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Posted: 4/19/2017 8:20:43 PM EDT
My teenaged son has been competing in powerlifting events for the last few years. 100% RAW has been a great experience, well ran organization , and very encouraging/ supportive.
Now he is getting ready for some geared events. Has a single ply suit and a bench shirt. Has added a good bit of weight to his lifts. I contend that it is not really him lifting it if he is wearing this stuff. He counters saying it lets you know what heavier weights feel like and geared lifting helps your raw lifting. I think its a case of him chasing numbers. Thoughts? Also, after stupid heavy squats his face, neck and upper chest sometimes look like he's been shot with sand. Hundreds if not thousands of little red dots, what I assume are busted cappilaries. Goes away in a few days, but????? One one hand, I really admire his drive and determination, but on the other, as a Dad, worry. I know he will get hurt, just a question of when and how bad. Thanks. |
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I haven't lifted in gear, but from what I understand is that geared strength doesn't fully translate into raw strength due to the changed dynamics in the lifts. Learning how to use gear will add poundage to your total, but at the end of the day it is still you moving a bunch of weight.
I burst cappillaries all the time doing heavy lifts. Have him try to grunt or slightly exhale on the way up this seems to help me. |
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If the busted capillaries worry you, wait until his first nosebleed during really heavy pull.
And bruised eyelids... |
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If the busted capillaries worry you, wait until his first nosebleed during really heavy pull. And bruised eyelids... View Quote Has had nosebleeds, black and blue. Hell, his hips were purple/ black last week. Pretty sure he' s popped a turd a time or two too, LOL. We saw a guy attempting a 700 squat about get killed last year. I think the spotters fell asleep and guy pitched forward |
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I always thought of it as the high jump versus the pole vault, just two different ways of doing a similar task.
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I always thought of it as the high jump versus the pole vault, just two different ways of doing a similar task.
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The only thing I can comment is that multiply is gay as shit. Other than that, I dunno
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Geared numbers shouldn't count. I'm going to invent a "squat suit" with a giant spring sticking out of the ass that bounces me out of the hole. Still have to learn to use it, right?
But then again, I think even belts are cheating. |
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Geared numbers shouldn't count. I'm going to invent a "squat suit" with a giant spring sticking out of the ass that bounces me out of the hole. Still have to learn to use it, right? But then again, I think even belts are cheating. View Quote Said he plans on hitting 2 meets with singleply this year, then back to raw. Wants 1700# before he turns 18. |
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Has had nosebleeds, black and blue. Hell, his hips were purple/ black last week. Pretty sure he' s popped a turd a time or two too, LOL. We saw a guy attempting a 700 squat about get killed last year. I think the spotters fell asleep and guy pitched forward View Quote |
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Has had nosebleeds, black and blue. Hell, his hips were purple/ black last week. Pretty sure he' s popped a turd a time or two too, LOL. We saw a guy attempting a 700 squat about get killed last year. I think the spotters fell asleep and guy pitched forward |
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I have respect for guys that will work so hard they poop a little.
If I pooped a little while lifting I think I would have to re-evaluate my life/diet choices, also my wife would pick on me a lot. |
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I draw the line before shitting my pants LOL.
Power lifting retarded weights and growing / undeveloped bodies is a recipe for problems down the road. Reps are your friend, not single uncontrolled lifts. |
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Power lifting retarded weights and growing / undeveloped bodies is a recipe for problems down the road. . View Quote Even after I explained just how heavy HEAVY is. |
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To be less flippant about it, I get that geared lifting is actually more physically taxing than raw, but at the end of the day, geared lifters still put up more weight. You get more tension in the body, and you get an elastic effect at the bottom of the lift, where everyone is weakest. My philosophy is that lifting competitions are all about testing what the body can do. If your philosophy is that it's a sport with equipment that advances like any other (e.g. hockey goalies with giant pads), then that's cool. But there should always be an asterisk or distinction next to geared vs raw numbers. An 800lb raw squat is more impressive to me than a grand in multi, but usually just the numbers are given.
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To be less flippant about it, I get that geared lifting is actually more physically taxing than raw, but at the end of the day, geared lifters still put up more weight. You get more tension in the body, and you get an elastic effect at the bottom of the lift, where everyone is weakest. My philosophy is that lifting competitions are all about testing what the body can do. If your philosophy is that it's a sport with equipment that advances like any other (e.g. hockey goalies with giant pads), then that's cool. But there should always be an asterisk or distinction next to geared vs raw numbers. An 800lb raw squat is more impressive to me than a grand in multi, but usually just the numbers are given. View Quote But the belt isn't in the same category. It doesn't perform any action towards lifting the weight like the suit or wraps do, it just provides something for the body to brace on. Body still has to do 100% of the work. To me it's like wearing running shoes or lifting shoes. One is spongy and doesn't give a solid base to push off of, the other is rock solid. Neither will actually contribute to lifting the weight but they do contribute to the body's ability to push. |
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An 800lb raw squat is more impressive to me than a grand in multi, but usually just the numbers are given. View Quote Agree. And I also always ask, when he tells me so and so pulled or benched X lbs in a competition, " Tested?" I know the single ply has added 100# to his squat already, but his raw numbers are climbing too. |
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To be less flippant about it, I get that geared lifting is actually more physically taxing than raw, but at the end of the day, geared lifters still put up more weight. You get more tension in the body, and you get an elastic effect at the bottom of the lift, where everyone is weakest. My philosophy is that lifting competitions are all about testing what the body can do. If your philosophy is that it's a sport with equipment that advances like any other (e.g. hockey goalies with giant pads), then that's cool. But there should always be an asterisk or distinction next to geared vs raw numbers. An 800lb raw squat is more impressive to me than a grand in multi, but usually just the numbers are given. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Geared numbers shouldn't count. I'm going to invent a "squat suit" with a giant spring sticking out of the ass that bounces me out of the hole. Still have to learn to use it, right? But then again, I think even belts are cheating. |
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BTKhHsIBoey/
Saw this over at the starting strength forum. Demonstrating that neither bench shirts nor strength is needed for a big bench. |
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BTKhHsIBoey/ Saw this over at the starting strength forum. Demonstrating that neither bench shirts nor strength is needed for a big bench. View Quote |
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BTKhHsIBoey/ Saw this over at the starting strength forum. Demonstrating that neither bench shirts nor strength is needed for a big bench. View Quote |
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I could be wrong but I don't think that wide of grip is legal. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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https://www.instagram.com/p/BTKhHsIBoey/ Saw this over at the starting strength forum. Demonstrating that neither bench shirts nor strength is needed for a big bench. |
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I'm thinking he's barely on the rings but just a little guy. I've seen tons of women arch like that but never a guy. View Quote "Jap grip" lol Bench Press: Japanese Grip |
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It's a technique pioneered by the Asians. It's like the sumo deadlift of bench pressing, AKA basically cheating "Jap grip" lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgEJitxuvc View Quote I'm off to cut moob relief holes in my tight shirts. |
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It's a technique pioneered by the Asians. It's like the sumo deadlift of bench pressing, AKA basically cheating "Jap grip" lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWgEJitxuvc View Quote |
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He squatted 635X2 in singleply + kneewraps then 405x12 with just a belt. Curious to see how much he can do without the suit. I' d guess 550 ish?
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Teenager? All of this is dumb. Expect knee replacement surgery and a fucked back by the time he is 30. I spent a long time chasing big numbers but at what cost. I feel like an old broke ass man many compressed discs in my back and my knees pop and hurt constantly I just turned 30 2 weeks ago. Seriously are there any "careers" in power lifting aside from the small chance he can monetize a social media following? Is he going to the Olympics?
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Teenager? All of this is dumb. Expect knee replacement surgery and a fucked back by the time he is 30. I spent a long time chasing big numbers but at what cost. I feel like an old broke ass man many compressed discs in my back and my knees pop and hurt constantly I just turned 30 2 weeks ago. Seriously are there any "careers" in power lifting aside from the small chance he can monetize a social media following? Is he going to the Olympics? View Quote |
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Teenager? All of this is dumb. Expect knee replacement surgery and a fucked back by the time he is 30. I spent a long time chasing big numbers but at what cost. I feel like an old broke ass man many compressed discs in my back and my knees pop and hurt constantly I just turned 30 2 weeks ago. Seriously are there any "careers" in power lifting aside from the small chance he can monetize a social media following? Is he going to the Olympics? View Quote Im turning 31 this year. I broke my back when I was 16. Powerlifting saved my life and got me off of painkillers and the attached addiction. I live pain free now and am better off for it. SO much for ending up with a fucked back from lifting. |
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Question for those making statements about raw vs geared, techniques being basically cheating, etc...
Do you have proof that you can do those lifts - even geared or using that technique - at a similar level? If so, what gives you the idea you have any kind of informed opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but these conversations baffle me, and are usually (not always, but usually) had by those who cant even come close to matching the level of lifting they're shit talking about. Its like the GD "can you bench 225" threads and the slew of bullshit that goes with them and the goobers that don't even really lift and challenge themselves bloviating about how you're going to wreck your shit and end up crippled (as if most powerlifters would care even if that was true). I'm honestly curious. It reminds me of dudes that spout off about "CNS Exhaustion" who skip lift days and only squat once a week because "muh CNS! overtraining!". |
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Question for those making statements about raw vs geared, techniques being basically cheating, etc... Do you have proof that you can do those lifts - even geared or using that technique - at a similar level? If so, what gives you the idea you have any kind of informed opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but these conversations baffle me, and are usually (not always, but usually) had by those who cant even come close to matching the level of lifting they're shit talking about. View Quote And then there's this Hoff press - SPF Pro-Am It is interesting how geared powerlifting was all there was for over a decade; but now raw hit a resurgence and geared lifting seems to be dying. I almost never see anything about multiply anymore I was mostly joking about sumo deadlift and the Jap (lol) press being cheating; regardless how ridiculous said press looks |
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People discovered that they could lift more weight by wearing ridiculously tight clothing and it continued from there. Now, (multiply) they can't even squat to depth in the stuff. It's just ridiculous. And then there's this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYW8VavY1I It is interesting how geared powerlifting was all there was for over a decade; but now raw hit a resurgence and geared lifting seems to be dying. I almost never see anything about multiply anymore I was mostly joking about sumo deadlift and the Jap (lol) press being cheating; regardless how ridiculous said press looks View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Question for those making statements about raw vs geared, techniques being basically cheating, etc... Do you have proof that you can do those lifts - even geared or using that technique - at a similar level? If so, what gives you the idea you have any kind of informed opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but these conversations baffle me, and are usually (not always, but usually) had by those who cant even come close to matching the level of lifting they're shit talking about. And then there's this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hYW8VavY1I It is interesting how geared powerlifting was all there was for over a decade; but now raw hit a resurgence and geared lifting seems to be dying. I almost never see anything about multiply anymore I was mostly joking about sumo deadlift and the Jap (lol) press being cheating; regardless how ridiculous said press looks in USPA we still see some multiply, but mostly single-ply, outside of big comps. The reason for it stems mostly from what a HUGE PITA it is to get into a suit or shirt, especially since the use of certain assistance tools for getting them on is frowned upon now. That said, Multi-Ply is its own thing, and I still respect the dudes who put in the work to be able to lift in all that bullshit AND the numbers they put up - I know I can't just sling on a shirt and put up 500 lb on bench. Squat depth: This REALLY depends on the organization. I have never seen a dude get white-lighted on a high squat in USPA. Then again, I've only been to a few MP comps to watch. The biggest thing about MP is the monolift - I know WHY they use it, and it is VERY hard and dangerous to walk out a squat in a suit, but I feel like that takes more away from the lift than the suit does. That's the beauty of Powerlifting. There are tons of different federations and you can follow whichever one fits your idea of what Powerlifting should be. |
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Plenty of 60+ year olds who have been powerliftiyng for 40 yrs or more still competing say youre full of shit. sorry. Im turning 31 this year. I broke my back when I was 16. Powerlifting saved my life and got me off of painkillers and the attached addiction. I live pain free now and am better off for it. SO much for ending up with a fucked back from lifting. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Teenager? All of this is dumb. Expect knee replacement surgery and a fucked back by the time he is 30. I spent a long time chasing big numbers but at what cost. I feel like an old broke ass man many compressed discs in my back and my knees pop and hurt constantly I just turned 30 2 weeks ago. Seriously are there any "careers" in power lifting aside from the small chance he can monetize a social media following? Is he going to the Olympics? Im turning 31 this year. I broke my back when I was 16. Powerlifting saved my life and got me off of painkillers and the attached addiction. I live pain free now and am better off for it. SO much for ending up with a fucked back from lifting. Been competing a LONG time, well into his 70s and still lifting. Wrote a book about it. |
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Question for those making statements about raw vs geared, techniques being basically cheating, etc... Do you have proof that you can do those lifts - even geared or using that technique - at a similar level? If so, what gives you the idea you have any kind of informed opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but these conversations baffle me, and are usually (not always, but usually) had by those who cant even come close to matching the level of lifting they're shit talking about. Its like the GD "can you bench 225" threads and the slew of bullshit that goes with them and the goobers that don't even really lift and challenge themselves bloviating about how you're going to wreck your shit and end up crippled (as if most powerlifters would care even if that was true). I'm honestly curious. It reminds me of dudes that spout off about "CNS Exhaustion" who skip lift days and only squat once a week because "muh CNS! overtraining!". View Quote I give zero shits about how much someone can do with a geared lift. What really pisses me off is when someone throws it out there like its raw, but that's because I have a frame of reference. The gear is an extension of the lifter. Of course it takes skill and strength. Valentino Rossi can ride the same motorcycle a hell of a lot faster than I can, so what? Why don't I get impressed when someone says they can squat x,xxx lbs geared? It's probably a puritan thing. But if squatting or benching in a devise with so much mechanical advantage that you can't get below parallel or to the pause position without a loaded barbell is your thing, knock yourself out. Unless they make a snatch suit. Then I'd probably be all over that. |
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Since when does being informed have anything to do with forming an opinion? I did the minimum amount of research and formed an immediate and permanent opinion, like we do with most things. I give zero shits about how much someone can do with a geared lift. What really pisses me off is when someone throws it out there like its raw, but that's because I have a frame of reference. The gear is an extension of the lifter. Of course it takes skill and strength. Valentino Rossi can ride the same motorcycle a hell of a lot faster than I can, so what? Why don't I get impressed when someone says they can squat x,xxx lbs geared? It's probably a puritan thing. But if squatting or benching in a devise with so much mechanical advantage that you can't get below parallel or to the pause position without a loaded barbell is your thing, knock yourself out. Unless they make a snatch suit. Then I'd probably be all over that. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Question for those making statements about raw vs geared, techniques being basically cheating, etc... Do you have proof that you can do those lifts - even geared or using that technique - at a similar level? If so, what gives you the idea you have any kind of informed opinion on the matter? I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but these conversations baffle me, and are usually (not always, but usually) had by those who cant even come close to matching the level of lifting they're shit talking about. Its like the GD "can you bench 225" threads and the slew of bullshit that goes with them and the goobers that don't even really lift and challenge themselves bloviating about how you're going to wreck your shit and end up crippled (as if most powerlifters would care even if that was true). I'm honestly curious. It reminds me of dudes that spout off about "CNS Exhaustion" who skip lift days and only squat once a week because "muh CNS! overtraining!". I give zero shits about how much someone can do with a geared lift. What really pisses me off is when someone throws it out there like its raw, but that's because I have a frame of reference. The gear is an extension of the lifter. Of course it takes skill and strength. Valentino Rossi can ride the same motorcycle a hell of a lot faster than I can, so what? Why don't I get impressed when someone says they can squat x,xxx lbs geared? It's probably a puritan thing. But if squatting or benching in a devise with so much mechanical advantage that you can't get below parallel or to the pause position without a loaded barbell is your thing, knock yourself out. Unless they make a snatch suit. Then I'd probably be all over that. A lot of folks that talk about it are the same ones that think steroids magically give a dude a 2000# total. I only compete Raw FWIW. I tried on a squat suit last year and fuck that shit. |
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LOL one of the older guys my son lifts with gave him an Inzer bench shirt. The Shirt, as he calls it, ( like the guy wasnt in it) benched 630lbs. In 1984! Son put it on and had to get help getting it off.
He tried benching with it and it MAKES you us an ultra wide grip, ie Jap grip above. Said it reaaly limits your range of motion. When he got done it looked like someone took a cheesegrater to his armpit region! Shirt doesn't look like much, sort of Under Armourish, but again, its 30+ years old. Funny thing, whatever sanctioning body he'll be competing in allows this stuff, but no compression shorts. I think his DL bar is called a Texas bar: it moves alot before the weights do. This meet uses a rigid bar, no give. Said its much harder. He still says mixing geared and raw lifting makes you stronger. I know when he was 14 , his grip was his limiting factor for deadlifts. So he got some hook/ strap things and really bumped his DLs. Wasnt long before he was hitting 500 raw. He has been squatting well into the 6s with a suit, but went 3x505 beltless, just kneewraps last week. He uses chains alot too, on squat and bench. Lol, I need to get my broken down old butt back at it. Started good in 2016, shoulder issues in June, so I stopped. Just realized its almost been a year. |
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I have mixed opinions on gear. I have worn it. I have tried a lot of shirts. Its not easy to find what works for you. The newer stuff is miles ahead of the old stuff. I have dabbled in and out of PL for over 20yrs. Yes its all hard on you. Im 45 and it has taken a minor toll. I know a lot of guys that never stepped foot in a gym that are a lot worse off. Keep it all in perspective. A bit of gear for shorth periods wouldn't be bad. Im done with gear but I still use a slingshot or ram on occasion.
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LOL he said his bench went DOWN with the shirt. Said its a different technique.
He' s bummed: had planned on competing in July and all 120 slots, plus waiting list, filled up first day. Looks like late August now. Told him to look on the right side, he' ll be that much stronger then. I know he is signed up for a raw meet in December as well. |
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LOL he said his bench went DOWN with the shirt. Said its a different technique. He' s bummed: had planned on competing in July and all 120 slots, plus waiting list, filled up first day. Looks like late August now. Told him to look on the right side, he' ll be that much stronger then. I know he is signed up for a raw meet in December as well. View Quote |
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He got another Inzer bench shirt and BP went from 340 raw to 385 with shirt.
I can see gear as a training aid, but REALLY dont see the point of geared competitions. |
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