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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:42:04 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Give him a break, he's clearly an OU fan with the username. Go Pokes!  Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg Here is a guy that doesn't understand how EMG works or scientific studies. He also hasn't squatted over 400 lbs. Give him a break, he's clearly an OU fan with the username. Go Pokes! Undergrad was OU, graduate school was OSU, I like both! Oh, and I hate texas. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:43:20 PM EDT
[#2]
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Undergrad was OU, graduate school was OSU, I like both! Oh, and I hate texas. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I can absolutely refute it. Give me a bit, I'll find the research on it. Here is the easy to find article. I've read journal articles on it as well. https://www.t-nation.com/training/core-confusion https://www.t-nation.com/system/publishing/article_assets/1590/original/Rectus-Abdominis.jpg Here is a guy that doesn't understand how EMG works or scientific studies. He also hasn't squatted over 400 lbs. Give him a break, he's clearly an OU fan with the username. Go Pokes! Undergrad was OU, graduate school was OSU, I like both! Oh, and I hate texas. Well, damnit, now I have to help bail you out of this mess you created. Which side are we arguing? 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 6:57:44 PM EDT
[#3]
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I think 5x5 is a better and free version of starting strength personally. I also think most get excited here about any direct work because the vast majority don't like it/ isn't popular. It certainly has its place and isn't worth arguing about imo. To clarify I'm not saying don't squat or deadlift either. Right and that's kinda my point. SS is just easy to recommend. 5x5 is good to go as well. Big compound lifts are what we're REALLY recommending. I do direct core work a couple times a week usually. 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:06:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Right and that's kinda my point. SS is just easy to recommend. 5x5 is good to go as well. Big compound lifts are what we're REALLY recommending. I do direct core work a couple times a week usually. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think 5x5 is a better and free version of starting strength personally. I also think most get excited here about any direct work because the vast majority don't like it/ isn't popular. It certainly has its place and isn't worth arguing about imo. To clarify I'm not saying don't squat or deadlift either. Right and that's kinda my point. SS is just easy to recommend. 5x5 is good to go as well. Big compound lifts are what we're REALLY recommending. I do direct core work a couple times a week usually. I figure it is much more important in oly lifting than powerlifting since all that overhead work needs your abs to stabilize much more effectively. Obliques as well. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:27:02 PM EDT
[#5]
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I coach a couple classes a month for them (good friends of mine) so I actually get paid 
I think they charge $150 a month or so for unlimited, which is a good deal in SoCal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How much do you pay a month Roland? This place by my house i think is 100.00 a month, all the classes you can handle. I tried quoting you, but I still haven't figured out how do get rid of all the quotes correctly. I coach a couple classes a month for them (good friends of mine) so I actually get paid
I think they charge $150 a month or so for unlimited, which is a good deal in SoCal. You live in that commie state? I'm sorry. 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 7:33:29 PM EDT
[#6]
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Right and that's kinda my point. SS is just easy to recommend. 5x5 is good to go as well. Big compound lifts are what we're REALLY recommending. I do direct core work a couple times a week usually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I think 5x5 is a better and free version of starting strength personally. I also think most get excited here about any direct work because the vast majority don't like it/ isn't popular. It certainly has its place and isn't worth arguing about imo. To clarify I'm not saying don't squat or deadlift either. Right and that's kinda my point. SS is just easy to recommend. 5x5 is good to go as well. Big compound lifts are what we're REALLY recommending. I do direct core work a couple times a week usually. Whether you do 5x5 or SS or Greyskull doesn't really matter they are all basically the same and based off Bill Star's original program that has worked since the 70's They all use compound movements with linear progression. I like Greyskull the best because he gives you more opitions for plug-ins. I also like the fact that Squats are twice a week and are at the end so when you are done squating you go home. I think it allows you to put more effort into deads also. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 8:18:07 PM EDT
[#7]
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I just read the article, according to the article they would conclude that a guy who does a bunch of the bosu ball exercises and does not squat or deadlift would have stronger abs and core than a guy who deadlifts 700 pounds but never uses a bosu ball. I don't even know what to say... Here is my opinion on direct ab work. Yes you have strong abs if you have a strong deadlift and squat, but I figure they are not that hard to do so I do 2-3 sets for my abs everytime I lift. I just don't anything that is weighted especially after reading all of Dr. Stuart McGill's research. I usually do some of the anti movement exersices. Anti-extension, Anti-lateral flexion, Anti-rotation.....I also like vacuums for some odd reason. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:32:12 PM EDT
[#8]
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Oh good I am just finishing week 5 of 600mg a week....nice knowing you guys, I will probably be dead by week 12 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Oh good I am just finishing week 5 of 600mg a week....nice knowing you guys, I will probably be dead by week 12 Lightweight |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:39:09 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lightweight Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Oh good I am just finishing week 5 of 600mg a week....nice knowing you guys, I will probably be dead by week 12 Lightweight 600mg? what are you trying to turn into a woman? |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:48:18 PM EDT
[#10]
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Lightweight Just learning and taking it easy! |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:49:30 PM EDT
[#11]
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600mg? what are you trying to turn into a woman? Not a problem with 25MG exemastane daily. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 10:44:20 AM EDT
[#12]
I know this thread has taken a detour, but as to the OP, I recommend SS simply because having come back to lifting post internet age I had no idea how to get started in an age of MASS amounts of information. When I lifted in the 90's, you got a coach and he answered all your questions. You had one (or a couple) sources of information. Now, it's completely bananas.
I have a philosophy that on the internets, you can get a million opinions and usually the consensus is the the best answer. When it comes to lifting weights and losing weight, there is no fucking consensus. Everyone is a pro and everyone has an opinion. SS is a trusted, proven method of here just do this and ignore the retards approach to helping new people sort through the riff raff and get busy. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 11:21:57 AM EDT
[#13]
Therein lies the problem- the internet is both wonderful and awful for these very reasons.
I would still recommend getting a good coach over just about anything, but for those that can't, a tried and true program like SS or 5/3/1 is the next best thing for a lot of goals. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 11:56:45 AM EDT
[#14]
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Therein lies the problem- the internet is both wonderful and awful for these very reasons. I would still recommend getting a good coach over just about anything, but for those that can't, a tried and true program like SS or 5/3/1 is the next best thing for a lot of goals. The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 3:04:15 PM EDT
[#15]
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The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 3:37:48 PM EDT
[#16]
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Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. Some new lifters seem annoyed when I point them to SS, and not tell them to do what I'm doing. I think they think that I'm trying to keep the super secret exercise tips to myself. I try to explain that those of us who have lifted for a while would still be doing linear progressions and adding 5 lbs a week if we could, and we'd have 2500lb squats and deadlifts. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 3:52:21 PM EDT
[#17]
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Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. That's what I said. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 4:14:31 PM EDT
[#18]
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I have a philosophy that on the internets, you can get a million opinions and usually the consensus is the the best answer. When it comes to lifting weights and losing weight, there is no fucking consensus. Everyone is a pro and everyone has an opinion. There is a ton of good info out there that I purposely ignore because I don't feel like sorting through who is actually smart and wants to help their fellow lifters and who is just some dumbass douche looking to become a youtube superstar and make money off of adds attached to their videos. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 4:20:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Trust eliteFTS and Juggernaut. That's about it.
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Posted: 4/25/2015 4:46:08 PM EDT
[#20]
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Trust eliteFTS and Juggernaut. That's about it. There are more than that those are very narrow set of info gear toward geared lifter. I like Elloit Hulse. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 4:53:41 PM EDT
[#21]
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There are more than that those are very narrow set of info gear toward geared lifter. I like Elloit Hulse. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Trust eliteFTS and Juggernaut. That's about it. There are more than that those are very narrow set of info gear toward geared lifter. I like Elloit Hulse. Actually, both of those cover quite a bit more than geared lifting - EliteFTS has covers raw and geared powerlifting, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Juggernaut covers mostly raw powerlifting, Oly lifting, Crossfit, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Didn't we just talk about how Hulse went off on some god complex thing a little while ago? |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 5:08:12 PM EDT
[#22]
Elliot went off the deep end
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Posted: 4/25/2015 5:17:32 PM EDT
[#23]
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Actually, both of those cover quite a bit more than geared lifting - EliteFTS has covers raw and geared powerlifting, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Juggernaut covers mostly raw powerlifting, Oly lifting, Crossfit, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Didn't we just talk about how Hulse went off on some god complex thing a little while ago? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Trust eliteFTS and Juggernaut. That's about it. There are more than that those are very narrow set of info gear toward geared lifter. I like Elloit Hulse. Actually, both of those cover quite a bit more than geared lifting - EliteFTS has covers raw and geared powerlifting, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Juggernaut covers mostly raw powerlifting, Oly lifting, Crossfit, bodybuilding, sport performance, nutrition, etc. Didn't we just talk about how Hulse went off on some god complex thing a little while ago? He has went a little weird some but he has a lot of good info in his older videos. T-nation has some good info you just have to watch who wrote the article a couple of them are good the rest not so much. Jim Wendler site has a lot of good info to. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 5:26:46 PM EDT
[#24]
I pay attention to the following,
Chris Duffin/Kabuki Warrior Mike Tuscherrer/Reactive Training Systems Greg Knuckols/Strengtheory.com Matt Garry/Supreme Sports Performance and Training (not a big source of info, but good) Gabriel Naspinski, elitefts author I am probably forgetting one or two. EliteFTS is ok, but in terms of articles it is more about the author than the site itself. I am sure most of articles are quality, but I don't find a majority of them personally interesting. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 5:49:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Then there's this Wish Elliot still had the original video up lol
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Posted: 4/25/2015 5:59:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryElloit is a little weird but the guy that made the video if a fucking idoit! |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 6:51:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryThat dude is loco. |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 7:08:25 PM EDT
[#28]
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That's what I said. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. That's what I said. I miss read/understood your post |
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Posted: 4/25/2015 7:41:39 PM EDT
[#29]
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Lightweight Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Prepare for me to unload the knowledge on you... Ready??!! Get yourself some testosterone. Lots of it. Inject it in your ass. Muscles will build on top of your muscles. You. Do. Nothing. Else. Now go get huge while sitting on the couch. Not sure if serious? My sarcasm meter might need calibration? Injecting test will certainly help, but you gotta work really hard. Really really hard, and eat lots of food. For a long time. Dammit. My iPhone won't let me post hyperlinks anymore. Crashes safari. Pretend I linked arfcom GD as my "steroids experts" to back up my claims. Maybe that gives you an idea of where I'm coming from. Oh good I am just finishing week 5 of 600mg a week....nice knowing you guys, I will probably be dead by week 12 Lightweight I like this guy
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Posted: 4/25/2015 8:05:19 PM EDT
[#30]
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There is a ton of good info out there that I purposely ignore because I don't feel like sorting through who is actually smart and wants to help their fellow lifters and who is just some dumbass douche looking to become a youtube superstar and make money off of adds attached to their videos. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have a philosophy that on the internets, you can get a million opinions and usually the consensus is the the best answer. When it comes to lifting weights and losing weight, there is no fucking consensus. Everyone is a pro and everyone has an opinion. There is a ton of good info out there that I purposely ignore because I don't feel like sorting through who is actually smart and wants to help their fellow lifters and who is just some dumbass douche looking to become a youtube superstar and make money off of adds attached to their videos. That's exactly why I follow Coach Rip. If I tried to sort out all the info and what's nonsense and what's not I'd be changing my routine twice a week and getting nowhere. I picked a guy, and followed him. I read a lot of other stuff but I keep my lifting focused mostly on SS. Kinda like when someone sees you low bar squat and they say "you gotta keep your chin up, look at the ceiling, lead with the chest" and you wanna punch them in the throat. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 12:21:23 PM EDT
[#31]
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I miss read/understood your post Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The problem with 5/3/1 is it's not the most thorough book. And it's like do some accessories or maybe not or whatever. Starting Strength is better for noobs. Because Jim wrote 5/3/1 for more advanced lifters. You should have a good strength base, know the exersices and know what you need to work on. That is why the accessories are written the way they are. That's what I said. I miss read/understood your post I think 5/3/1 is far more easy to customize. As much as I like Wendler, I was really dissapointed in "Beyond 5/3/1" for the various reasons you guys pointed out. I felt like that was something he could've put up for free versus charging for it. I won't fault someone for wanting to get paid for their IP, but it was the worst of the books in terms of, "here's 2000 different ways you can do 5/3/1". I still get a little bit angry about "Joker Reps". If I were truly going to write a program for someone that came into this forum and asked while realizing they aren't going to listen, it would be something like SS with the BBB template of 5/3/1 and some HIIT at the very end of 2-3 workouts. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 12:51:28 PM EDT
[#32]
That sounds like a good program.
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Posted: 4/26/2015 1:11:34 PM EDT
[#33]
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That sounds like a good program. I trademarked it. It's called KaikFit. Also, I'm going to sue you into oblivion for your username now.
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Posted: 4/26/2015 3:56:04 PM EDT
[#34]
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I trademarked it. It's called KaikFit. Also, I'm going to sue you into oblivion for your username now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That sounds like a good program. I trademarked it. It's called KaikFit. Also, I'm going to sue you into oblivion for your username now. 
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Posted: 4/26/2015 5:09:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
Want to lose weight? Strength program meant to be run at a caloric surplus. Want to tone up? 35 reps 3 times a week. Want abs? Squat (well, actually this one ain't bad advise) Want to look like Pitt in fight club? No, you don't want to look like that, you want to squat 405 at 22% body fat.
Want to be faster, stronger and harder to kill? Then yes, SS is a good starting point, but for the first three? We have a complete beginner that wants and needs to lose weight, why is the knee jerk answer always Rippetoe! Can we agree that in this scenario, diet (caloric deficit) should be the priority? Then why advise a low volume strength routine. Because build muscle mass and losing the fat will be easier? They're a beginner, they'll see gains from whatever gimmick program they do if they stick with it. But there's the rub, "if they stick with it." And I guess if they'll see gains from any program anyway, why not start with compound barbell movements? Or we can just tell them to crossfit. 'losin weight' happens in a caloric deficit and abs are made in the kitchen. If you do too much volume while training in a caloric deficit you'll overstress yourself and end up getting minor nagging colds all the time while generally feeling like shit. "More is better" is a very popular assumption among new trainers, especially after a lifetime of reading men's health and seeing another 'natural' bodybuilder's ripped n jacked arms routine with 10 tons of volume in curls alone. |
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Posted: 4/26/2015 5:33:03 PM EDT
[#36]
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You live in that commie state? I'm sorry. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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How much do you pay a month Roland? This place by my house i think is 100.00 a month, all the classes you can handle. I tried quoting you, but I still haven't figured out how do get rid of all the quotes correctly. I coach a couple classes a month for them (good friends of mine) so I actually get paid
I think they charge $150 a month or so for unlimited, which is a good deal in SoCal. You live in that commie state? I'm sorry. Don't be. I won't live here forever, but I'm enjoying it for now. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 5:21:25 PM EDT
[#37]
I dont know what its called but most people starting out do what i call intutitive weight lifting. They go to the gym with no real plan, workout by what feels right that day without tracking progress. That never worked for me. I had a respectable bench, biceps and abs doing that but once progress stalled it stayed stalled.
in hind sight i was doing too much "work" with no real plan. Thats still what i see every high school kid in the gym doing come summer. Thank God i eventually found a clue and dumbed it down to the basics; Pull ups, Squats, OHP, Bench, Dips and Deads. Ive made more progress with that KISS workout than i ever did putzing around in the gym doing four different kinds of curls for too many sets of too many reps. SS, Strong lifts and 5/3/1 get recommended so often because they are simple and they work. |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 6:52:34 PM EDT
[#38]
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I dont know what its called but most people starting out do what i call intutitive weight lifting. They go to the gym with no real plan, workout by what feels right that day without tracking progress. That never worked for me. I had a respectable bench, biceps and abs doing that but once progress stalled it stayed stalled It's never worked for anybody |
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Posted: 5/7/2015 9:23:58 PM EDT
[#39]
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It's never worked for anybody Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I dont know what its called but most people starting out do what i call intutitive weight lifting. They go to the gym with no real plan, workout by what feels right that day without tracking progress. That never worked for me. I had a respectable bench, biceps and abs doing that but once progress stalled it stayed stalled It's never worked for anybody Well, almost anything can "work" for a beginner, but then we'd have to agree on what work really means. |
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