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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:33:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RolandofGilead]
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
Low bar is better for strength/general fitness because you can use more weight and you use more muscles. Oly lifters like high bar because it supposedly has greater carryover to Oly lifts. I'm not sure I agree though. Low bar for strength and front squats for Oly "form" makes sense to me. But the only snatch I've ever done is my wife's. Hey-o! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
I can't see where the bar is...low bar or high bar? Nvm. I can see that's high bar. Yes you are gay. Stop squatting high bar. What's the benefit of low over high? Low bar is better for strength/general fitness because you can use more weight and you use more muscles. Oly lifters like high bar because it supposedly has greater carryover to Oly lifts. I'm not sure I agree though. Low bar for strength and front squats for Oly "form" makes sense to me. But the only snatch I've ever done is my wife's. Hey-o! Stop listening to Rip about weightlifting. If you want to learn about weightlifting listen to a weightlifting coach. Not a powerlifting coach. Why would I squat with completely different form when I'm training for weightlifting? I should squat with the exact same form as a clean/front squat but put the bar on my back so I can overload it more. Why would I squat with different foot positioning? Why would I squat heavier but with less depth? Low bar can almost never reach the same depth as high bar, and if you aren't getting strong out of the hole, you may as well just not squat at all if you're training for weightlifting. That's the gayest thing I've heard since "bar padding" Shit. BTW- my high bar has always been stronger then my low bar. Hell, I bet my high bar is better than your low bar too 
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:41:45 AM EDT
[#2]
next
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:42:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: RolandofGilead]
[#3]
next again. thank God we're on a new page. Let's try to make this one a little more hetero.
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Posted: 9/7/2016 2:03:15 AM EDT
[#4]
I have a dream that one day, little low bar squatters will be able to join hands with little high bar squatters in harmony as fellow heavy weight movers
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Posted: 9/7/2016 2:04:07 AM EDT
[#5]
How many US high bar squatters were at Rio?
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Posted: 9/7/2016 4:45:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: flinch08]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
Barefoot vio or some fancy shit. I dunno. Padding on the bar. It's the least gay pad they had. Pad is gay. ETA: Sorry, ROG. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 5:52:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
I should just bounce balls at my face. <a href="http://s111.photobucket.com/user/kaik78/media/20160905_153355_zpsh0flzrnb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/kaik78/20160905_153355_zpsh0flzrnb.jpg</a> A video of my tiny calves. 
 https://youtu.be/GrpK-CfRjL0I could definitely help you with bouncing balls at your face, just need some HCG first... 
And way to grind out that last one. Good job man. I hardly got any sleep. I haven't been this wrecked from squats in a long ass time. Damn pr's!!!! |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 7:16:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
next Get off ROGs lawn. Damn kids. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 7:41:25 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
I could definitely help you with bouncing balls at your face, just need some HCG first...
And way to grind out that last one. Good job man. I hardly got any sleep. I haven't been this wrecked from squats in a long ass time. Damn pr's!!!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By KaiK:
I should just bounce balls at my face. <a href="http://s111.photobucket.com/user/kaik78/media/20160905_153355_zpsh0flzrnb.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/kaik78/20160905_153355_zpsh0flzrnb.jpg</a> A video of my tiny calves.
https://youtu.be/GrpK-CfRjL0I could definitely help you with bouncing balls at your face, just need some HCG first...
And way to grind out that last one. Good job man. I hardly got any sleep. I haven't been this wrecked from squats in a long ass time. Damn pr's!!!! Lol. Only at Planet Fitness is bouncing balls at your face normal. Good job!!! |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 8:34:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead: Jesus squats high bar and you like balls. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 8:53:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Alright, so I think I got it.
Squat low bar unless you do high, and do the other stuff unless you don't want to, or it's not necessary. Thanks! 
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Posted: 9/7/2016 8:59:37 AM EDT
[#12]
So much animosity about high vs low bar. All squatting sucks. We should just give up on squatting entirely.
Or just do what works best for you/meets your goals.
I think high bar is more elegant/for form nazis. Low bar is for power. Not to say you can't get power out of high bar. Low bar is different for different people. My shoulder mobility is pretty shitty right now, so my low bar isn't all that low. It is low enough to involve more back, but not all that low. I typically train more high bar-ish to keep the focus on the legs. Yesterday's squat session transitioned from high to low bar as the weight started piling on. Did I mention I smoked 475x2 yet? We weren't really even planning on going that high, we just knew we wanted to work past 365 where we have been doing most of our work(high bar). But anyway, my last squat PR was 455x1 a few months ago and I switched to sub maximal training for it to build up the foundation while I focused on bench press. So training high bar, fairly low intensity increased my squat PR by 20 lbs for 2 reps, after I had already PRd 455x2. If time permitted, 5 plates would have gone smoothly as well. We just needed to get some other work in and my wife was pushing me to get the meat on the grill for dinner.
I think high bar is less taxing on the CNS and easier to recover from. Giving you more to put towards deadlifts, which are heavily taxing on both the CNS and recovery. I also PRd this weekend by pulling some doubles at 500(yeah I used the flippin 2.5lb change plates, so what?) and a 545. My total has gone up over 115lbs this summer by training smart and focusing on goals/recovery/nutrition including 2 weeks completely off from lifting and probably 2-3 more weeks with minimal training. The point of this is to train to your goals. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 9:17:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Other than more dead lifts, what's the best way to increase my deads?
I currently dead 250ish as a pr. I want 3 plates by 12-31 |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colt_thompson:
Other than more dead lifts, what's the best way to increase my deads? I currently dead 250ish as a pr. I want 3 plates by 12-31 Squatting and then some dedicated back/trap work. I like kroc rows a lot for building lats and grip strength. Focus on form. I think 3 plates is pretty obtainable for most people without a crazy amount of work as long as you are consistent and eating right(can't stress this enough). Are you on a program right now? |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 9:35:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: LawyerUp]
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
So much animosity about high vs low bar. All squatting sucks. We should just give up on squatting entirely. Or just do what works best for you/meets your goals.
I think high bar is more elegant/for form nazis. Low bar is for power. Not to say you can't get power out of high bar. Low bar is different for different people. My shoulder mobility is pretty shitty right now, so my low bar isn't all that low. It is low enough to involve more back, but not all that low. I typically train more high bar-ish to keep the focus on the legs. Yesterday's squat session transitioned from high to low bar as the weight started piling on. Did I mention I smoked 475x2 yet? We weren't really even planning on going that high, we just knew we wanted to work past 365 where we have been doing most of our work(high bar). But anyway, my last squat PR was 455x1 a few months ago and I switched to sub maximal training for it to build up the foundation while I focused on bench press. So training high bar, fairly low intensity increased my squat PR by 20 lbs for 2 reps, after I had already PRd 455x2. If time permitted, 5 plates would have gone smoothly as well. We just needed to get some other work in and my wife was pushing me to get the meat on the grill for dinner.
I think high bar is less taxing on the CNS and easier to recover from. Giving you more to put towards deadlifts, which are heavily taxing on both the CNS and recovery. I also PRd this weekend by pulling some doubles at 500(yeah I used the flippin 2.5lb change plates, so what?) and a 545. My total has gone up over 115lbs this summer by training smart and focusing on goals/recovery/nutrition including 2 weeks completely off from lifting and probably 2-3 more weeks with minimal training. The point of this is to train to your goals. I think I overdid it a little this summer. Trained too hard for my august strongman. I've felt better the past few weeks taking it a little easy. As a result, I felt pretty strong today. Did 10x3 DL. 315/335/365/385/405/425/455/475/405/365. 475 felt good, and I probably could have ended with 500, but I knew what I had to do right afterwards. Me and my training partner tested out a workout for this weekend's Raider Project charity event. It was a pretty sweet outside workout. With a partner, 3 Rounds: 400 meter sandbag carry at 80#; one partner carries at a time 6 tire flips 800# 200 meter fireman carry (i.e., partner on your back; we both weigh 240 or so) 50 yards atlas stone throws at 100# Took us about 22:00. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 10:24:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
How many US high bar squatters were at Rio? A couple. You think the rest of them squat low bar? Comon man. The number of weightlifters that regularly low bar squat is small enough to be meaningless, no matter where they are from. All joking aside, I don't have an issue with low bar. I see a lot of people fail to hit depth with it though. Body geometry plays a role in which you will prefer as well, and like always goals should dictate. If you're a weightlifter you should not be low bar squatting as part of your regular program. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 10:24:41 AM EDT
[#17]
I'm on 5/3/1 with boring but big assistance workouts
I eat all the food. Never lifted before this year I'm over 40 and figured it was time 
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Posted: 9/7/2016 10:29:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colt_thompson:
Other than more dead lifts, what's the best way to increase my deads? I currently dead 250ish as a pr. I want 3 plates by 12-31 I do pulups and rows. The squats and cleans I do probably help too. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 10:34:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: AnvilUSMC]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By colt_thompson:
I'm on 5/3/1 with boring but big assistance workouts I eat all the food. Never lifted before this year I'm over 40 and figured it was time How much longer on that program until it projects you at 315? You may want to consider dropping the BBB portion if your goal is all strength right now. Focus on recovery and nailing all your lifts. Hitting an extra 200 reps a week is a lot of work/recovery to build size. It may not be too much for you. You really aren't that far off from 3 plates and might already be there if you did a dedicated 1rm day(depending on how you found 250 anyway). |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:16:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
A couple. You think the rest of them squat low bar? Comon man. The number of weightlifters that regularly low bar squat is small enough to be meaningless, no matter where they are from. All joking aside, I don't have an issue with low bar. I see a lot of people fail to hit depth with it though. Body geometry plays a role in which you will prefer as well, and like always goals should dictate. If you're a weightlifter you should not be low bar squatting as part of your regular program. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
How many US high bar squatters were at Rio? A couple. You think the rest of them squat low bar? Comon man. The number of weightlifters that regularly low bar squat is small enough to be meaningless, no matter where they are from. All joking aside, I don't have an issue with low bar. I see a lot of people fail to hit depth with it though. Body geometry plays a role in which you will prefer as well, and like always goals should dictate. If you're a weightlifter you should not be low bar squatting as part of your regular program. I just couldn't resist kicking the hornet nest.
I did not mean to suggest that all oly lifters should low bar...merely novices. This is due to the fact that the training stimulus results in greater strength gains with greater carryover to the deadlift and front squats. In other words, it should enable you to add weight to your oly lifts more quickly at first. These benefits rapidly diminish as one enters the intermediate stages. Hell, maybe even late novice. I readily admit I'm speculating. This will never be studied enough to answer one way or the other. And either camp "knows they are right!" Either way, I'm not sure the HB vs LB choice is that big of a deal for a novice. At the end of the day, it's much more important to squat. And btw, I'm obviously a huge Starting Strength fan, but rip jumped the shark when he started hanging out with Yeager.
I think we should discuss that instead. I mean, WTF?! |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:20:04 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
... And btw, I'm obviously a huge Starting Strength fan, but rip jumped the shark when he started hanging out with Yeager.
I think we should discuss that instead. I mean, WTF?! Ditch diving is an explosive movement. Huge carry over. Makes sense. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:20:08 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
How much longer on that program until it projects you at 315? You may want to consider dropping the BBB portion if your goal is all strength right now. Focus on recovery and nailing all your lifts. Hitting an extra 200 reps a week is a lot of work/recovery to build size. It may not be too much for you. You really aren't that far off from 3 plates and might already be there if you did a dedicated 1rm day(depending on how you found 250 anyway). Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By colt_thompson:
I'm on 5/3/1 with boring but big assistance workouts I eat all the food. Never lifted before this year I'm over 40 and figured it was time How much longer on that program until it projects you at 315? You may want to consider dropping the BBB portion if your goal is all strength right now. Focus on recovery and nailing all your lifts. Hitting an extra 200 reps a week is a lot of work/recovery to build size. It may not be too much for you. You really aren't that far off from 3 plates and might already be there if you did a dedicated 1rm day(depending on how you found 250 anyway). I haven't looked ahead to see when the program gets me there. I like to set short term goals to focus on. Keeps me motivated. The 250 number was a legit pull by me. It was 4 plates plus some smalls. I don't recall what the smalls were, I was happy to be over 4 plates. I don't mind the BBB with 5/3/1. I squat Monday, press Tuesday, rest W, bench Thursday,dead Friday,rest weekends |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:37:36 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
I just couldn't resist kicking the hornet nest.
I did not mean to suggest that all oly lifters should low bar...merely novices. This is due to the fact that the training stimulus results in greater strength gains with greater carryover to the deadlift and front squats. In other words, it should enable you to add weight to your oly lifts more quickly at first. These benefits rapidly diminish as one enters the intermediate stages. Hell, maybe even late novice. I readily admit I'm speculating. This will never be studied enough to answer one way or the other. And either camp "knows they are right!" Either way, I'm not sure the HB vs LB choice is that big of a deal for a novice. At the end of the day, it's much more important to squat. And btw, I'm obviously a huge Starting Strength fan, but rip jumped the shark when he started hanging out with Yeager.
I think we should discuss that instead. I mean, WTF?! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
How many US high bar squatters were at Rio? A couple. You think the rest of them squat low bar? Comon man. The number of weightlifters that regularly low bar squat is small enough to be meaningless, no matter where they are from. All joking aside, I don't have an issue with low bar. I see a lot of people fail to hit depth with it though. Body geometry plays a role in which you will prefer as well, and like always goals should dictate. If you're a weightlifter you should not be low bar squatting as part of your regular program. I just couldn't resist kicking the hornet nest.
I did not mean to suggest that all oly lifters should low bar...merely novices. This is due to the fact that the training stimulus results in greater strength gains with greater carryover to the deadlift and front squats. In other words, it should enable you to add weight to your oly lifts more quickly at first. These benefits rapidly diminish as one enters the intermediate stages. Hell, maybe even late novice. I readily admit I'm speculating. This will never be studied enough to answer one way or the other. And either camp "knows they are right!" Either way, I'm not sure the HB vs LB choice is that big of a deal for a novice. At the end of the day, it's much more important to squat. And btw, I'm obviously a huge Starting Strength fan, but rip jumped the shark when he started hanging out with Yeager.
I think we should discuss that instead. I mean, WTF?! The problem is the muscle engagement is pretty different- and the ROM even more so. You might build some great strength from parallel and above, but that does NOT translate to weightlifting very well. What about your strength out of the hole? You don't build that with low bar. Some people might build strength faster with low bar, but again, it doesn't translate well to weightlifting. Neither does the almost good morning-esque form of low bar. Yes there are two camps and both think they're right. The funny thing is it's the powerlifters telling weightlifters how they should be training, and weightlifting saying "do whatever you need to for YOUR sport, and let us train how we need to train" 
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:53:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
The problem is the muscle engagement is pretty different- and the ROM even more so. You might build some great strength from parallel and above, but that does NOT translate to weightlifting very well. What about your strength out of the hole? You don't build that with low bar. Some people might build strength faster with low bar, but again, it doesn't translate well to weightlifting. Neither does the almost good morning-esque form of low bar. Yes there are two camps and both think they're right. The funny thing is it's the powerlifters telling weightlifters how they should be training, and weightlifting saying "do whatever you need to for YOUR sport, and let us train how we need to train" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySRWjqctokQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By frayedknot:
How many US high bar squatters were at Rio? A couple. You think the rest of them squat low bar? Comon man. The number of weightlifters that regularly low bar squat is small enough to be meaningless, no matter where they are from. All joking aside, I don't have an issue with low bar. I see a lot of people fail to hit depth with it though. Body geometry plays a role in which you will prefer as well, and like always goals should dictate. If you're a weightlifter you should not be low bar squatting as part of your regular program. I just couldn't resist kicking the hornet nest.
I did not mean to suggest that all oly lifters should low bar...merely novices. This is due to the fact that the training stimulus results in greater strength gains with greater carryover to the deadlift and front squats. In other words, it should enable you to add weight to your oly lifts more quickly at first. These benefits rapidly diminish as one enters the intermediate stages. Hell, maybe even late novice. I readily admit I'm speculating. This will never be studied enough to answer one way or the other. And either camp "knows they are right!" Either way, I'm not sure the HB vs LB choice is that big of a deal for a novice. At the end of the day, it's much more important to squat. And btw, I'm obviously a huge Starting Strength fan, but rip jumped the shark when he started hanging out with Yeager.
I think we should discuss that instead. I mean, WTF?! The problem is the muscle engagement is pretty different- and the ROM even more so. You might build some great strength from parallel and above, but that does NOT translate to weightlifting very well. What about your strength out of the hole? You don't build that with low bar. Some people might build strength faster with low bar, but again, it doesn't translate well to weightlifting. Neither does the almost good morning-esque form of low bar. Yes there are two camps and both think they're right. The funny thing is it's the powerlifters telling weightlifters how they should be training, and weightlifting saying "do whatever you need to for YOUR sport, and let us train how we need to train" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qySRWjqctokThe weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:54:03 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryI'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:04:06 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
The weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:06:30 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw Some people like to look up. Ask yourself this: does it make sense to crank your neck and look at the sky or to have a neutral spine? Answer that question and train accordingly. Yes, DL and low bar are in some ways similar. They aren't the same though. Bottom line: -If you are a weightlifter high bar. Period. -If you are a powerlifter low bar, unless you can lift more high bar. -If you are neither, then do the one you prefer. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:17:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
The weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. I was thinking the same thing so I went back to the beginning of the video and he is doing the same thing. Even though they are zoomed in on his torso, as he gets towards the top you can see the all the leg movement. Albeit, it is still a heavy lift for his body weight. It is just still not good. Having some form break down is inevitable as you get close to your 1rm. But your form should be perfect(for you) at 66%. His wasn't. Just my observation though. I know when I have people lifting in my garage and they display issues like that I tell them to knock it off and we go lighter to square them away. Like Mikhail Koklyaev said in his seminar at SuperTraining "We have only one health." Speaking of which, that is a great series of videos to watch, youtube search "Russian Strength Seminar - supertraining" it is a 4 part series with Misha and Boris Sheiko. Good stuff. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:24:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Squatting and then some dedicated back/trap work. I like kroc rows a lot for building lats and grip strength. Focus on form. I think 3 plates is pretty obtainable for most people without a crazy amount of work as long as you are consistent and eating right(can't stress this enough). Are you on a program right now? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By colt_thompson:
Other than more dead lifts, what's the best way to increase my deads? I currently dead 250ish as a pr. I want 3 plates by 12-31 Squatting and then some dedicated back/trap work. I like kroc rows a lot for building lats and grip strength. Focus on form. I think 3 plates is pretty obtainable for most people without a crazy amount of work as long as you are consistent and eating right(can't stress this enough). Are you on a program right now? Add GHR or/and good mornings. Eat more. Lift heavy. 315# isn't much weight, and should be easily attainable. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:28:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
I was thinking the same thing so I went back to the beginning of the video and he is doing the same thing. Even though they are zoomed in on his torso, as he gets towards the top you can see the all the leg movement. Albeit, it is still a heavy lift for his body weight. It is just still not good. Having some form break down is inevitable as you get close to your 1rm. But your form should be perfect(for you) at 66%. His wasn't. Just my observation though. I know when I have people lifting in my garage and they display issues like that I tell them to knock it off and we go lighter to square them away. Like Mikhail Koklyaev said in his seminar at SuperTraining "We have only one health." Speaking of which, that is a great series of videos to watch, youtube search "Russian Strength Seminar - supertraining" it is a 4 part series with Misha and Boris Sheiko. Good stuff. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
The weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. I was thinking the same thing so I went back to the beginning of the video and he is doing the same thing. Even though they are zoomed in on his torso, as he gets towards the top you can see the all the leg movement. Albeit, it is still a heavy lift for his body weight. It is just still not good. Having some form break down is inevitable as you get close to your 1rm. But your form should be perfect(for you) at 66%. His wasn't. Just my observation though. I know when I have people lifting in my garage and they display issues like that I tell them to knock it off and we go lighter to square them away. Like Mikhail Koklyaev said in his seminar at SuperTraining "We have only one health." Speaking of which, that is a great series of videos to watch, youtube search "Russian Strength Seminar - supertraining" it is a 4 part series with Misha and Boris Sheiko. Good stuff. Typically I'd agree, but it seems that he's not having any issues.... |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 12:36:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AnvilUSMC]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Typically I'd agree, but it seems that he's not having any issues.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
The weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. I was thinking the same thing so I went back to the beginning of the video and he is doing the same thing. Even though they are zoomed in on his torso, as he gets towards the top you can see the all the leg movement. Albeit, it is still a heavy lift for his body weight. It is just still not good. Having some form break down is inevitable as you get close to your 1rm. But your form should be perfect(for you) at 66%. His wasn't. Just my observation though. I know when I have people lifting in my garage and they display issues like that I tell them to knock it off and we go lighter to square them away. Like Mikhail Koklyaev said in his seminar at SuperTraining "We have only one health." Speaking of which, that is a great series of videos to watch, youtube search "Russian Strength Seminar - supertraining" it is a 4 part series with Misha and Boris Sheiko. Good stuff. Typically I'd agree, but it seems that he's not having any issues.... Yet. Knee caving leads to problems though. Even if it isn't an issue today, you are opening yourself up to injury. I am anal about form and preventing injuries as much as possible. He may never have problems. I just wouldn't bet on it. And why risk it for a fixable issue? Edit: The guy in blue, Romano the powerlifter who trained with weightlifters, his form is what I would say is good when he got heavy. His knees would start to dip in but he kept them out. He was also wearing wraps and protecting himself. Safety first, then teamwork.
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Posted: 9/7/2016 1:28:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RolandofGilead]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Yet. Knee caving leads to problems though. Even if it isn't an issue today, you are opening yourself up to injury. I am anal about form and preventing injuries as much as possible. He may never have problems. I just wouldn't bet on it. And why risk it for a fixable issue? Edit: The guy in blue, Romano the powerlifter who trained with weightlifters, his form is what I would say is good when he got heavy. His knees would start to dip in but he kept them out. He was also wearing wraps and protecting himself. Safety first, then teamwork. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
The weightlifter, the small guy, is going to tear his knees apart hard. Great example of just because you can move the weight doesn't mean you should. He needs serious form work or he'll be in a wheel chair saying "squats are bad for your knees." Dude is moving 3x his bodyweight lol. His knees collapse some, but he's alright I'd wager. You don't get strong enough to move 3x BW and have weak knees. There's a difference between bad form (which he doesn't have) and an ugly lift that is +- your 1RM. I was thinking the same thing so I went back to the beginning of the video and he is doing the same thing. Even though they are zoomed in on his torso, as he gets towards the top you can see the all the leg movement. Albeit, it is still a heavy lift for his body weight. It is just still not good. Having some form break down is inevitable as you get close to your 1rm. But your form should be perfect(for you) at 66%. His wasn't. Just my observation though. I know when I have people lifting in my garage and they display issues like that I tell them to knock it off and we go lighter to square them away. Like Mikhail Koklyaev said in his seminar at SuperTraining "We have only one health." Speaking of which, that is a great series of videos to watch, youtube search "Russian Strength Seminar - supertraining" it is a 4 part series with Misha and Boris Sheiko. Good stuff. Typically I'd agree, but it seems that he's not having any issues.... Yet. Knee caving leads to problems though. Even if it isn't an issue today, you are opening yourself up to injury. I am anal about form and preventing injuries as much as possible. He may never have problems. I just wouldn't bet on it. And why risk it for a fixable issue? Edit: The guy in blue, Romano the powerlifter who trained with weightlifters, his form is what I would say is good when he got heavy. His knees would start to dip in but he kept them out. He was also wearing wraps and protecting himself. Safety first, then teamwork. Why? Because he's a competitive WLer. Would I? You? The average guy? No, not worth it. Not sure why he caves, but I'm sure he knows it as well as his coach. ETA- wraps don't make you safer, they help you lift more 
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Posted: 9/7/2016 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#33]
So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this:
http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok   SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 1:59:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By therex:
So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this: http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/rogue_header_2015/844x532/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/s/h/shoulderok-h.jpg http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shoulderok-web2.jpg SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? I have a better idea. Post that first photo in GD and ask GD what it is. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 2:03:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By therex:
So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this: http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/rogue_header_2015/844x532/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/s/h/shoulderok-h.jpg http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shoulderok-web2.jpg SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? I haven't tried it yet. But would like to add it to the stable. Seems awesome. Have you tried rolling out your shoulders with lacrosse balls and such? |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 2:11:26 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LawyerUp: I have a better idea. Post that first photo in GD and ask GD what it is. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LawyerUp: Originally Posted By therex: So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this: http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/rogue_header_2015/844x532/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/s/h/shoulderok-h.jpg http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shoulderok-web2.jpg SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? I have a better idea. Post that first photo in GD and ask GD what it is. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 2:16:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AnvilUSMC: I haven't tried it yet. But would like to add it to the stable. Seems awesome. Have you tried rolling out your shoulders with lacrosse balls and such? And yes, all the time. I've noticed improvement from weighted IYT, so I feel like this might be a good route... |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 3:58:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By therex:
So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this: http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/rogue_header_2015/844x532/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/s/h/shoulderok-h.jpg http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shoulderok-web2.jpg SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? Looks good for stretching. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 4:00:52 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 4:14:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By KaiK:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. There's a really interesting test that I found on a video- I'll try to find it. for the test they had a big dude stand with his arm out as rigidly as he could hold it and the demonstrator tried to bend the arm at the elbow (one arm across big dudes bicep and one under the forearm to 'break' the arm). then he had the guy relax (couldn't break it), and when he tried again the big guy simply lifted his chin. As some point the arm suddenly broke, essentially shutting off the strength to the arm as the chin went up. The point was that the body knows when it has an exposed weakness, as your chin lifts you're exposed and the body generates less output as a self-defense mechanism. He then went on to show the same thing with pain. Had the guy try to hold the same arm out, then simply grabbed his thumb and squeezed the knuckle to make it hurt. The arm was far less strong simply from the reaction to the pain (pain was not done during the pressure on the arm, they paused, pinched his thumb then tried again). After a few minutes the arm was at full strength again. In short- If the body is in a position of weakness or imbalance (which is why you don't lift in running shoes) or even pain, it will effect the force production significantly. Don't lift the chin too high, a good rule of thumb is to keep a tennis ball under the chin so you know you're not looking down (cutting off breathing, making life hard and decreasing force production) and don't lift the chin too high that you, again, shut down force production. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 4:21:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By therex:
So hey, instead of talking about ballgazing some german dude while he squats, can we talk about this: http://www.roguefitness.com/kabuki-strength-shoulderok http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/rogue_header_2015/844x532/472321edac810f9b2465a359d8cdc0b5/s/h/shoulderok-h.jpg http://www.roguefitness.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/s/h/shoulderok-web2.jpg SO like, my shoulders, especially my left shoulder, sucks butt. It keeps my lifts down, bugs me with pain, sometimes even to the point of not being able to sleep, although it gets better. Nothing is torn, so the dr. says, just some impingement and I've been doing IYT every day which has helped a lot but from what little research I have done, indian mace (dot, not feather) work might help with rehab, and certainly nowhere have I read "god this thing sucks it gave my shoulder herpes". Problem is...it's 185 bucks for a bar that's been cut in half. So I have four options, I think: 1: Pay $185 bucks for this thing. 2: Find a busted barebell, cut half of it off. 3: Buy an Onnit steel mace 4: Maybe buy a lightweight sledge? I mean from everything I read, 10# is decently big, and I'm trying to use it for rehab and injury prevention, not really for like, getting yuuuuge. Anyone have thoughts? Buy a handful of sledgehammers, starting at 8lbs and work up. A decent sledgehammer is about $30 at Lowe's or Home Depot. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 4:33:33 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hank: Buy a handful of sledgehammers, starting at 8lbs and work up. A decent sledgehammer is about $30 at Lowe's or Home Depot. But the Onnit maces aren't much more expensive than a sledgehammer, and significantly (a good 6") longer. |
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CT, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2016 5:22:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flinch08:
Add GHR or/and good mornings. Eat more. Lift heavy. 315# isn't much weight, and should be easily attainable. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By flinch08:
Originally Posted By AnvilUSMC:
Originally Posted By colt_thompson:
Other than more dead lifts, what's the best way to increase my deads? I currently dead 250ish as a pr. I want 3 plates by 12-31 Squatting and then some dedicated back/trap work. I like kroc rows a lot for building lats and grip strength. Focus on form. I think 3 plates is pretty obtainable for most people without a crazy amount of work as long as you are consistent and eating right(can't stress this enough). Are you on a program right now? Add GHR or/and good mornings. Eat more. Lift heavy. 315# isn't much weight, and should be easily attainable. all of this. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 6:09:08 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By KaiK:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. I didn't say it was right. I just know why he was doing it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 8:33:53 PM EDT
[#46]
Did some cleans with new bar. My form is still awful. I think I am getting better off the ground. Still not fully extending. My speed under the bar sucks and I still like to jump back for some reason.
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:03:09 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
I didn't say it was right. I just know why he was doing it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
Originally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Originally Posted By KaiK:
Originally Posted By bcauz3y:
I'm so confused. That second guy is looking up. It's like there are ten ways of doing everything, just on this one exercise. FUUUUUUUU This guy says low squat is the same shit as DL, so do high. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeqEWLvtZJw The little guy is looking up because he is a weightlifter. Used to driving up his chest for front rack. Don't look up. Most weightlifters are taught neutral gaze as well actually. I didn't say it was right. I just know why he was doing it. Ok...but he's not doing it because he's a weightlifter, because most are taught not to do it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:05:46 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KaiK:
Did some cleans with new bar. My form is still awful. I think I am getting better off the ground. Still not fully extending. My speed under the bar sucks and I still like to jump back for some reason. https://youtu.be/WrCHSXTMH1kYou know, your clean isn't half bad really. The jerk needs some serious serious work though. Footwork is rough. Watch some vids and check out their footwork. |
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Posted: 9/7/2016 11:15:42 PM EDT
[#49]
There's this "master trainer" at my gym that has the biggest hard on for making people balance on shit. Bosu ball deadlifts, squatting on TWO bosu balls, push-ups on bumper plates and tennis balls; all of these I saw him make people do today. I wonder if he's ever seriously injured someone. It's only a matter of time.
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Posted: 9/8/2016 7:06:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: KaiK]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RolandofGilead:
Ok...but he's not doing it because he's a weightlifter, because most are taught not to do it. Na uh! The Russians love looking up.
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