes boom or will kill a person. Have one with as much ammo possible stored in a location in the vehicle that a person inside could grab and kick out to the guys on the ground in a hurry.

Cleaning kit: get a good one and a bore snake, dental picks, and anything that you think you will need to get your weapon clean. Leaders should ensure that their men are cleaning their weapons daily and should ensure that their men have the special tools (i.e SAW tool, M240 tool, 203 bore brush, etc) that they need.

Originally Posted By ajm1911: bump for the night crew These suggestions are great but am always looking for more. Friend suggested this 3 things you wish you'd left 3 things you wish you'd had

Wish that I had left:
M68, hate these things. Though it is the back up for my back up Eotech, I would rather have left back in the rear.
Cold weather boots, never have worn them and besides you can always double up on socks.
credit card, yeah its a little easy to spend money over here.

Wish that I had:
MK262 ammo, though the M855 ammunition as worked for me I still follow the "its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it" motto.
Sound suppressor, would be nice for those times that you want the element of surprise only to have it ruined by some dog barking its head off. Not a good feeling during a OP where its just you and 5 other guys and support is a couple of clicks away.
10.5" upper, would be nice for clearing rooms or going through these narrow doors and alleys.

Seriously though I wish that I had new mags, PEQ-2's for my whole team, and more trigger time for my guys. Also the 10.5" upper would be nice.

My NG buddy that just returned said staying friendly with the Marines and the Seebees improved his units quality of life greatly.

The marines always had plenty of ammo and demo when the NG was running low and the SeeBees hoked them up with building supplies to improve the trailers and conex boxes they were living in.

Originally Posted By ChrisLe: Here's a few I've previously posted. They're geared towards medics, but there's info for all: 1. Always wear your issued ballistic goggles. You ‘should ‘get issued WileyX goggles with both clear and tinted lenses. If not, buy your own ballistic goggles before you go over. Wear them 24/7 when you’re outside your FOB. I can’t count the amount of people that lost eyes from IED attacks because they were not wearing their goggles. Wear them!! 2. Wear your SAPI plates! They have saved countless lives by stopping 7.62 rounds and huge chunks of shrapnel…They weigh a ton and you’ll sweat like a whore in church while wearing them but they will save your life. 3. Always keep your hands inside of the armor side plates when riding in the back of a HMMWV. The tendency to rest your weapon on the armor, pointing outboard, with your hand outstretched holding the barrel in the ready position is natural but extremely dangerous. If an IED hits, you WILL lose your arm…. 4. Know your AO like the back of your hand. It’s the single most improtant way you will be able to identify IED’s before they get you. You will be traveling the same roads over and over again day after day. Do not sit in the HMMWV and jerk around while you’re out there. Memorize every dirt mound, light pole, stop sign, garbage pile, depression, car, etc in your AO. In time you will be able to ‘sense’ that there is something not right about a certain spot or object on the road. For example: We noticed one day that a stop sign in our AO was missing from an intersection. Miraculously, it reappeared the next day. BIG RED FLAG!! We stopped at a distance, circled around behind it, and found that they had removed it, lined the back of the sign with a ½ inch layer of plastic explosives with ball bearings embedded in it, and then replaced it on the pole. Had we not recognized that it was missing and then reappeared, and continued to drive by it, it would have decimated us as it was 6’ off the ground (head level above the level of a HMMWV’s armor plating). Know your AO!! 5. If you’re HMMWV has a fording stack, get rid of it ASAP. It impedes the passenger’s ability to scan the side of the road for abnormalities… 6. When traveling along the MSR’s be especially wary when you drive by villages. Many IED’s are located near villages that abut the MSR because it affords the insurgents numerous hiding spots from which to command detonate the IED. 7. Beg, borrow, or steal as many tourniquets as you can. Assign one to every member of your squad or unit, teach them how to use them, and be sure it’s carried on their person 24/7. There is no way to describe the carnage that an IED or a 122 mm rocket creates. They will tear off limbs in an instant and tourniquet may be the difference between life and death if arteries are severed. Even in your FOB, where you are constantly rocketed, one should carry tourniquets….

Wiley X eye pro sucks. The ESS goggles are much better.
They are E-SAPI plates now. The equivilent of what used to be used as chest/back plates are now in what are called "Side SAPI's"
We rode with our windows up at all times, so arms/hands were never sticking out to get blown off. Our ears would ring post blast, but that was it.
Knowing the AO requires you get out of the truck and walk around. Easily half of our missions were "meet and greets".
Our fording stacks got pulled before we rolled north from Kuwait.
That is yet another reason to not use the main roads. And to never use the same route in that you took out.
Tourniquets are now standard issue in the new Improved First Aid Kits, along with tape, a nasal-phrangeal airway, Israeli dressing and gloves. All of it on a nice little panel with elastic loops to keep items secure and a "telephone cord" so if the pouch comes open, you won't lose all the stuff.

GB
Scout, 2/8IN, 4ID
OIF 05/07
FOB Kalsu, Iraq

Points to consider: Does it take batteries? Hard-to-find batteries? Do you need to recharge it? How long does it take to recharge? Do you have any other devices that take the same batteries? Do you have all of the cables and software for your stuff? Can you use one cable for multiple devices? Start thinking about this stuff, you’ll want to pare your gear down to fit your allotted bags/ trunk space.

LED headlamp – Uses very little power, small, good for buddy aid/ self-aid, deliberate searches, walking on the FOB (no streetlights), etc. Make sure it has a red lens or is red LED-capable.

Digital Camera – You’ll work with some cool motherfuckers and see some cool shit and you’ll want to remember some of that. Photos help. Send some pics back to your relatives so they remember what you look like. Don’t Forget: Make sure you have the right kind of batteries, a good case and spare memory cards.

Laptop – I recommend a very small one, it needs to pack away well and fit a small living space. If you want easier typing, ask for a keyboard in a care package or buy one from your local Haj-Mart. Games, audio, writing letters, movies, organizing photos, work (if you do this, make sure it’s checked out by your S2). If you have the option, don’t get a very expensive unit as it’ll probably get pretty fucked up by sand, bumps, living in cramped quarters, etc. Don’t Forget: Consider putting it on your renters/ home-owners insurance if it’s a very nice laptop.

MP3 player – Audiobooks, movies (movies converted to audio), photos, data storage, etc. Make sure you have conversion software, backup software, stuff like that. Don’t Forget: Headphones and a pair of portable speakers. TIP: Don't bother with iTunes, you won't be able to use it overseas unless you have your own commercial internet access... which you probably won't have.

Shooting gloves – For protecting your hands dumbass. Don’t skimp on quality, they’re your hands. Note the size in your photo-catalog for when you need spares.

Flash Drive – Good for transferring photos, music, video footage from a buddy. Consider getting another one for work as they’re great for Powerpoint OPORDERs and target packages, but you can’t use it for personal anything (again, it’s gotta have a SECRET sticker on it from S2). TIP: to save your precious time at the computer lab, write your emails beforehand on your personal laptop and just take them to the internet café to transmit.

Nalgene Bottle – Or another 32 oz. polycarbonate bottle. Good for a lot of shit, mixing protein drinks (for weightlifters), cocoa, coffee, hydration drink mixes, ramen, MRE drink mixes, etc. They don’t leach a lot of harmful shit into your water like Gatorade bottles do. Scribble your name or put some stickers on it so you know it’s yours. TIP: They make a lot of accessories for these, coffee-presses, drink spouts, shit like that.

Waterproof notebook – Or waterproof index cards, sweat will destroy regular paper. Ink will run, so consider your favorite brand of mechanical pencil as well. If you use index cards, binder clips from OfficeMax kick ass for keeping that shit together. TIP: Chances are you can get a notebook from your supply sergeant, that means a lot of others have one like yours, personalize it.

Pocketknife – You aren’t a ninja, you don’t need a Rambo-survival knife and are probably not going to cut anybody’s throat anytime soon. Keep it small, make sure it has a clip on it (so it sticks around a while) and consider whether or not you want to be able to take it apart for cleaning. Get a sharpening stone and learn to sharpen the damned thing, you’ll have plenty of time for it.

Multi-tool – What do you need it for? Get one that suits those needs. There are a million different types and chances are there is one out there that fits your exact needs. TIP: Get a pouch for putting it on your FLC, consider getting one that you can disassemble and keep it’s disassembly tool in your cleaning kit.

Mini-Snaplinks – These are those miniature carabiners that are popular as keychains. They’re invaluable for securing NODs to your helmet, gloves to your FLC, chemlights, shit like that. There are a million uses for these, get a few.

Reading List – 1. Make a list of subjects that you want to read about. 2. Get books on those subjects. 3. Read them.

Sandals – Flip-flops, Carolina Wingtips, thongs, whatever you call them, make sure they’re marked with your name and make them individual. Annoying, colorful, whatever… if they’re stolen from the shower you’ll know who took them. Don’t skimp on quality, it sucks walking to the shower in the dark with broken sandals.

Annoying Beachtowel – Make it large, the tiny issue brown towels don’t cover up my 6-foot-plus frame. Make it annoying and mark it with your name in a few places, so you know it’s yours even if that Bangladeshi KBR worker tears a corner off of it.

Small Photo Album/ Printed Pictures – Not a digital photo library, you need something you can tape up and see as you pass through your living quarters between missions. Little pictures inside your helmet are cool, just make sure they aren’t naughty or contain information that can be used against you if it’s lost. It would suck if your girlfriend or spouse got a phone call from Al Qaida or some Iraqi dipshit somewhere in Europe or Southwest Asia saying you were dead .

Pillow and Bedsheets – Get some regular sheets and pillow for your bed, it’ll help you relax after missions, hell… you might even be able to feel like you’re at home for a few minutes. If you use dryer sheets at home, consider asking for a few for your laundry if you can do it yourself, I had a dryer and washer at my compound, a lot of guys I knew did this.

Bore Snake – Easy to use between missions. Some people don’t like how they don’t get the barrel squeaky clean, but it’s quick and does a decent job.

List Of NSNs – A list of National Stock Numbers for ordering shit from Supply, they conveniently *ahem* forget or miswrite the NSNs for your order sometimes so your request doesn’t get completed. Gather what you can from here and add to it.

Baseball Cap/ Tee Shirts – Your favorite sports team, hunting camo pattern, whatever. You’ll have a space where you can just be yourself, this’ll help you keep your head straight.

Handkerchiefs – The cowboy-pattern types, different colors. These are awesome for cleaning off your optics, blowing your nose, wiping off your weapon, wiping off your BluForce Tracker screen, drying your hands, whatever. I don’t leave the wire without one.

Bungee Cords – The little 10” commercial ones, the big rubber ones, the OD green ones that you buy at Clothing Sales, you can’t go wrong with bungee cords. Good for staging magazines, strobes, IV sets, tourniquets, water bottles, whatever.

Favorite Video Games – Even if you don’t have a game console (Xbox or Playstation) or just have one for your team, squad, platoon, whatever (hey, there’s an idea) take the games that you like. Chances are there’s a game console near you in an adjoining platoon or MWR palace/ tent.

Segovia Account – I’m not plugging VOIP (voice-over-internet-protocol) services, it’s just that these guys are pretty much the best game in town at VOIP. Get an account in the states and use it in-country, don’t let anyone know your account information… even your best buddy will abuse it.

Drink Tablets/ Powders - The tablets are relatively new. Nuun, Zyme and Elixer are awesome, carbonated tablets (kinda like Alka-Seltezer) that you just drop into a bottle and wait a couple of minutes. It's bubbly for a few hours and basically flavored water with some good shit thrown in so you can justify using it. Water gets a little old after a while.

Photo-Catalog - If you’re particular about your gear, make a list or a photo-catalog of what you prefer to use. This way, when you have a request from your state-side support system (relatives, spouse, whatever) they’ll know what to look for and send. It sucks when you get the wrong sized shooting gloves and the used ones you have smell like rotting chicken and are worn with holes.

I'll add to this as I think of it.