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Posted: 8/9/2017 5:33:48 AM EDT
I'm in the process of building an AR in 6.5 Grendel.  I already have one in .264LBC with an 18" barrel that is wearing a Vortex Viper HS LR 4-16x44 Dead Hold BDC in a LaRue SPR LT104 10 MOA mount.  This rifle is going to my sister so that she and I will be able to both shoot 6.5 Grendel.  It also means I'm starting from scratch and having to make decisions that drove me nuts with rifle I'm giving her.  

The new rifle will have a 20" Faxon barrel which should shoot a fair bit better than my 18" Liberty barreled AR.  I know that I will be using a LaRue MBT trigger as well as a LaRue scope mount (this time I'm going with a 20 MOA).  Initially I got my 18" barrel AR for hunting and shooting targets at long range for fun but a lack of access to hunting areas means it's been used only at the range.  This new gun is the same thing, hopefully someday for hunting, but realistically most of it's time will be spent at the range.

I'm not a long distance shooter by any means and I'm just getting into it for fun.  I have physical limitations due to a bad back so all my range shooting is done at the bench.  I've only just gotten access to a long distance range so I've not tested my 18" rifle past a few hundred yards.  I believe the furthest distance on their long range is currently 600 yards but I believe they are planning to stretch it out to 1000 yards.  

When I bought the Vortex Viper HS LR 4-16x44 BDC everyone told me that it was plenty of scope for shooting out to 600 yards and it probably is but my vision isn't getting any better and after shooting 200 yards with it I can't imagine being able to see the target well enough at 600 yards, let alone further than that.  The scope itself is great but I just don't see how I could shoot worth a darn at longer distance with it.  Not having any experience or training shooting long distance probably has a great deal to do with it but my vision is definitely causing me problems also.  Since I'm building this new rifle I figure this is the time to make a change and give my sister that scope and mount with the rifle.  I'm pretty sure I want to increase my magnification to aid with my aging vision but I'm also considering switching from the second focal plane scopes I've shot my entire life to a first focal plane.

Currently I have a Savage 116 FCSS .30-06 with a Nikon Monarch 2.5-10x42 BDC and Nikon Prostaff BDC reticle scopes on a couple of my .22LR rifles as well as the Vortex Viper BDC scope on my .264LBC that I'm giving to my sister.  I actually like the BDC reticles because despite my guns doing most of their shooting at the range the BDC reticles are pretty handy for hunting.  The thing I dislike though is being forced to max out my magnification to make the reticle read correctly.  Not a big deal on relatively low power rimfire scopes but on my .30-06 I'd like to be able to shoot at the lower magnifications where it's not so shaky shooting unsupported.  I like the ability to increase magnification without increasing the reticle size along with it.  I understand that the down side of that is when on low power the reticle on a FFP scope may be hard to see which is a valid issue but it's better than having a huge reticle potentially blocking part of your target at max magnification with a second focal plane scope.  I have a Leupold VX-R Hog 1.25-4x20 with the FireDot "Pig-Plex" reticle on my .50 Beowulf. It's a seriously fantastic optic for big bore AR's used for hunting and inside 100-125 yards there are no problems.  However, stretching it out to 200 yards at 4X the center of the reticle covers my entire 12" "Shoot-N-C" targets at the range.  All I can do is center it as well as I can and hope I hit near the center of the target.  I love the scope but that makes me crazy.  With the new ARX ammunition the .50 Beowulf is good out to 300 yards but with my reticle I couldn't see a hog or a deer or even moose at that range.  Granted that normal scopes don't have reticles with that wide of lines but you get the picture.

It seems to me that a first focal plane scope with a BDC reticle would be perfect for my use but so far as I can find the only people that make one are Nikon and it's a 3-9 which definitely won't work for me.  A first focal plane BDC reticle seems like it's not going to happen any time soon so I need to figure out where to go from here.  The thought of learning how to shoot long distance (out to 600, eventually further) using the MOA and Mildot reticles I've seen while researching scopes makes my head spin.  I have to take pain medication 24/7 just so I can get around and have for the last many years which doesn't make me all goofy or anything but it wreaks havoc on my memory and ability to do even basic math without a lot of effort.  Looking at the reticles I've seen so far looks impossible to understand, which is a lot of the reason why I've been using BDC reticles the last many years.  

I currently have scopes from Nikon, Vortex, Leupold and Trijicon and I trust any of those brands although I won't be affording any more Trijicon's (yikes).  I'm not sure I'm comfortable straying out of those brand names but you guys are the experts so I'm open to any advice you have.  As far as budget goes.....it's not great.  I think I paid around $600 (used) for my Vortex although they've dropped in price considerably over the last few years, so I'd like to stay below that same $600.  If worse comes to worst I could probably sell a kidney or something and squeeze a bit more into the budget but this build is already costing me way more than I anticipated.  To be honest, I had planned to sell my .264LBC AR to help fund the project but ever since I got my sister into shooting she's really come to love it and I know she really wanted a Grendel so I gave it to her.  That cut a big chunk out of my budget but, as they say, it's better to give to receive and as bad as I needed that money (I'm disabled with no income), giving the gun to her felt much better than getting money for it would have.

I apologize for the long winded post and if it's a bit hard to follow, the meds make it hard for me to concentrate.  Anywho, I think I want to go to a FFP scope, definitely with higher magnification than 16X but I'm more than a little scared of those complex looking reticles that they all seem to have.  What do you guys recommend (for those who didn't fall asleep reading this and didn't give up half way through lol)?
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 6:01:10 AM EDT
[#1]
Nikon has first focal plane scopes that would fix the bdc issue you speak of.
Link Posted: 8/9/2017 12:33:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Burris Veracity is FFP BDC but you would be better off with a Mil-Based Reticle.
Link Posted: 8/10/2017 9:22:18 AM EDT
[#3]
I would avoid a BDC reticle, go with a mil or moa hash mark reticle. The substention are generally finer and more numerous so they are actually better for using as a BDC if you choose .

 If you want over 16x mag with FFP and actually works like it should for $600,  I think you may need to look for something used.




On a side note, I don't really understand the poor vision requiring  more magnification. I am lucky so far I suppose so pardon my ignorance.

If you have the ocular focused for your eye to see the reticle clearly, the parallax properly focused on the target putting the target on the same focal plane as the reticle basically  about 8" from your eye, how is it any different than someone with good vision?

Aren't the adjustments on the scope along with your corrective lens making everything "even"?
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 11:53:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RFutch:
Burris Veracity is FFP BDC but you would be better off with a Mil-Based Reticle.
View Quote
I think so too, just seems intimidating looking at the reticles and reading about using them.  Probably easier than it seems but it looks pretty complex for a beginner.  I think I just need to literally "step in it".
Link Posted: 8/12/2017 11:59:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
I would avoid a BDC reticle, go with a mil or moa hash mark reticle. The substention are generally finer and more numerous so they are actually better for using as a BDC if you choose .

 If you want over 16x mag with FFP and actually works like it should for $600,  I think you may need to look for something used.




On a side note, I don't really understand the poor vision requiring  more magnification. I am lucky so far I suppose so pardon my ignorance.

If you have the ocular focused for your eye to see the reticle clearly, the parallax properly focused on the target putting the target on the same focal plane as the reticle basically  about 8" from your eye, how is it any different than someone with good vision?

Aren't the adjustments on the scope along with your corrective lens making everything "even"?
View Quote
Not sure I can explain it.  I know I need new glasses to correct my current vision but it's more than that.  All I know is, even with correction, my eyes don't work anywhere near as well as they used to.  I never wore glasses until I turned 40 and it's been down hill from there.
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