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Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:42:07 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
For small environments like yours we will typically put a RDS/Terminal server in our datacenter.   It offers build in disaster recovery, business continuity, and offsite backups, etc.

We leverage TSPRINT and TSSCAN to allow local scanners and to bring some sanity to printing.

The core infrastructure is managed and monitored, the servers are replicated every 5 minutes to standby hardware both onsite and offsite (out of state for DR)  etc.     A lot of good things happen that small offices just don't have the budget for.   Small offices having local servers is going the way of the dinosaur.   It just is too expensive to do it right.

As long as the internet circuit at the client site is low latency and decent - we have no problems whatsoever.

Photoshop or Autocad type apps present some challenges that we have to address with something a little more advanced like Citrix.
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We're doing some pretty awesome stuff with nvidia K1,K2,M40,M60 just with RDP  we no longer need Citrix and HDX3D Pro.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 5:11:25 PM EDT
[#2]
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I'm curious why you are so opposed to the point of view that managed services are a fit for this case?  You start off your participation in this thread by stating that you are a network engineer/admin and that "experts" over-engineer the shit out of anything.

As a network engineer/admin what exactly is it about a simple ADDS upgrade/install and some other sound and standard recommendations that you find "over-engineered"?  

As a fellow network engineer (well, not most of the time these days but I'll give myself the benefit of a doubt) I am struggling to understand how you could find the recommended solutions to be anything more than trivial at best....

It is a straightforward, easily supported, and responsible way to scope out a design for even a 5 user small business system.  It can scale or remain of very limited size with feature-sets that offer the business a great deal of flexibility regardless of size.  It also represents a best-practices and security posture that will meet and generally exceed virtually any standard applied to small business with regards to their information and data protection and availability responsibilities.

There is no logical and responsible argument that justifies the low-cost and/or minimum-effort approach when the subject is a business with all the risks, rewards, liabilities, legal obligations, and responsibilities that are inherent in their operation.

It is a smart business owner that wants to invest in the most capable solutions and a professional services provider to maintain them.  The investment can be depreciated and the services put to expenses and best of all, the business owners can worry less about computers and data and focus that effort on the successful delivery of products and services.

Amateurs argue about saving some money by deploying simple and low cost consumer/personal solutions for business.  Professionals argue about investing appropriately in secure, reliable platforms and the profesional services that get IT out of the businesses way so they can focus on their core operations.
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Believe it or not I agree with everything you said. The problem is I live in reality and most of the time these businesses can't or won't afford to spend what we have to offer. I'm justifying what they are willing to spend, not what we think they need. Then (whoever) can focus on what type of security to put on it. No where did I think the OP infer he needed "managed services" but maybe I'm worng? The main point was an active directory server. And in no way did I argue against good security.  If you are as good as I think you are then you are aware that owners willing to put in the right infrastructure are few and far between. Depreciation means spending a large sum up front for years of tax breaks. How many 5 person business's do you think are willing to do that? I will give them the best options for the amount they are willing to spend. Some are willing to walk away if not done right. My apologies if it seems I'm anti AD as that is not my intention when stating over-engineering.
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 5:25:57 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Believe it or not I agree with everything you said. The problem is I live in reality and most of the time these businesses can't or won't afford to spend what we have to offer. I'm justifying what they are willing to spend, not what we think they need. Then (whoever) can focus on what type of security to put on it. No where did I think the OP infer he needed "managed services" but maybe I'm worng? The main point was an active directory server. And in no way did I argue against good security.  If you are as good as I think you are then you are aware that owners willing to put in the right infrastructure are few and far between. Depreciation means spending a large sum up front for years of tax breaks. How many 5 person business's do you think are willing to do that? I will give them the best options for the amount they are willing to spend. Some are willing to walk away if not done right. My apologies if it seems I'm anti AD as that is not my intention when stating over-engineering.
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That was pretty true 5 years ago.  But now we live in a reality that has CryptoLocker, WannaCry, NotPetya, and news story after news story of big companies with millions of dollars in CyberSec budgets being taken down by Crypto SaaS customer script kiddies.  Business are scared shitless, even small ones, and are starting to spend 4-9% of their G&A on IT with an eye towards security.  $800-1200/month for full spectrum IT support, management and security?  That's nothing to a company that has a $90,000 payroll, and it helps that I actually bring a lot of value to the table.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 9:26:13 PM EDT
[#4]
If it were me I'd just recommend you run a local DC on a nano server. Maybe even a light hybrid setup with a cheap backup DC in the cloud (Azure).

Shit, you could even run WSUS on a nano server, as well as a few Group Policies and let it take care of all the maintenance and security in the domain.

All of this for FAR less than the 4k plus quoted to you... Sounds like a shit IT outfit making you recommendations to make them money.
Link Posted: 7/15/2017 9:27:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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Let's put it this way, for the OPs business I could provide remote monitoring everything, patch management, a full security stack (including full UTM, and next-gen EPP), a fully cloud managed network, managed print services, workstation and server backup and DR with an RTO of 8 hours, and RPO of 24 hours with a 24/7 NOC and business hours Help Desk for around $770/month and for about $1200/month we'll include the server hardware as part of the agreement with replacement every 5 years.
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Sure, but you won't tell him that your "24/7 NOC" is actually in India, will you?
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 12:26:59 AM EDT
[#6]
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Sure, but you won't tell him that your "24/7 NOC" is actually in India, will you?
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they're actually dudes in a call center out of New York.
Link Posted: 7/16/2017 2:25:00 AM EDT
[#7]
That depends on whether or not his company is a purely IT focused Fortune 200 enterprise vendor with a managed services and tiered support model.  Those are the only businesses that are big enough to absorb the losses from being stupid enough to try using that kind of support option in a competitive services market where offshore Indian support centers are a bad joke that even the least tech-savvy people get.

 

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Sure, but you won't tell him that your "24/7 NOC" is actually in India, will you?
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Link Posted: 7/21/2017 10:02:47 AM EDT
[#8]
What is the smallest server we could go with running server essentials if the server was a domain controller only?
Link Posted: 7/21/2017 11:01:31 AM EDT
[#9]
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What is the smallest server we could go with running server essentials if the server was a domain controller only?
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A domain controller can run on a potato.
Link Posted: 7/21/2017 12:12:04 PM EDT
[#10]
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A domain controller can run on a potato.
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Here's another option to consider, tell me if this makes sense.

Instead of ditching the domain controller we buy a basic windows server for a dedicated domain controller and use 2 NAS units for file storage (1 onsite and the other offsite for backup).

This is would only make sense if I could setup the server myself, otherwise we're back to $6-7k which I really don't want to do.

Is a Dell T430 a decent option? Dell has a T430 with Xeon E5-2603, 4gb ram and 1tb hdd for $1299. I could install server 2016 essentials for a small amount of money and only use the server to administer our 5 work stations.
Link Posted: 7/21/2017 1:38:52 PM EDT
[#11]
You could buy a craptastic desktop box and install server essentials on it.
Link Posted: 7/21/2017 1:42:20 PM EDT
[#12]
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You could buy a craptastic desktop box and install server essentials on it.
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Do you have a recommendation on something that would last 5 years?
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 2:37:18 PM EDT
[#13]
I was going to suggest that something this small, without any professional services, might be a good use-case for Azure.  I can't imagine it would be very expensive for something basic like AAD and no hardware to deal with.

I suspect it would surpass the cost of an inexpensive server before the server would have depreciated out.  Eh, I'm not much of a cloud fan.  I've made some real friends in the industry by telling them that the cloud exodus is coming so don't send to much of your shit to the Hotel California.

Now to figure out how I can delete $67,000/month worth of backup files.  No one can identify why they were there, who did it (done under the account that opened the tenancy, person responsible long since gone), or any other useful information.

That's the power of the "cloud"

Back on topic.  You could just pick up a small HPE Proliant tower with a basic RAID 1 array, 8/16GB of RAM, an E5 CPU, etc.  Very vanilla but will probably run forever if it's just a DC and no one dicks with it or uses it a personal porn station.
Link Posted: 7/23/2017 3:04:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Any PC will work using Windows 10 for your server. I think it has a max of ten connections, so no problem. I would setup the disks as RAID1 and still do some type of backup, but I definitely wouldn't buy a server and setup a domain controller for five PC's.
Link Posted: 7/29/2017 1:48:37 AM EDT
[#15]
I appreciate everyone's opinions. Thanks again for the input.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 11:19:22 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


Do you have a recommendation on something that would last 5 years?
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At 3-5 years you should be replacing servers even if they are still working. Replace stuff on your terms, not when it fails and burns you.
Link Posted: 8/14/2017 11:24:00 AM EDT
[#17]
That 4k Dell is overkill. That will support hundreds or thousands of users. But, if you buy anything else the IT company will just blame it for every problem you ever have. Buy what they are recommending or go off on your own.

Personally, I would move QB to the web and eliminate the server completely. Get a security appliance if you need one.

Centralized servers are cute and IT nerds love them, but for a few users it's silly. Also, you are stuck with a centralized point of failure for your entire business. When it crashes everybody is down for the day. And, the IT company has you by the balls because only they know how to maintain it. That's their business model.
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