In this day and age, is it foolish to think I might get a scope cheaper in person in Europe? I am heading to Europe in August and was thinking I might find a deal on a Steiner or Zeiss. Not sure of import laws either. Thanks.

I'm wondering the same thing. I have business partners in Germany that could send me stuff with other shipments we send back and forth. I tried looking for retailers online with a .de but couldn't find much.

wait till august and go see.

With the fucky gun laws in Europe I bet they are hard to find and more expensive there.

Never bought a scope, but in general you can get good deals of 'stuff' where it is made. Often it depends on the strength of the respective currencies. You will pay for them in Euros, so if the dollar is strong against the euro, then it will usually be less.  VAT, their equivalent of our sales tax, is often refundable if you are returning to the States. To take advantage of it, you will need to carry your purchase through security as a carry on.  There is a good chance you will save 10-20%. You may have to pay duty on it when coming back in at customs. You mileage may vary.

Thanks for the help!

what about ITAR hoops?

With tax..............I highly doubt it.

As far as I know ITAR only matters going from the USA out not outside into the USA.

This.

If you are lucky, you can get the vendor to ship the item to your house here in the USA (insured of course).  If so, you don't have to carry an expensive bulky piece of equipment in your luggage and you won't have to go through the process to get the VAT back as it won't be charged on items shipped to the USA.  Since prices typically include the VAT, you get an instant discount!!!!  YMMV...  

While VAT is conceptually similar to sales tax, the amounts are typically a lot more than typical US sales tax even in locations where US sales tax is stupid high...

but would/might the country you're buying in have something similar? just curious. i've noticed warnings on ebay once in a while for different items...surefire lights, some scopes, etc.

I haven't seen anything I guess but I suppose it is possible.  I know that people outside the US constantly bitch (rightly so) about ITAR as we can buy their stuff but they can't buy ours.

You're paying US import duty taxes.

I recently bought some HK parts and receivers from Germany. From several online vendors.
VAT was either taken off at the time of payment, or was refunded within a day.

Shipping was about 20-50 euros. Took about 4 weeks to clear their customs or whatever.


Quite a bit cheaper than buying in the US from our most notable vendors.

While the €:$ rate is awesome these days, the high VAT (19% in Germany for instance) kinda negates the savings...

When I was stationed there in the early to mid 90s German optics cost less in country. I do not remember the brands but they have some lower end brands that you do not see over here. You could buy a scope or even an air rifle over the counter just like you do here.

Most Germans spend as much or more on a scope to what a rifle cost. The only reason I did not buy an optic in Germany was the reticles were all very think duplexs of some type. Germans are allowed to hunt at night and there optics reflect that. Remember in the 90s no one made illuminated reticles.

Additionally suppressor usage while hunting is mandatory in much of Germany and buying a suppressor was no different than buying a box of ammo.

No NO NO NO NO

Schmidt and Bender scopes..the fixed ones are made in Hungary..

AREN'T cheap...

even in Europe.

VAT in Hungary is 27 percent.

If you know someone military, maybe the could hook you up with a VAT form while in germany. That way you don't have to pay that 19% tax rate. But most scopes here in Germany are geared towards the hunting crowd, you can still find some good deals here and there.

I bought some climbing gear in Chamonix - they told me to show the receipt at the airport when I left the country and the VAT (~21.5%) would be refunded.
That made sense to me because I wouldn't be able to benefit from all the niceties that the tax was levied for....

I see alot of people talking about things that they have no personal experience, of what seems like idle gibberish.

It is all in what and who you know, like just about everything in life.  I buy Schmidt & Bender and Kahles scopes from Europe 2-3 times a year, and save a lot.  I usually buy 6 to 12 scopes, together with some friends and range buddies.  

In the last 6 months, the savings has been substantial.  $4,500 scopes for $3,000 sort of thing.  Much of this was because the Euro got slammed, dropping from $1.30 to $1.08, and the prices in the States had not dropped, in Dollar terms.  Lately, the EUR-USD rate has been adjusted, and you are seeing lower retail prices here in the US for European scopes, so the savings is a little less.  Also, the Euro has inched-up to $1.13, and also, there are some good promotions / sales going on, so the differential is much less.

In the how:  You first need a source (which becomes the who).  I have connected with manufacturers and distributors (which you can do if you are buying a handful of scopes), and they will ship without the VAT, and it does take time.  Firstly, the scopes are made to order, so that is 4-6 weeks, and then the shipping and clearing military security in Gremany and customs in the US.  Just like we have ITAR, Germany has something similar.  You have some paperwork, and it takes time, but shipping a scope between NATO countries is somewhat automatic from the German side, just time and paperwork, and the German language.  You can also have a distributor or broker send the scope to another EU country, and then ship direct to the US.  Many EU countries do not have any military item restrictions on shipping to the US (I hope they to have to other countries).  Then, you have to ship through a broker to clear US customs. UPS and DHL charge a small amount for clearing US customs.  The customs broker will need your Social Security number.  I guess US Customs tracks how often and how much you bring in, to determine the next step, but I don't really know.  Sending a $3k scope is not like sending gifts.  A customs agent looks at the paperwork, and then one of three things happens:  a) you get cleared without a duty, b) you have to pay a nominal import duty, like $50 or $100, or 3) your scope gets tagged as a European precision instrument, and you pay 15% (as I recall) duty.  There are people far more expert at this than me, but in my experience, my friends and I have all all three happen:  a, b and c, and there does not seem to be a reasonable explanation why one or the other.  Most often, it is a, and we break open a bottle of French wine (for which duty has been paid).

I know other who will buy whilst in Germany or Austria, for example, at the factories, when they can.  They will pay the VAT, and get a VAT invoice, and then get the VAT refunded at the airport, minus what seems to be a rather heavy broker fee.

Hope that helps.

I've bought a few things online from Europe.

Some places will automatically exclude VAT if shipped to the US.
Some places will charge VAT regardless, but will refund the VAT soon after completing the order (24hr-1 week IME)

I believe they same laws that prohibit Americans from taking or selling small arms related goods abroad without an export license also applies if you buy them in person with the intention of removing them from the country where sold.

It's an International Agreement that most of our allies have signed. It makes zero sense to me, but a little research may avoid customs headaches upon re-entry. Perhaps you could claim the items as part of a business trip?

ITAR (I think) is the applicable law.