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Posted: 6/5/2017 2:59:48 PM EDT
I'm gearing up for competing in my first triathlon sprint in September.  I have two goals:  1. Finish 2. Beat my brother

I'm in fairly decent shape but could definitely work on my cardio.  I've been going to the gym 3-5 days a week since Jan and mainly focus on weights but try to get in some cardio on non-weight days.  I plan to start biking a lot and running (I really don't like running!) to get trained for the event.  This particular sprint is 600 yard swim (in a lake), 15 mile bike, and 5k run.  

The part I'm struggling with is training for the swim.  I've always been a good swimmer but I don't swim regularly and haven't since I was in high school (I'll be 31 this month).  My current gym doesn't have a pool.  My dilemma is:  I can join another gym in the town that I work in for $49/month that does have an indoor Olympic pool.  No contract, so I can cancel anytime.  I don't like spending the money, but ultimately I have the money to spend.  

Would I be an idiot to think I can go swim 600 yards without training at all?  Do you guys that have experience with these races think it's a fools errand to only practice swimming a handful of times over the next couple months vs getting in a pool 2x per week?  

Now on a general training regimen, what part do you guys see as the place that  amateurs could improve the most to better their time?  I don't really know what to expect with my first one, but looking forward to doing more.  

@Yellowfin.   Old Yellerfin is my brother (twin to be exact) and I'm sure he would like to hear your advice too.  I'll allow him to make a who's the better twin post when he gets beat in September.  
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 3:19:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Yes you'd be an idiot to think you can wake up one morning and do a 600 yard open swim in race conditions with other people with zero recent training.

Swimming is a technique sport and the techniques are a perishable skill.

You need some pool time and some lake time long before September. Then you'll know how you stand and what training you need.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 3:28:36 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Yes you'd be an idiot to think you can wake up one morning and do a 600 yard open swim in race conditions with other people with zero recent training.

Swimming is a technique sport and the techniques are a perishable skill.

You need some pool time and some lake time long before September. Then you'll know how you stand and what training you need.
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Well jerkydog got the part in bold right!  And I'm IN to see other responses.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 3:33:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:
Yes you'd be an idiot to think you can wake up one morning and do a 600 yard open swim in race conditions with other people with zero recent training.

Swimming is a technique sport and the techniques are a perishable skill.

You need some pool time and some lake time long before September. Then you'll know how you stand and what training you need.
View Quote
See that's what I needed to hear. Lake time will be attainable since my parents live on a lake. Just have to go visit them 3 hours away.  

I'll be joining the gym with a pool next week.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 4:15:05 PM EDT
[#4]
I did 2 swims a week, generally, when I was preparing.


How's your bike?  The biggest change I could have made to cut time was having a faster bike.  I rode my general purpose touring bike, and got killed.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 4:27:28 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
I did 2 swims a week, generally, when I was preparing.


How's your bike?  The biggest change I could have made to cut time was having a faster bike.  I rode my general purpose touring bike, and got killed.
View Quote
I actually just bought a new bike that will be better than my abilities.  I plan to start training with it this week. I've never done any racing, so I have no clue how fast/slow I should expect to be.  What's your goal as far as miles per minute in these types of events?
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 5:17:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:

Would I be an idiot to think I can go swim 600 yards without training at all?  Do you guys that have experience with these races think it's a fools errand to only practice swimming a handful of times over the next couple months vs getting in a pool 2x per week?  

Now on a general training regimen, what part do you guys see as the place that  amateurs could improve the most to better their time?  I don't really know what to expect with my first one, but looking forward to doing more.  

@Yellowfin.   Old Yellerfin is my brother (twin to be exact) and I'm sure he would like to hear your advice too.  I'll allow him to make a who's the better twin post when he gets beat in September.  
View Quote

When you say that you have not swam since high school, were you on the swim team in high school?  If yes, then you can probably get away with a handful (single digit) number of swims and finish top half of top quarter in a triathlon.  Most people, especially in a sprint race, are just trying to survive.  If you were not on the swim team, you may be an idiot to try to race without a single swim.  OTOH, you might get pulled out of the water and be able to start drinking beer ahead of your brother.

As far as where you could most improve your time, that is hard to answer without knowing what your current performance is in each discipline.  Swimming is hardest to improve because it's technique heavy and you don't have time to learn much - unless you are an exceptionally horrible swimmer.  In that case, some lessons may be your biggest bang for the buck.  Based on what you wrote -that you hate running - I'm going to assume that you rarely run.  That would make running the easiest place for you to improve.

Are you riding a tri bike with aerobars?  Being able to ride the entire distance in the aero position is also a big time gain and is "free" in that you are just reducing the amount of work necessary to go a given speed.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 5:26:27 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


I actually just bought a new bike that will be better than my abilities.  I plan to start training with it this week. I've never done any racing, so I have no clue how fast/slow I should expect to be.  What's your goal as far as miles per minute in these types of events?
View Quote
I was a former cyclist and raced on a tri-specific bike.  I generally went relatively easier on the bike because at bike speeds, resistance increases with the square of your speed, whereas in running, the relationship is generally linear i.e. twice as fast on the bike is 4x as hard, but twice as fast running is only 2x as hard.  A general rule of thumb for "good" bike pacing is that you should bike hard only hard enough to take ~30 seconds per mile off your run pace compared to a stand alone race of the same distance.  So, if you're normally an 8:00 5K guy, ride as hard as you can and still sustain a post-bike 8:30 run.

My last race was a half ironman distance and I averaged 22.5 mph, which was slightly conservative to enable a faster run.  In a sprint race, I was aiming for more like 23.5-24.  The lower average is partially because it takes a few miles to get warmed up and into the groove and courses are often more crowded than longer races., so sprint races tend to be tough on average speed.  Also, I am a shit swimmer, so I was usually a bit gassed coming out of the water.
Link Posted: 6/5/2017 5:40:53 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:

When you say that you have not swam since high school, were you on the swim team in high school?  If yes, then you can probably get away with a handful (single digit) number of swims and finish top half of top quarter in a triathlon.  Most people, especially in a sprint race, are just trying to survive.  If you were not on the swim team, you may be an idiot to try to race without a single swim.  OTOH, you might get pulled out of the water and be able to start drinking beer ahead of your brother.

As far as where you could most improve your time, that is hard to answer without knowing what your current performance is in each discipline.  Swimming is hardest to improve because it's technique heavy and you don't have time to learn much - unless you are an exceptionally horrible swimmer.  In that case, some lessons may be your biggest bang for the buck.  Based on what you wrote -that you hate running - I'm going to assume that you rarely run.  That would make running the easiest place for you to improve.

Are you riding a tri bike with aerobars?  Being able to ride the entire distance in the aero position is also a big time gain and is "free" in that you are just reducing the amount of work necessary to go a given speed.
View Quote
I wasn't on a swim team since our school didn't have one, so my experience is at the pool on our farm. That's the last time I swam regularly and tried to get better at swimming.  So I've decided I'll be hitting the pool at the new gym.

I say I hate running because I burned out in cross country in high school and just haven't liked it since. I haven't done any real distance running since then but still stay active with tennis and doing some sprints.  I definitely need to work on running. I'd like to get down to at least an 7-8 min mile for a 5k.  

I'm not worried about the distance on the bike as much as I'm worried about burning out my legs on the run.  I know I can bike for 15 miles but I've never swam before it and run after it. I'll be working on biking skills and transitioning to a run after biking in my neighborhood.

I know the question is hard to answer without knowing me. I meant just in a general sense what do amateurs seem to struggle with or maybe what was eye opening to you seasoned triathletes in your first one.  

I do appreciate the comments so keep them coming.
Link Posted: 6/6/2017 10:19:19 AM EDT
[#9]
Assuming they're allowed, a clip on aerobar is good for 1-2 mph.

http://www.nashbar.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10053_10052_584331_-1___204988
Link Posted: 6/6/2017 9:50:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I wasn't on a swim team since our school didn't have one, so my experience is at the pool on our farm. That's the last time I swam regularly and tried to get better at swimming.  So I've decided I'll be hitting the pool at the new gym.

I say I hate running because I burned out in cross country in high school and just haven't liked it since. I haven't done any real distance running since then but still stay active with tennis and doing some sprints.  I definitely need to work on running. I'd like to get down to at least an 7-8 min mile for a 5k.  

I'm not worried about the distance on the bike as much as I'm worried about burning out my legs on the run.  I know I can bike for 15 miles but I've never swam before it and run after it. I'll be working on biking skills and transitioning to a run after biking in my neighborhood.

I know the question is hard to answer without knowing me. I meant just in a general sense what do amateurs seem to struggle with or maybe what was eye opening to you seasoned triathletes in your first one.  

I do appreciate the comments so keep them coming.
View Quote
I spent 6 years leading workouts for a new triathlete training program and trained with triathletes form beginner to B/C-list pros.  The most common mistake people make is biking too hard for their ability.  The secret code for this, that even the athletes don't know is when they say, "My race was going so great until I blew up on the run".

Second biggest mistake is trying something new on race day.  "Something" could be running shoes, goggles, a wetsuit, a drink or gel.  It doesn't matter - nothing new on race day.  Period.
Link Posted: 6/6/2017 10:40:03 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

Second biggest mistake is trying something new on race day.  "Something" could be running shoes, goggles, a wetsuit, a drink or gel.  It doesn't matter - nothing new on race day.  Period.
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I agree biking too hard is a common mistake but not the biggest. I think the biggest is not enough open water swimming. People get weirded out swimming in lakes with low visibility and that's most triathlons. They imagine all sorts of creepy crawlies. Its a reptilian brain self preservation thing. Swim panic is real and it's dangerous.

As for nothing new on race day, well within reason not "period".  After all there will always be something "new" on race day: it's your first and only time doing that race on that day with those conditions and with that training beforehand.  One must be flexible to handle what the day throws at you. I've lost all my nutrition bottles, I've fallen down, I've had flats and other mechanicals. I've had unexpected heat and unexpected rain and unexpected cold. I've had my special.needs bag get lost. I've broken sunglasses.

I wouldn't wear new bike shorts, but I've worn a new jersey. I wouldn't use on course nutrition I've never trained with it, but I'll try new flavors. That sort of thing.

ETA: my qualifications: 15 seasons of triathlons. 11 Ironmans, 15 half IMs. 14 full marathons. Dozens of half marathons.  I know something about race day.
Link Posted: 6/9/2017 1:49:41 AM EDT
[#12]
Thread is relevant to my interest... I have a sprint Triathlon Saturday.
 my advice to OP: Get in the pool.
 Try to get  at least 3 hours  a week swimming.
Link Posted: 6/9/2017 9:47:14 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:

I think the biggest is not enough open water swimming. People get weirded out swimming in lakes with low visibility and that's most triathlons. They imagine all sorts of creepy crawlies. Its a reptilian brain self preservation thing. Swim panic is real and it's dangerous.
View Quote
I've always lived in places with plenty of open water venues for swimming - San Diego, Pensacola, Norfolk/Virginia Beach.  The only folks I've really seen have trouble in open water swimming, with one conditional exception, were folks who were poor swimmers anyway.  In other words, it's not really the open water, but a lack of swim fitness/comfort, but that may not be the case everywhere.  It does make sense to do some open water swimming to figure out how to sight buoys and breathe in the chop.  As a slow, swimmer who was still comfortable in the water, I usually found open water racing to be easier than training because I could just follow the group and didn't need to worry about navigating.

The one exception to that was oceans swims with big surf.  If someone hadn't trained how to get out through the breakers, they would get thrashed.  Saw this several times racing the Camp Pendleton tri and Mike and Rob's Half in the early/mid 90s.
Link Posted: 6/9/2017 11:06:34 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
Thread is relevant to my interest... I have a sprint Triathlon Saturday.
 my advice to OP: Get in the pool.
 Try to get  at least 3 hours  a week swimming.
View Quote
Good luck!  Is this your first or one of many?
Link Posted: 6/9/2017 1:53:16 PM EDT
[#15]
 Tomorrow will be my  3rd  tri. Real newb at this, first one last year did it breast stroke... sort of.

 Just  getting comfortable in the pool, as of last week. Swim lessons  are helping.
 I hope to put together a   genuine crawl stroke tomorrow,  when I run out of wind, I can default to a  backstroke to catch my breath.
.
 Beverage for T1  will be a double espresso, of course.... 
 What  beer  do you recommend for T2 ?  I am probably going  for a lager.
 Question for the pros :
do you think it smart to decant  your T2 beer  into an open  mug  during first transition , so it can be  a little flat,  easier to  drink fast without a  lot of head, right ?   maybe I am overthinking this.
 
Link Posted: 6/11/2017 8:54:01 AM EDT
[#16]
For a triathlon and your first ? I'm not going to even slam you for thinking about not training for the swim. But you need to talk to a Tri coach to put together a plan to work up to the event. Working out and a little cardio wouldn't even prepare you for a 50 mile bike race let alone a triathlon. Go see a coach for a training program to get you ready. It seems we have around 33 coaches in the state of GA

Tri Coaches in GA
Link Posted: 6/12/2017 2:40:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Joined the gym with a pool today. Went for a swim. I can confirm it would have been really dumb to not practice swimming and work on swimming endurance!
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