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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:48:50 PM EDT
I cheaped out awhile back and bought some Amazon rifle parts. I didn't see why muzzle brakes had to be so expensive, so bought some inexpensive ones.
Well after fighting poor accuracy with several rifles, I took off the muzzle brakes and groups suddenly got pretty nice. I've considered just adding thread protectors, but I want to participate in some short range (100-300yd) rifle matches, and you need to be able to follow up shots quickly. It would be nice to have the reduced recoil of a muzzle brake. So what is your favorite brake for a target rifle? Can anyone speak to accuracy with and without their brake? Product descriptions always brag about recoil reduction and some address sound, but they don't talk about its effect on accuracy or changes to your POI. Ideally I'd like one that wasn't super obnoxious to those shooting next to me, and of course it would be nice if it didn't cost a fortune. What are your suggestions / experiences? Thank you. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 2:58:07 PM EDT
[#1]
What kind of rifle is it going on? Whats your price range?
Muzzle brakes should affect grouping as much as you are experiencing. Either that particular one had some sort of defect effecting the exiting ballistics or its possible the threads on the barrel aren't true. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:09:01 PM EDT
[#2]
I have a 6.5 Creedmoor AR, and a 6.5 Grendel AR that both currently need brakes. I also have a .223 rifle that is more of a 3 gun rifle that needs a brake.
Most designs seem to be available for multiple calibers / threadings, so I was hoping for feedback that would allow me to settle on a particular one. In one instance I had a AAC shorty brake on a .308 AR. Couldn't get 100yd groups under 3". Took it off and was getting 1" groups. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:15:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Look into the ALG SCB for the 5.56. I tested it against a few other options in a "precision" test and it did well.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:17:14 PM EDT
[#4]
IMO, there are 2 different roads. Are you going to suppress this rifle or no?
If you are, either hold off till you know/get the suppressor so you get the right brake. If you are not, then really any brake out there will do the same job. I was a fan of the JP but when i got my Saker, i went with their brake. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:23:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#5]
The effect a brake has is going to depend on your individual rifle.
My very heavy, short .308 bolt action barrel had zero change in group size. My 18" SPR profile .223 AR the loads were developed with the brake. My 24" 6.5G AR seems very sensitive to things on the muzzle. When I added a brake the groups shrunk a bit. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/10/2017 3:24:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BoxofRox:
Look into the ALG SCB for the 5.56. I tested it against a few other options in a "precision" test and it did well. Right now I do not plan to suppress any of these rifles. |
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Posted: 5/10/2017 4:06:05 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManNamedJed:
I like that - simple and inexpensive. What is this "precision" test you speak of? Right now I do not plan to suppress any of these rifles. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2017 12:47:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ManNamedJed]
[#8]
Thanks for the feedback. Anyone else?
What is LRRPF52's favorite Grendel muzzle device? |
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Posted: 5/11/2017 2:30:52 PM EDT
[#9]
So dont have a good answer for you, but whats interesting is 2 articles at PRB which cover brakes never mention affects on accuracy. That suggests they dont affect accuracy.....But I find that hard to believe. That said, it could be a quality brake mounted on a barrel with good threads (a quality barrel) doesnt actually have any significant impact on the accuracy of the rifle.
I dont know....Something to think about. Article 1 Article 2 |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2017 3:16:35 PM EDT
[#10]
I've been doing some additional reading and have seen several mentions that putting them on too tight can cause issues. One thing I read said they were put on slightly more than hand tight. I generally get them 'snug' with a wrench, the continue on until they are clocked properly. Sometimes that makes them pretty darn tight.
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Posted: 5/12/2017 10:23:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManNamedJed:
I've been doing some additional reading and have seen several mentions that putting them on too tight can cause issues. One thing I read said they were put on slightly more than hand tight. I generally get them 'snug' with a wrench, the continue on until they are clocked properly. Sometimes that makes them pretty darn tight. Mount them and snug up is all that is needed, I do use loc-tite though on the threads because i have had them loosen. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 11:00:50 AM EDT
[#12]
I've had some muzzle devices affect accuracy, even expensive ones. I try to avoid ones with an enclosed chamber with asymmetrical ports. The Surefire warcomp comes to mind. I have several warcomp on my ARs but not on the one where I'm looking for .5 MOA or better accuracy.
I run the Precision Armament M4-72 on my DMR and it works very well. Won a DMR series with it last year and there were stages requiring very fast shooting and some requiring a very high level of accuracy (sub MOA at 700 yards). I also use the Seekins brake on my bolt gun. It is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned, consistently shooting in the .3s. The popular precision brakes should so suit you well. APA offerings, PVA mad scientist, and Area 419 come to mind. |
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Posted: 5/12/2017 11:20:06 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManNamedJed:
I've been doing some additional reading and have seen several mentions that putting them on too tight can cause issues. One thing I read said they were put on slightly more than hand tight. I generally get them 'snug' with a wrench, the continue on until they are clocked properly. Sometimes that makes them pretty darn tight. http://www.avantlink.com/click.php?tt=cl&pw=55963&ctc=j2lzoln99i00zk8a00y51&mi=10077&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brownells.com%2Frifle-parts%2Fbarrel-parts%2Frifle-barrel-hardware%2Fwashers%2Far-15-1-2-28-accu-washer-system-prod54363.aspx |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/18/2017 6:03:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TAC-50]
[#14]
Check into Area 419s Hellfire Brake. Will fit multiple guns with an easy method to time the brake. I use it on a GAP10 G2 .308, a 5.56 Wilson Combat and even a AK47 SBR with NO muzzle rise and NO noticeable effect on accuracy. ONE brake--MULTIPLE guns.
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Posted: 5/18/2017 7:56:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tweeter]
[#15]
cut the threads off and crown it, 11° inset is typical
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Posted: 5/18/2017 8:10:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Area 419 Hellfire.
Excellent recoil reduction and it is modular. |
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Posted: 5/18/2017 11:33:13 PM EDT
[#17]
Based on the muzzle brake shootout, I went with the Precision Armament EFAB. It had good reviews and tested well both times. It has an additional cost with the precision rings used to time the device, but it should be a win in the long run.
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SOM
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Posted: 5/21/2017 8:28:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 2JokersWild:
So dont have a good answer for you, but whats interesting is 2 articles at PRB which cover brakes never mention affects on accuracy. That suggests they dont affect accuracy.....But I find that hard to believe. ] OP learned a lesson. |
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Posted: 5/22/2017 9:38:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: devinsdad]
[#19]
Answered a different question in this thread....getting old sucks.
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ND, USA
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Posted: 5/27/2017 9:01:21 AM EDT
[#20]
A little late to the party but I only ran Lantac dragons until I got my suppressor and switched to the specwar muzzle brake. Both work very well on my 308's (bolt and gas) and my AR's, not fun to shoot inside a building though.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:01:45 AM EDT
[#21]
I really like the VG6 Gamma I use on my .223. I have another on my 6.5CM which I'm going to put against my seekins precision brake. I don't have a lot of caparison for the .223 epsilon I have but the short couple I have through it isn't as good a the gamma.
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Posted: 5/28/2017 12:05:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Vais has a solid reputation as a target brake, but they're a little weird to install.
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SC, USA
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Posted: 5/30/2017 10:41:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Had accuracy issues using AAC brakeout mounts, switched to their regular brake or blackout FH mounts and the issue went away.
ZA |
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Posted: 5/30/2017 11:00:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ZA206:
Had accuracy issues using AAC brakeout mounts, switched to their regular brake or blackout FH mounts and the issue went away. ZA |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 5/31/2017 11:18:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Using the SC ASR brake on a 6.5 CM in conjunction with an adjustable gas block with great success spotting impacts/corrections at 400-1000 yards.
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USA
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Posted: 6/3/2017 10:01:14 AM EDT
[#26]
On topic but kinda not:
i noticed far more recoil control using accurate 2230 than Varget. I noticed a big difference between the 60 grain sierra varminter and 24 grains accurate vs a 55 grain vmax and 25 grains of varget. Both loads are in the 2900 fps range, but i could perceive one load had much less recoil... That load being the accurate powder. Your choice of gas will affect how well the conpensator reduces recoil. Accurate 2230 is a faster burning powder than varget no? |
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Posted: 6/3/2017 10:20:36 AM EDT
[#27]
FWIW I have a Rainier 16" Rock Creek 5R barrel that I put a standard A2 on, cranked down on a crush washer. Thing shot amazing groups at 200.
I replaced the A2 with a Saker brake and shims, not torqued very hard. The thing would no longer group at 200, probably 5" spread. Never thought a muzzle device could have that much effect. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2017 10:28:11 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 6/3/2017 2:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: LRRPF52]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ManNamedJed:
Thanks for the feedback. Anyone else? What is LRRPF52's favorite Grendel muzzle device? I like the TBAC brake attach devices because they are small and they work well on 6.5 Grendel. Another one that really impressed me on a 20" Grendel is the Dead Air brake. WCI pepper pot Titanium brake is also nice. The really effective ones will be obnoxious, unfortunately. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 12:02:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Knife_Sniper:
Your choice of gas will affect how well the conpensator reduces recoil. Accurate 2230 is a faster burning powder than varget no? I know when I was developing a load in my .308 to simulate the recoil of a 6.5CM I learned that powder charge weight played a role in predicted recoil. |
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Posted: 6/7/2017 3:18:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
I would imagine muzzle pressure to have a huge effect on brake performance. More muzzle pressure, I assume, would make for more thrust out of the ports. I know when I was developing a load in my .308 to simulate the recoil of a 6.5CM I learned that powder charge weight played a role in predicted recoil. |
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Posted: 6/14/2017 2:21:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Jlgil73]
[#32]
JP is the way to go. At least in 5.56 if not running suppressed.
Edit to add pic.... 
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Posted: 6/16/2017 7:45:41 AM EDT
[#33]
I have used 3 different brakes on my bolt and gas guns.
APA Fat Bastard APA Little Bastard Silencerco ASR The Little and Fat bastard seem to work the same on 260/6.5 Creedmoor. The ASR brake is effective but noticeably less effective than the APAs mentioned above. The PVA Mad Scientist works well but I feel the APA is better due to the port design. The PVA has a better price point though. I personally try to match bore diameter but others seem to not care, but I am usually trying to gain that last bit of advanatage in my gear choices. |
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Posted: 6/19/2017 5:04:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seamasterpro:
FWIW I have a Rainier 16" Rock Creek 5R barrel that I put a standard A2 on, cranked down on a crush washer. Thing shot amazing groups at 200. I replaced the A2 with a Saker brake and shims, not torqued very hard. The thing would no longer group at 200, probably 5" spread. Never thought a muzzle device could have that much effect. I learned the hard way. Changing out flashhiders and I had accuracy go in the crapper. Could not figure out what was wrong. In the end, I realized the torque values were causing the groups to be different. Both the Vortex and AAC blackout ,when torqued to similar values, gave the same accuracy. Hand tight vs. "wrench" tight was the variable. I about pulled my hair out. |
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NM, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2017 8:41:22 PM EDT
[#35]
Another vote for VG6 Gamma, had one on my 223 before suppressor. Pretty loud but made the biggest difference in felt recoil of my rifle, which I would say probably correlates to smaller groups.
Truth about guns has some pretty extensive testing. |
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Posted: 6/23/2017 10:06:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Sort of off-ish topic but applicable....is it necessary to use barrel vise jaws when installing a muzzle device, or is it OK to still keep it (the upper) mounted up in the BEV block?
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Posted: 6/24/2017 5:43:47 AM EDT
[#37]
According to magpul ' s description of the dev you can use it for installing flashhiders. I use a geissele reaction rod for every thing barrel related.
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Posted: 6/29/2017 3:08:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trumpet]
[#38]
Cool. Thanks. How is the JP "Tank" style brake? Any of SLRs options?
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Posted: 6/29/2017 11:13:43 PM EDT
[#39]
If you are asking me, I have no idea. All my brakes are by SiCo, rugged, and deadair. I shoot everything suppressed. I am going to try the dead air's brake on my grendel without the suppressor just to see how it is.
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MS, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2017 12:25:02 AM EDT
[#40]
Why are tactical muzzle brakes like the Jerry Miculek 308 and M4-72 308 not mentioned here? I have a JM on a rifle and love it. It tames recoil and is not ....too... loud. Are they just not machined precise enough?
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MO, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2017 12:44:42 AM EDT
[#41]
I have the M4-72 .308 on my Adams Arms Piston .308 and its inasanly loud. It stops recoil dead though. Hell I had carbon in my teeth after firing it and I felt like i had my head out the car window on the interstate. I was very glad I had put eyepro on before hand because I might have gone blind. I can't say it doesn't do its job though.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/13/2017 7:39:05 AM EDT
[#42]
I have a .308 Silencerco ASR brake. It's way under rated IMO... up there with some of the best, but not the absoloute best for recoil. It is one of the very best brakes that a silencer mounts to. The better a brake performs, the more annoying it is. Saying you want a good brake that does not annoy others is like saying you want a top fuel dragster with good fuel economy and tire life. Not gonna happen.
I have a AFAB on a rifle. It cuts around half the recoil, hides flash almost as well as an A2, and is less "blasty" but it does not hold a candle to the ASR brake. An ASR on a 10.5" 5.56 is already annoying to the shooter, not to mention others around you. Barrels without muzzle devices are silly, IMO. You don't need a bare muzzle to be accurate |
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Posted: 7/13/2017 5:41:29 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DevL:
I have a .308 Silencerco ASR brake. It's way under rated IMO... up there with some of the best, but not the absoloute best for recoil. It is one of the very best brakes that a silencer mounts to. The better a brake performs, the more annoying it is. Saying you want a good brake that does not annoy others is like saying you want a top fuel dragster with good fuel economy and tire life. Not gonna happen. I have a AFAB on a rifle. It cuts around half the recoil, hides flash almost as well as an A2, and is less "blasty" but it does not hold a candle to the ASR brake. An ASR on a 10.5" 5.56 is already annoying to the shooter, not to mention others around you. Barrels without muzzle devices are silly, IMO. You don't need a bare muzzle to be accurate Who knows if that's true, I'm not well versed on fluid dynamics. With that in mind, I've tried to focus on brakes that meet that description along with information from the precision rifle blog. |
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Posted: 7/25/2017 9:02:30 PM EDT
[#44]
I realy like my Battle comp on my 5.56 run and gun rifle.. it makes the gun shoot pretty flat and keeps the cuncusion away from me .. have not tried it on a precision rig because I have a surefire supressor. Anyone tried it on .308?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2017 11:03:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TexanInOhio4]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trumpet:How is the JP "Tank" style brake? I believe the "tank" style is the "recoil eliminator", but I read a good review that said the large profile has similar performance. Yes, it's "obnoxiously loud", but it reduces recoil down to near 556 levels. An SLR gas block and JP SCS I'm sure helps too. I haven't noticed any harm to accuracy. Mine shoots around .7 MOA. |
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Posted: 8/21/2017 12:14:45 PM EDT
[#46]
After shooting the LaRue Tranquillo brake, I was impressed with it from the one range trip I have with it.
My reticle did not move more than 1.5" from POA at 100yds when I broke each shot, shooting off a crappy range box covered in shag carpet. There was no perceptible concussion like with the large gilled brakes, and it sounded more like the Robocop gun, with a higher-pitched bark that was very distinct on the range compared to all the other rifles. It reminded me of shooting the Dead Air brake on a 20" Grendel within the last 2 years. They look a lot like each other, and performance was very similar-lots of control, not a lot of rifle movement at all, pleasant muzzle blast. They don't feel like getting kicked in the sinuses like a .50 BMG or one of the huge gilled brakes does to your face. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 8/27/2017 9:40:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: MS556]
[#47]
The question was "best target brake." Most benchrest shooters would say use no brake at all if optimum accuracy is intended on a light recoiling rifle.
If you have a match barrel and shoot match ammo and are 1/2 MOA capable put a thread protector on the barrel or have the barrel cut back behind the threads and have an 11 degree target crown installed. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 8/29/2017 9:47:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Just got a Little Bastard for my 20" 6.5 CM semi auto. Looking forward to seeing how well it works. I have a JP to compare it to.
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Posted: 8/29/2017 9:50:09 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MS556:
The question was "best target brake." Most benchrest shooters would say use no brake at all if optimum accuracy is intended on a light recoiling rifle. If you have a match barrel and shoot match ammo and are 1/2 MOA capableput a thread protector on the barrel or have the barrel cut back behind the threads and have an 11 degree target crown installed. |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 11/30/2017 8:59:34 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By steelcomp:
Just got a Little Bastard for my 20" 6.5 CM semi auto. Looking forward to seeing how well it works. I have a JP to compare it to. |
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