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autumnsong
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Posted: 3/26/2012 1:39:20 PM
I have worn a pair of VFF for over a year and found that I really like them for lifting, plyo, and other gym type exercise but don't like them for running or yoga. I like them for lifting and plyo because my balance seems better. For running, I just can't get past heel striking so they just don't work. That is my fault though, not the VFF. With yoga, I learned with bare feet so nothing else ever feels quite right.
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stutzcattle
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Posted: 3/26/2012 8:25:46 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stutzcattle:
Originally Posted By MarkHatfield:
'Water shoes' are far cheaper and give the same results.


Far cheaper and not the same results at all.


Why is that? I know a ton of people who have been using minimal shoes for quite some time and have gone to something like that or a cross country flat in order to save money. Theyre all made out of EVA foam, have somewhere around a 4 mil offset from heel to forefoot and no real cushioning system.


I'd say it really depends on the quality of water shoes. The good water shoes are probably a good alternative. I've got a pair of Merrels and they are very minimalist but still a comfortable shoe. The cheap assed water shoes are junk and wouldn't hold up. Quality is the difference there. I really like the VFFs as water shoes. Probably more so than the merrels. They fit more snug around the ankles, so when in and out of a canoe they don't let mud or gravel into the shoe.

I don't like the VFFs as a running shoe, but I normally run in a trail shoe so I'm used to a heavy, cushiony shoe. I run a lot in the pastures and the VFFs would let grass and shit get stuck between the toes. Pretty annoying, but not as bad as the time I ran in them and ran through a sandbur patch. You haven't lived until you've had sandburs covering your feet and stuck between your toes. Pretty much complete stop, don't take one more frickin' step. Then tip toe out of the sticker patch and never go back.
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stewie97
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Posted: 3/29/2012 12:53:25 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
My wife and I love ours...I have been wearing them for about two years now. I also have a pair of trail gloves that i wear to work daily, and she really likes her new balance minimus. The vff's are by far the most comfortable, but I can't wear them to work.

Just take it slow for the first couple of weeks. You are going to use and stress muscles/ligaments in your feet and legs your body forgot you had.


Just out of curiosity, what would you tell people if you ran into a major injury down the road?


What type of major injury? Like a stress fracture in my foot?

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Posted: 3/29/2012 12:56:38 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:
I never said it was a cure all for everything. But riddle me this, why would the human body be designed to need padded heels on shoes? Hominoids walked and ran without shoes for a few million years, man has only worn shoes for a few thousand and thick soles for only a few hundred and padded soles for less than a hundred.

Shoes protect the feet. In an attempt to make them comfortable we have introduced padding which has changed the way we walk and run and our bodies are reacting to that.

That being said I don't enjoy running on concrete with five fingers, (I don't like it with any shoe) I try to run on natural and uneven surfaces.

I am far far more stable in five fingers than anything else. The stability in my knees doesn't compare to with something with soles.

The injuries in them come from just what I said, you cannot continue to run like you did before. I only run 15-20 minutes in them because there is no way I could keep running correctly beyond that without seriously working on it.

They are not magic, buying them is the easy part. Relearning how to run, much harder.




Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By _RAGNAR_:
I wear them working out, far too ugly to wear out IMO.

That being said it's not just that you need to work into them, you need to learn to run different. If you continue to heel strike no matter how long you take breaking in to them you will hurt yourself.

I wear them at the gym and do 15-20 minute runs in them.

I believe if we all ran different and wore minimalist shoes all the time our knee injury rates would go way down. Walking and running on your forefoot changes the way everything works all the way up through your hips. I'd probably still have my original ACLs if I'd always been working out in these.




Yeah and then our foot and calf injuries would go way up. This type of shoe, let alone form is not the cure all for running issues. People are always going to push themselves too far, too quickly and want/have to run the majority of their milage on asphalt/concrete. If this was a cure all, dont you think it would bigger than just 5% of the entire running market? Dont you think more studies would be coming out proving its better? SMH




Ive run shod for over 20 years with no issues what so ever. This goes back to a post I posted in a different thread. Its ridiculous how people who have tried these shoes connect the dots. Let me rehash here in my last post.

You all want to praise the shoes for these fixes, when its the form change that did you the most good. It does not matter what kind of shoes you wear, or where youre running, if your form sucks, youre going to run into issues. Thats why most of you guys were having issues before. (that or your training regimen was horrible)


I agree with this 100%
It was the vff's that made me change my form. And my crappy form I blame on my high school track coach who insisted that heal striking was the way to go.

smithc6
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Posted: 3/29/2012 1:02:57 PM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
My wife and I love ours...I have been wearing them for about two years now. I also have a pair of trail gloves that i wear to work daily, and she really likes her new balance minimus. The vff's are by far the most comfortable, but I can't wear them to work.

Just take it slow for the first couple of weeks. You are going to use and stress muscles/ligaments in your feet and legs your body forgot you had.


Just out of curiosity, what would you tell people if you ran into a major injury down the road?


What type of major injury? Like a stress fracture in my foot?



Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
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Posted: 3/29/2012 3:01:27 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.





smithc6
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Posted: 3/29/2012 3:09:51 PM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
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Posted: 3/30/2012 8:32:55 AM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.

smithc6
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Posted: 3/30/2012 10:55:46 AM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



Yes, I completely agree.
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
RolandofGilead
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Posted: 3/30/2012 11:07:40 AM

Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



And this is one reason IMO that there are so many people who get injuries from them....plus you have a lot of people who really aren't runners at all using minimalist shoes and they go run long distance once a week or something and their body just can't handle it.
If your problem can't be fixed with squats or fish oil, you are probably going to die.
smithc6
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Posted: 3/30/2012 11:11:54 AM
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



And this is one reason IMO that there are so many people who get injuries from them....plus you have a lot of people who really aren't runners at all using minimalist shoes and they go run long distance once a week or something and their body just can't handle it.


Yes, I wanted to put a but in my response, but you did it for me.

What type of runner you are, as well as age and weight can play a large role on how easily someone will adapt.
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
RolandofGilead
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Posted: 3/30/2012 11:16:14 AM
Absolutely...I'm not much of a runner (compared to you more serious guys), and at 5'9" 175-80 I'm not built like one...long distance in minimalist shoes would fuck me up. 2-3 miles or less though and I'm GTG.

You really need to know your body and its capabilities and limitations before stepping off in minimalist shoes.
If your problem can't be fixed with squats or fish oil, you are probably going to die.
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Posted: 3/30/2012 11:39:56 AM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



And this is one reason IMO that there are so many people who get injuries from them....plus you have a lot of people who really aren't runners at all using minimalist shoes and they go run long distance once a week or something and their body just can't handle it.


Yes, I wanted to put a but in my response, but you did it for me.

What type of runner you are, as well as age and weight can play a large role on how easily someone will adapt.


So are we in agreement that the shoe did not cause the rise in stress fracture, but more to the intensity of training?

stutzcattle
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Posted: 3/30/2012 12:39:51 PM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



And this is one reason IMO that there are so many people who get injuries from them....plus you have a lot of people who really aren't runners at all using minimalist shoes and they go run long distance once a week or something and their body just can't handle it.


Yes, I wanted to put a but in my response, but you did it for me.

What type of runner you are, as well as age and weight can play a large role on how easily someone will adapt.


So are we in agreement that the shoe did not cause the rise in stress fracture, but more to the intensity of training?



The increase in fractures is likely due to people that are not all that fit buying the VFFs and using them as a motivator to go and workout. They overdo it and then they're injured. They blame the shoes alone when the truth is that they were not ready to take these shoes to that level of exercise.
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smithc6
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Posted: 3/30/2012 4:12:40 PM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:

Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Yes sir. Stress fracture occurrences went up over 200% last year because of minimalist shoes. Theres never been a study thats taken into account long term issues. This is why it bugs me when people anoint these shoes when theyve been in them at most a little over a year. How do you know there wont be some damaging long term issues with them?


I believe if used correctly minimalist shoes will have no negative effects on me. I am using my body as designed, not pushing it to do something it isn't capable of doing.

I feel the same way about lifting belts and straps. If my body needs support equipment to lift something, then I am obviously lifting too much weight. Work on the weak links first.




With this sort of outlook, you definitely give yourself the best possible chance to succeed.


so in staying with this line of thinking...if you walked/ran/jogged your entire life with full support shoes and you switched to shoes with zero heal lift and zero support, wouldn't it stand to reason that you wouldn't be able to walk/jog/run near as far as you used too until you shore up the weak links?

If I squat my whole life with a belt and knee wraps, I can't expect to be squatting the same weight without them. I would need to start back at square one and train all of the muscles and ligaments that I have been neglecting my whole life. I think this directly correlates in a switch from full support to no support shoes. I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.



And this is one reason IMO that there are so many people who get injuries from them....plus you have a lot of people who really aren't runners at all using minimalist shoes and they go run long distance once a week or something and their body just can't handle it.


Yes, I wanted to put a but in my response, but you did it for me.

What type of runner you are, as well as age and weight can play a large role on how easily someone will adapt.


So are we in agreement that the shoe did not cause the rise in stress fracture, but more to the intensity of training?



I would say yes mostly. The person is always to blame for pushing to far, to fast. Terrain is a choice as well, and that can come into play. I cant really put any blame on an inanimate object...
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
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Posted: 3/31/2012 10:24:02 AM
i own the bikila LS shoe. I bought them the end of last year right when it started to get cold. I had one jog session and two days later I couldn't walk my calves for so sore. Yes i overdid it. and that is no ones fault but my own.


This spring so far i have jogged 3 times in them. starting out slowly and i am no where near as sore as i was last year.

My main complaint is getting my pinky toes in where they should be. when i first got them it was ridiculous as it was taking me 20 minutes to get them on. (not kidding) now i've gotten past that and its a couple tries to get them in right.

2nd complaint is the smell. I take my shoes off when i get home and don't like walking over my carpet with sweaty stinky feet. yes i know i can buy (socks) but im not spending and more money on these..

honestly, i like the idea of barefoot running.. after the fact I read about Inov-8 shoes on here and will probably stick with them for the long run.

inov––8 has the same idea with longer lasting tread and protection against glass and nails.. etc

Just my experience

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Posted: 4/2/2012 11:57:49 AM
Originally Posted By cruze5:
i own the bikila LS shoe. I bought them the end of last year right when it started to get cold. I had one jog session and two days later I couldn't walk my calves for so sore. Yes i overdid it. and that is no ones fault but my own.


This spring so far i have jogged 3 times in them. starting out slowly and i am no where near as sore as i was last year.

My main complaint is getting my pinky toes in where they should be. when i first got them it was ridiculous as it was taking me 20 minutes to get them on. (not kidding) now i've gotten past that and its a couple tries to get them in right.

2nd complaint is the smell. I take my shoes off when i get home and don't like walking over my carpet with sweaty stinky feet. yes i know i can buy (socks) but im not spending and more money on these..

honestly, i like the idea of barefoot running.. after the fact I read about Inov-8 shoes on here and will probably stick with them for the long run.

inov––8 has the same idea with longer lasting tread and protection against glass and nails.. etc

Just my experience



if you put the shoes in a plastic shopping bag in the freezer overnight it kills the smell.

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Posted: 4/2/2012 6:58:16 PM
i was thinking baking soda... .but freezing
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Posted: 4/2/2012 7:34:27 PM
Originally Posted By cruze5:
i was thinking baking soda... .but freezing


Kill bacteria, kill the smell. Right?
smithc6
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Posted: 4/2/2012 7:58:44 PM
Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Originally Posted By cruze5:
i was thinking baking soda... .but freezing


Kill bacteria, kill the smell. Right?


I cant imagine thats very good for the midsole/outsole...
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
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Posted: 4/2/2012 8:37:14 PM
Originally Posted By stewie97:
I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.


There are also folks who just don't change running form and continue to heel strike. I've seen, actually I heard them first, folks on the treadmill or track plugging along in VFFs for more than a hundred yard stride, whacking their heels down on the pavement. Ouch.

The VFF web page has the appropriate disclaimers, but some advocates (and I'd have to assume some sales associates) of VFFs claim that the shoe "forces" you to run with "better form". It doesn't; not necessarily.

So, VFFs don't "cause injury" like guns don't kill people, but just like some guns are safer than others for the less skilled user, so some shoes are safer than others for less "skilled" or ideal form runners.

smithc6
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Posted: 4/2/2012 8:40:26 PM
Originally Posted By H46Driver:
Originally Posted By stewie97:
I don't think the shoes can be blamed for the rise in stress fractures, the blame should be placed on people going to fast/hard too soon.


There are also folks who just don't change running form and continue to heel strike. I've seen, actually I heard them first, folks on the treadmill or track plugging along in VFFs for more than a hundred yard stride, whacking their heels down on the pavement. Ouch.

The VFF web page has the appropriate disclaimers, but some advocates (and I'd have to assume some sales associates) of VFFs claim that the shoe "forces" you to run with "better form". It doesn't; not necessarily.

So, VFFs don't "cause injury" like guns don't kill people, but just like some guns are safer than others for the less skilled user, so some shoes are safer than others for less "skilled" or ideal form runners.



Yup,

If anything its the extreme advocates that blindly recommend that shoe with no advice on how to adjust anything that should be getting sued.
"F that guy. F his apathetic old man. F everything he holds dear until it's bleeding from the ass and crying into a pillow." ~Evil_ATF on JustinWB
stutzcattle
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Posted: 4/2/2012 8:53:50 PM
Originally Posted By smithc6:
Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Originally Posted By cruze5:
i was thinking baking soda... .but freezing


Kill bacteria, kill the smell. Right?


I cant imagine thats very good for the midsole/outsole...


Or for drying them out.
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stewie97
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Posted: 4/3/2012 10:48:50 AM
Originally Posted By Hoplophile:
Originally Posted By cruze5:
i was thinking baking soda... .but freezing


Kill bacteria, kill the smell. Right?


correct, zero issues with doing this with the three pairs i have owned.

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Posted: 4/5/2012 10:53:34 AM
Going to exchange mine today, Trek Sport's strap broke yesterday and two of the grip "crosses" have broken off within the month. I thought Its just wear and tear because a normal shoe wears down like that as well but apparently vibram's aren't supposed to, spoke with the company this morning and they said its an instant 90 days guarantee. Still hands down the most comfortable pair of shoes I have owned. I tried to put my old hi top sneakers on and it just didn't feel right.
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