I just completed my first half marathon with a time of 1:59:19.  40 year old male living in northeast Ohio.

The question now - when should I attempt a full marathon?  I see the options as follows:

1) Spring 2016 (either Canton 4/24/16 or Cleveland 5/15/16).  This will push my training rather hard over the fall/winter.  I will definitely have to run some more half marathons between now and the end of this year (there's one in a hilly portion of Amish country near me 11/28/15).  If we have a bad winter this could be sort of dicey.  I could register for the half marathon at either (or both) of these spring events instead and decide later to upgrade?  Really, the only reason to attempt these spring full marathons is to push myself while accepting the possibility of failure.

2) Fall 2016 (either Akron in late September or Columbus 10/16/16).  Certainly attainable.  I will run a full marathon at one of these no matter what, the only question is whether it will be my first full marathon.  I will succeed here one way or the other.  The nice thing about having a year to train is that I can stretch out my training schedule through some better weather months in Ohio.

I'm also curious as to the experience of others when transitioning from a half marathon to a full marathon.  Obviously you have to slow your pace some but how much?  If someone can run a 2 hour half then what sort of time should they expect in a full?  4:10?

What sort of weekly mileage should I be shooting for?  To date I have only been in the 15-20 miles per week range (3 days per week; alternating 3.7, 4.6 and 8.0 mile routes).  I am sure this will need to go up but by how much?  Do I need to average 30 miles a week to train for the full marathon or more like 60?

Tag for input.

 


From my experience. I've done about 6 halfs at 1:45-1:50. Done 1 full just under 4 hours (literally a few seconds under).




My marathon training had 3-4 race specific runs. One interval/speed training run, one-two tempo runs and a long run on the weekends. My long run maxed out at about 22 miles, weekly max at about 35 miles. I used the Jack Daniels pace calculator for training paces (you can google it).




From my very limited experience is you want to check yourself the first half or so. You'll probably want and feel that you can run faster but it can bite you in the ass on the tail end.


 

I'm only responding because nobody else has. Disclaimer- I'm not a runner anymore, and even when I was I didn't follow a good plan, I just kind of winged it.

I've run 3 marathons. My fastest was 3:40. IMO 6 months to go from a half to a full is plenty of time (barring missing a lot of training due to weather). I ran that 3:40 on about 30-35 miles a week. I think my longest training run was 22 miles. IMO 60 a week is way too much. My experience is that 30-40 a week is plenty.
Increase mileage slowly.

Some of the more experienced runners will hopefully come along to help.

I run with a lot of marathoners and have run a number of half marathons as fast at 1:33:xx, but my only 26.2 was as the third leg of an Ironman.

McMillan's running calculator predicts that your 1:59 would translate to 4:11 marathon time, but that assumes that you are doing marathon-volume training - at least 40 miles per week.

Based on your half marathon time, Daniels' running formula pegs your Vdot (a measure he uses to determine training paces and predict race times) at 37.

That spits out your training paces as:

Endurance:  10:49/mile
Marathon:9:20 (used for specific workout for marathoners.  those training for half marathon would use that pace)
Threshold:  8:44
400M Intervals at 1:59/400M

Distance running best practices would have you running 5-6 days per week with your longest run being no more than 1/4 - 1/3 of your weekly total.  I know plenty of people that ran great marathons with a longest training run of 16 miles following those guidelines.

Is your goal to just finish the marathon and get a t-shirt or are you looking to push yourself?

Marathon is a different beast.  If you want to actually run the thing and not end up doing a death-shuffle the last 6 miles,  I'd recommend working up to, and then averaging, 35-40 mile weeks over the next 6-9 months.  After that another 18 weeks on a dedicated marathon plan that gets you up to 55+ miles per week.  So that puts you at fall 2016.  

You could try a marathon in the spring just for the experience,  but I can almost guarantee your tendons will not be ready for it, and your joints will lock up like Fort Knox somewhere near mile 20.  High risk of a setback injury.  

I ran my first half marathon in 1:35...and 6 months later under-estimated the marathon distance and ran a horrible experience 4:12.  Even though I had worked up to 18 mile long runs!

Current PR is just under 3 hours.  But it has taken a lot of time and running . One thing I've learned that is completely true in the marathon "20 miles is halfway"

What about Erie?  Typically in mid-September and a dead flat course.  There can't be more than 50 feet of elevation change.  It's a pretty course from what I remember (haven't been there in 10 years), but it is 2 laps on the Peninsula - some folks don't care for lap courses.

Just Garmin connect mapped the Erie marathon course.  About 60' of elevation change per lap.  Do IT!

My home town.

FWIW, training through the winter in your neck of the woods can really suck - as I'm sure you know.  Even down here in SE VA where I live now, the folks who would sign up for Ironman Florida because it's flat (held in Nov) were always begging for training partners because everyone else had cut back going into winter.  Short days suck for that mid-week long run.

I would recommend that you spend the winter ramping up to running 5-6 days per week, if the marathon is a big priority for you.  Run a bunch of spring 5K/10K to check your fitness, have fun, and update training paces along the way, and then start building your miles through the the summer.

You will probably enjoy your marathon more that way and have a lower injury risk, which is highly correlated with long runs > 2.5 hours, by slowly upping your weekly miles.

Looks like my old standby recommendation for discerning your training pace based on current fitness, the McMillan calculator, has disappeared behind a pay wall.

Jack Daniels has an online calculator available here

If you're interested in setting up your own training schedule, I highly recommend his book link

The bulk of your weekly miles should be at the "easy" pace with a couple forays into threshold and repetition pace sessions.  Early on, you will do more "polarized" training - some very hard and most very easy.

As you get closer to your race date, the plan transitions to easy + threshold work.  Closer still brings you to mainly easy/endurance pace with long sections of marathon race pace work during the session.

I "ran" a marathon....once...

I was training to run a half marathon and I wont forget the first time I actually ran 13 miles, I felt awesome when I finished, in fact I was on the far side of the path I took about 2 miles from home, so after resting for like 3 minutes I decided to keep running back home.. I did this again every time I attempted 3 miles.

I started running 6 miles at the start of the week, then 9 miles then 11 then 15 with one day of walking 3 miles in between. about a week  before the marathon I decided Ill run as much as I could on day and ended up running almost 20 miles before stopping and walking back home.

Day before the marathon I went to pick up my number and other goodies and decided to sign up for the full marathon instead it was just $10 more bucks, I thought.."yeah I can do this1" That afternoon I had a bowl full of pasta an some protein powder with water,  

Marathon day: got up at 4 am, started getting ready and for some reason I remembered that pic going around the internet of a guy who crapped his pants  while running a marathon, so I made sure I went before I left

It starts: I knew I was only in it to finish so I picked a spot with the 4 hour guys.  We were a large crowd up until the 3rd mile thats when the fastest guys were starting to get further ahead and I was still further ahead than most of the crowd.  Then the halfway point for the half marathon came up I felt awesome and said "fuck it lets do this" and ran like the wind until about mile 17.  (sometime between the half marathon turnaround and the halfway point for the marathon I already started seeing guys SPRINTING BACK IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION ....wow)

By mile 18 I started feeling cramps and came across a table that were giving gatorade so I grabbed a cup  and then pulled out a granola bar and some gummies I walked for about 1 mile while I ate and gave my legs some rest. I still though I would be able to finish runnning and in decent time.  I start back jogging and on mile 21 my legs had enough, were literally jello some guy that was bouncing 2 basketballs  passed right by me and for some reason I found this hilarious and almost fell over, so I knew Id have to walk for a wile or risk not finishing or worse.

I ended up walking almost 3 more  miles stopping all over the place to get gatoraid water and even beer, I ate everything I brought with me 1 pack of gummies, 2 granola bars and a trail mix someone handed to me back there somewhere.  As I was coming up on the last stretch a few miles of A1A in fort lauderdale. I was already dry and well hydrated again so I picked up the pace again and managed to finish running....just ahead of the 60 year old ladies and a couple of guys who were limping

my total time was about 5 hours and I walked close to 4 of the 26 miles but I "finished" even though I didnt train for a full marathon I dont remember my 13.1 mile time but I think it was about average for everyone who ran the half, and I was among the last 200 people who completed the full marathon......

I honestly dont think ill try that again, but just typing this makes me want to go jooging later today.  

So stick to a training regime thats serious and works for you. I was just dicking around  train at different times of the day and in as much weather as you can, rain, sunny etc. and if possible varried terrain as well.

I ran around my apartment complex about 3 miles all around completely flat (sidewalk all around)  from september to december  usualy after 5 pm  in florida that means that it was either kinda warm to freaking hot. and was either sunny or raining. It started getting cooler in december  It was like 32 degrees the morning of the marathon and I felt like I was freezing for just about the whole time I was out there. but that kind of helped keep me going.

Have fun  

I have some friends in Erie so maybe...

I'm not afraid of hills.  Some of my current routes have 300+ feet of elevation change.  I tend to smile more on the uphills.  I also pass faster runners than me on the uphills even though they overtake me later on the flats.

It seems like with 6 months of training, and learning my slower marathon pace, I can do this in the late spring.  I think maybe I'll shoot for the full in late spring and be willing to change plans if weather/injury puts me behind schedule.

Now I just need to hash out a good training schedule.

Sort of 6 months.  It's going to take you 6-8 weeks to get your mileage doubled and most plans have a 2-3 week taper, so you really have about 4 months of training - through the winter and over the Thanksgiving/Christmas holidays.  Good luck!

The recommendation for a flat course has nothing to do with being afraid of hills.  I recommended it for 2 reasons:  1) a hilly course is going to be slower i.e. you're going to be out there for more time - it's effectively like adding extra miles to the race and 2) pacing on hills can be tricky, especially for new runners.  very tempting to try to hold a goal pace on the way up the hill, which means you're working too hard and you'll end up walking later on in the race.  

If you train a lot on hills, it won't be as bad.  I'm sensitive to it because it's extremely flat here in SE VA.   I took some folks up to do the triathlon at Cedar Point a few years back, telling them it was a flat course.  When they saw the very minor hills around Sandusky, they started bitching "you said this was flat.  there are hills here!".  

No, you're not going to be ready in 6 months.  But good luck!  

Define "ready". He's not looking to break any marathon records or anything, but in my experience 6 months is plenty of time to safely go from half to full marathon. Am I missing something here?

Well, the definition of "ready" for one.  6 months is fine to do some Galloway method run/walk or otherwise day trip your way through a marathon.  Also, OP is 40 years old and doesn't have a history of distance running.  Slow mileage ramp is important in injury prevention at that age.  Ask me how I know

If the goal is "finish", 6 months is plenty of time.  If the goal is to race it i.e. push as hard as he can for the distance, 6 months, through a northeast Ohio winter and holiday season...  Do you know how much snow that neck of the woods gets?

Right, I understand that 6 months isn't going to break any land speed records and that slow ramp up is required. I know winters are rough there as well.

Yeah, I guess it depends on OP's goals in running the marathon.

Sounds like I need to provide some more history/context and clarity to my goals:

I have been running for about 3 years now.  Back in April 2013 I had weight reduction surgery (vertical gastric sleeve) and got back into running shape so as to stay fit and keep the weight off.  It has worked, I'm down about 120 pounds from pre-surgery.  Throughout the summer of 2014 I ran various 5Ks, ending with a leg of the 5-man team marathon relay in Akron.  It felt good so I kept at it, deciding to push for more distance.  Here in 2015 I mostly ran 10Ks, ending with the half-marathon in Akron last weekend.  My goal for the half was 2:10 or better so I did EXCEPTIONALLY WELL FOR ME.  I'm not going to win any medals, even for my age group, but I can be (and am) proud of running the whole race without taking a walking break at all.  I figure this is a good level of fitness for me and is sustainable.

Why the full marathon?  Because I want to keep pushing out my PERSONAL boundaries.  If I don't try it I'll never know if it was possible.  Furthermore, at this point "just finish without taking a walking break" is all I care about for the full marathon.  Many have pointed out that the full is a different animal altogether and I want to experience what my body does at those distances before I try to push for a faster time.  This is going to be my FIRST BUT NOT ONLY marathon.  This is NOT checking something off of a bucket list.  I want to see how I do and then formulate a plan to improve.

One of my buddies who is an ultra-runner is helping me hash out a training schedule.  There will be slop in there for weather and possible injury setbacks.  I had a training regimen for the half marathon as well that included 6 weeks of slop time for such eventualities - ended up getting a nasty cold 2 weeks before the race!  Indeed, one of the reasons to run the half was to gauge what sort of shape I was in to decide whether or not I could push for a full sooner rather than later.  Since I beat my goal time by 10 minutes I feel somewhat confident that I can do this sooner (spring).

So we'll see.  I figure I'll register for a half in April and a full in May with the option to downgrade the May to a half if my training lags for weather or whatnot.  Feedback from the half in April will also be relevant.

I don't understand why so many people seem to believe that boundary pushing is all about going farther instead of faster.  Farther isn't that hard - you just slow down enough and you can go virtually forever.

To me, a 45 minute 10K is more impressive than a 4 hour marathon, and they're about equally doable, but just about everyone seems to be more impressed by the 4 hour marathon.  That's my bias though.

Best of luck to you in your marathon quest OP.

My wife, who is absolutely NOT an athlete much less a runner, trained for and completed a marathon with less than 6 months of training. (but it was right around 5 months maybe)

She and her running partner worked up to 18 miles during training. I think there might have been one 20 mile run.

She downloaded a running plan from the internet that outlined her runs etc. It worked well for her. She did about four runs a week with one day of "cross training".

She finished around 4:18.

It motivated me to start running and I just finished my first half.

First week of training down.  Ran 3 days:
Tuesday 3.7 miles
Thursday 8.0 miles
Sunday 10.2 miles

Pretty happy with that.

This next week I'll try to get 4 total runs in with a 14.8 mile or so long run over the weekend.

Was the half marathon race your longest run in your training buildup?

Yes, that 13.1 miles the other weekend was the furthest run of my life.

I recommend that you build your mileage by increasing run frequency and take it easy on trying to stretch your long run.

Your total weekly miles are going to have more to do with success than your long run distance, but injury risk is more related to your long run duration.

 






Had to emphasize it.    You're falling into the trap my dumbass fell into.  I got all long run happy after my first half and did some dumb shit a few weeks later like back to back 15-18milers on a weekend preparing for a marathon and 50k and stress fractured my foot...




Shoulda listened






 

When ultra runner Jenn Shelton used to live in VA Beach, I would often bump into her on the trails and when I asked her about her training, Jen said that she almost never did a training run longer than 20 miles.  Think about that.  No more than 20 miles, which for Jen was probably in the 2h30m-2h45m range, and she was training for 100 mile races and putting in ~100 miles per week.

$7 on Kindle or $19 paperback.  One of the best, most accessible books on distance running training and racing.  Following the guidance in this book will help you stay healthy and give you a better chance of running a successful marathon.

What did I miss?  I thought you were not an endurance fan.

I've decided to expand my self destruction to include the slow burn. ??

That must be amusing at your size or have you shrunk some?  How much strength work are you doing?

Into the 220's from the 260+

Lift 2 days, endurance 5-6 days.


30-50lbs more to go before I can max speed....

Holy cow!  That's a serious transformation.  How's your wardrobe holding up?

All new...

Literally.  


Pretty barebones considering my continued plans...




Running...


Who'd a thunk it.

Week 2 update:
Tuesday 4.6 miles
Wednesday 8.0 miles
Thursday 3.7 miles
Saturday 13.0 miles

I dialed back my pace for the 13 miler to 10 minutes per mile and felt really good doing it.  Certainly had gas left in the tank at the end.

Figure I'll let the 13 mile route be my longest route until December or so.  Might add the odd mile or two during the shorter midweek runs.

I would have never.  Not even a little bit.

Week 3 update:

Tuesday 5.8 miles
Wednesday 8.0 miles
Thursday 3.7 miles
Sunday 11.0 miles

During my 8 mile run I think I pulled a hip muscle.  Gutted out the rest of it and the next day's run, too.  Couple days rest before the 11 miler which was going fine until mile #9, then agony.  Now my right hip and knee hurt.  Shutting down all running for a week to heal.

That didn't take long.

I'm sorry you're sidelined.  Hope you heal quickly.

What makes me mad is that it happened on a route that I've run a zillion times before.  That 8 mile route is an old friend.  I wasn't pushing myself particularly hard.

One of my running buddies chided me with, "Dude, you're 40 years old, now...this is going to happen and you MUST let yourself heal."  As unhappy as I am I suspect he's right.

Hints.

1) frequency over duration for your volume.


2). Twinge of bad pain? Shut it down for a few days. Better a few days than a few weeks/months...

It's unlikely that the injury has anything to do with the route, unless you pulled the muscle leaping over an obstacle or balancing yourself on uneven ground.

Took 2 weeks off running to heal thoroughly.  Just ran my short 3.7 mile route this afternoon and it felt good.  Back to the routine this week.

Also tried out some new cold weather running gear even though it wasn't that cold today.  I was plenty warm.  I think I will be fine running in the 20-ish degree weather that is surely coming.