 chapperjoe
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Posted: 8/15/2011 4:31:20 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
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FAIL-SAFE
Third Boxcar, Midnight Train
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Posted: 8/16/2011 7:19:52 PM
[Last Edit: 8/16/2011 7:28:09 PM by FAIL-SAFE]
Originally Posted By chapperjoe: .. in which the author tested a firearm with LeMas and Extreme Shock ammunition? Yes. Bob Pilgrim. |
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Rich_Lucibella
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Posted: 8/21/2011 3:59:01 PM
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FAIL-SAFE
Third Boxcar, Midnight Train
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Posted: 8/22/2011 5:56:32 PM
The problem is that LeMas and Blended Metal Technology was exposed as fraudulent ammo.
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chapperjoe
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Posted: 8/22/2011 6:28:14 PM
nytrilium
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Posted: 8/22/2011 8:23:46 PM
[Last Edit: 8/22/2011 8:24:28 PM by Badfish25]
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE: The problem is that LeMas and Blended Metal Technology was exposed as fraudulent ammo.  Sounds like someone has been listening to a "dentist". For the record I am no Ballistic expert, I have just read some posts of very respectable people who thing highly of LeMas ammo. |
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chapperjoe
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Posted: 8/22/2011 9:38:27 PM
you need to reexamine who you respect:
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19888 summary at end: Congress appropriated $1,050,000.00 in the FY03 budget for the government to conduct a comprehensive study of LeMas “BMT” ammunition and evaluate the remarkable claims made by LeMas. A 3 year, multi-agency testing effort was conducted and the results compiled and documented. The long awaited USSOCOM/ARDEC report on LeMas ammo was made available for distribution to authorized organizations in August of 2007. Virtually every single claim made by Mr. Bulmer and Mr. Hamilton regarding LeMas bullet design, manufacture, construction methodology and composition, pyrophoric and thermodynamic properties, behavior in tissue simulant, intermediate barrier capability, terminal performance in tissue were all determined to be FALSE. Hopefully this will put to rest any residual doubts about the fraudulent nature of LeMas "BMT". Note that the USSOCOM/ARDEC report validates ALL the information we have released publicly to date above.
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Posted: 8/23/2011 7:04:50 AM
Originally Posted By chapperjoe: you need to reexamine who you respect: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19888 summary at end: Congress appropriated $1,050,000.00 in the FY03 budget for the government to conduct a comprehensive study of LeMas "BMT” ammunition and evaluate the remarkable claims made by LeMas. A 3 year, multi-agency testing effort was conducted and the results compiled and documented. The long awaited USSOCOM/ARDEC report on LeMas ammo was made available for distribution to authorized organizations in August of 2007. Virtually every single claim made by Mr. Bulmer and Mr. Hamilton regarding LeMas bullet design, manufacture, construction methodology and composition, pyrophoric and thermodynamic properties, behavior in tissue simulant, intermediate barrier capability, terminal performance in tissue were all determined to be FALSE. Hopefully this will put to rest any residual doubts about the fraudulent nature of LeMas "BMT". Note that the USSOCOM/ARDEC report validates ALL the information we have released publicly to date above. Yea, I have heard that side of the story, I have also heard another side: http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11179&highlight=LeMas |
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chapperjoe
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Posted: 8/23/2011 9:34:00 AM
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 9:34:15 AM by chapperjoe]
Again, just the important part:
Originally Posted By chapperjoe:
.......Note that the USSOCOM/ARDEC report validates ALL the information we have released publicly to date above. everyone but the company and its paid reps knows this ammo is a joke. don't be the last one to not get the joke. |
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Denny_Hansen
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Posted: 8/23/2011 4:56:53 PM
While I tend to side with Chapper on the subject of LeMas and Extreme Shock ammunition, I know others feel differently. I left the it in the article for that reason.
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FAIL-SAFE
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Posted: 8/23/2011 5:18:04 PM
Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:
The problem is that LeMas and Blended Metal Technology was exposed as fraudulent ammo.
Sounds like someone has been listening to a "dentist". For the record I am no Ballistic expert, I have just read some posts of very respectable people who thing highly of LeMas ammo. I do listen to the "dentist". Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery. After completing his residency at Navy Hospital Oakland in 1989 while on active military duty, he studied at the Army Wound Ballistic Research Laboratory at the Letterman Army Institute of Research and became one of the first members of the International Wound Ballistic Association. Since then, he has been tasked with performing military, law enforcement, and privately funded independent wound ballistic testing and analysis. He remains a Navy Reserve officer and has recently served on the Joint Service Wound Ballistic IPT, as well as being a consultant to the Joint FBI-USMC munitions testing program and the TSWG MURG program. He is frequently asked to provide wound ballistic technical assistance to numerous U.S. and allied SOF units and organizations. In addition, he is a technical advisor to the Association of Firearms and Toolmark Examiners, as well as to a variety of Federal, State, and municipal law enforcement agencies. He has been a sworn Reserve Police Officer in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he now he serves in an LE training role. Seems Dr Roberts is a bit more than just a "dentist". You are? |
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chapperjoe
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Posted: 8/23/2011 5:50:01 PM
There is independent confirmation of his findings by no less than the exact government customers LeMas was targeting.
I don't think any spanking could hurt any more than that report did. Dr Robert's himself and what he's written don't matter if the findings have been confirmed by a third party with full access to all testing materials, and all the testing methods available to anyone anywhere. There simply is no room for discussion after that. |
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Posted: 8/23/2011 9:03:19 PM
[Last Edit: 8/23/2011 9:04:26 PM by Badfish25]
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE: Originally Posted By Badfish25: Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE: The problem is that LeMas and Blended Metal Technology was exposed as fraudulent ammo. Sounds like someone has been listening to a "dentist". For the record I am no Ballistic expert, I have just read some posts of very respectable people who thing highly of LeMas ammo. I do listen to the "dentist". Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery. After completing his residency at Navy Hospital Oakland in 1989 while on active military duty, he studied at the Army Wound Ballistic Research Laboratory at the Letterman Army Institute of Research and became one of the first members of the International Wound Ballistic Association. Since then, he has been tasked with performing military, law enforcement, and privately funded independent wound ballistic testing and analysis. He remains a Navy Reserve officer and has recently served on the Joint Service Wound Ballistic IPT, as well as being a consultant to the Joint FBI-USMC munitions testing program and the TSWG MURG program. He is frequently asked to provide wound ballistic technical assistance to numerous U.S. and allied SOF units and organizations. In addition, he is a technical advisor to the Association of Firearms and Toolmark Examiners, as well as to a variety of Federal, State, and municipal law enforcement agencies. He has been a sworn Reserve Police Officer in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he now he serves in an LE training role. Seems Dr Roberts is a bit more than just a "dentist". You are? Like I said I am no ballistic expert I believe more in shot placement instead of the latest wonder bullet. I was just poking fun at DR. Roberts ("the dentist"), although I do believe that ballistic gel is overrated and we should be using real tissue to better represent ballistic damage. If you check out the pics in the link I posted, those rounds did some horrific damage. |
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FAIL-SAFE
Third Boxcar, Midnight Train
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Posted: 8/24/2011 12:16:14 AM
Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:
Originally Posted By Badfish25:
Originally Posted By FAIL-SAFE:
The problem is that LeMas and Blended Metal Technology was exposed as fraudulent ammo.
Sounds like someone has been listening to a "dentist". For the record I am no Ballistic expert, I have just read some posts of very respectable people who thing highly of LeMas ammo. I do listen to the "dentist". Dr. Roberts is currently on staff at Stanford University Medical Center; this is a large teaching hospital and Level I Trauma center were he performs hospital dentistry and surgery. After completing his residency at Navy Hospital Oakland in 1989 while on active military duty, he studied at the Army Wound Ballistic Research Laboratory at the Letterman Army Institute of Research and became one of the first members of the International Wound Ballistic Association. Since then, he has been tasked with performing military, law enforcement, and privately funded independent wound ballistic testing and analysis. He remains a Navy Reserve officer and has recently served on the Joint Service Wound Ballistic IPT, as well as being a consultant to the Joint FBI-USMC munitions testing program and the TSWG MURG program. He is frequently asked to provide wound ballistic technical assistance to numerous U.S. and allied SOF units and organizations. In addition, he is a technical advisor to the Association of Firearms and Toolmark Examiners, as well as to a variety of Federal, State, and municipal law enforcement agencies. He has been a sworn Reserve Police Officer in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he now he serves in an LE training role. Seems Dr Roberts is a bit more than just a "dentist". You are? Like I said I am no ballistic expert I believe more in shot placement instead of the latest wonder bullet. I was just poking fun at DR. Roberts ("the dentist"), although I do believe that ballistic gel is overrated and we should be using real tissue to better represent ballistic damage. If you check out the pics in the link I posted, those rounds did some horrific damage. I've seen the pictures. Have you seen the responses by the folks in wounds ballistics other than Dr Roberts? I have. Using a knife to open a wound is nott a scientific way of examining it. You do know they, LeMas under the screen name BMT, got caught exagerating the wound here? By me an several other when we noted some "extra" projectiles in the wound. Ballistic gelatin, actually calibrated ballistic gelatin, has been proven time and again to be more than acceptable at comparison to soft human flesh. See Gene Wolfberg and his San Diego PD research. Shot placement is fine, but without ammunition that gets an acceptable amount of penetration and expansion there are still going to be problems. Hence terminal ballistics, aka what projectiles do in bodies. |
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