User Panel
Posted: 4/23/2017 9:11:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: FZ1Steve]
So, I want to shoot multi gun and much to my surprise they have stages at 175, 200 and 300 yards. I have never shot at distance tho my rifle is very accurate, dime sized groups at 100 yards. So, twice I have been to the 300 yard range and am having trouble zeroing my rifle. What seems to happen is I make an adjustment, like two clicks (1 click is 1/4 at 100), to the right at 300 yards, but there does not seem to be any change in POI. Then suddenly there is a change, and I am chasing adjustments!
This is very frustrating to me because at 100 I am used to seeing an 1/4 change in POI for a 1 click movement. I spent some time today at the range, fired many rounds and still did not get a zero, POI is about 1" to the left of center. I finally lost the light and got tired, packed up went home and am analyzing my targets. Also, odd is that I moved to the 200 and the POI was 5" high but centered, just where I would want it to be. 69SMK, 24.5 grains of H4895, an DPMS very heavy bull barrel 1-9 twist. So, can anyone offer a suggestion? Thank you Steve R |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
Know what you speed is?
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Prolly dropping 12-15 inch at 300, and around 4 moa. That would be 16 clicks on a 1/4 moa scope.
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any wind? doesent take much on hat 69 at 300.
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If the man can't do it, the rifle can't either...
U.S. Army Distinguished Rifleman |
What scope?
Try clicking 1-2 extra clicks then back to your correction. Sometimes scopes don't have enough spring tension to move one or two clicks until recoil forces loosen stuff up so by going past your correction then comming back you can sometimes get better results. |
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"Iran is playing with fire - they don't appreciate how 'kind' President Obama was to them. Not me!" The President DJT
I'm an advocate of the 3 chainsaw, two tractor, one wife, one God plan. |
"I make an adjustment, like two clicks (1 click is 1/4 at 100), to the right at 300 yards..."
You're not chasing adjustments, you're chasing the wind. You never dial for wind UNLESS you need to take some adjustment out of it. I've dialed for wind twice in my LR/PR career and it was due to having fast winds at extended distances. For instance, I had to make 6 shots at a plate at 1246 yards in one match. IIRC, my calculator stated my wind would be about 10.4 mils (it was the windiest day I've ever shot in in my life). So, I dialed 9 mils out of that total so I only had to hold that remaining, relatively minor, amount - 1.4 mils. I knew that it was gusting, so I didn't want to dial anymore than that, because my 1.4 could turn into a 1.8 or conversely, a .9, thus I figured leaving that much out of the adjustment would leave me room to move either way. If I told you I shot that fucker 6/6 shots, would you believe me? I wouldn't either. Good thing it was witnessed by 7 other people! The wind is so dynamic. If you dial for it, you're making a huge mistake, IMHO. What was a .3 hold last shot, could be a .1 or no hold on the next. Go stab your target back out at 300 and just hold center of paper. Unless you're experiencing 35-40mph gusts like I did during that comp, you should be on. |
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What scope?
Try clicking 1-2 extra clicks then back to your correction. Sometimes scopes don't have enough spring tension to move one or two clicks until recoil forces loosen stuff up so by going past your correction then comming back you can sometimes get better results. View Quote |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
"I make an adjustment, like two clicks (1 click is 1/4 at 100), to the right at 300 yards..."
You're not chasing adjustments, you're chasing the wind. You never dial for wind UNLESS you need to take some adjustment out of it. I've dialed for wind twice in my LR/PR career and it was due to having fast winds at extended distances. For instance, I had to make 6 shots at a plate at 1246 yards in one match. IIRC, my calculator stated my wind would be about 10.4 mils (it was the windiest day I've ever shot in in my life). So, I dialed 9 mils out of that total so I only had to hold that remaining, relatively minor, amount - 1.4 mils. I knew that it was gusting, so I didn't want to dial anymore than that, because my 1.4 could turn into a 1.8 or conversely, a .9, thus I figured leaving that much out of the adjustment would leave me room to move either way. If I told you I shot that fucker 6/6 shots, would you believe me? I wouldn't either. Good thing it was witnessed by 7 other people! The wind is so dynamic. If you dial for it, you're making a huge mistake, IMHO. What was a .3 hold last shot, could be a .1 or no hold on the next. Go stab your target back out at 300 and just hold center of paper. Unless you're experiencing 35-40mph gusts like I did during that comp, you should be on. View Quote |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
If you run the numbers I think you'll realize how important wind becomes at even intermediate distances.
Dope for my 69gr load at 300 yards is 5" of windage (4.94" according to Applied Balistics) for every 5mph of crosswind. 5mph is barely a puff. |
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I had no idea a small breeze would make that much difference, thank you.
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
Need to shoot a group, like 5 shots, then make adjustments.
Shoot 5 more, etc. |
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Grab life by the pussy!
Single men in barracks don't turn in to plaster saints. - Rudyard Kipling |
You're .5 grain over what I consider a working load with your powder/bullet combination.
Since you're competing in 3gun you probably want to zero on 4x, that way you don't waste time in tournaments dialing more magnification. Shoot 10 round groups, then adjust to center the group. Zero wind blowing when establishing you zeroes. I zero every rifle I own at 200 yards. I come up 10 1/4 moa clicks to be centered at 300. (2.5 moa) I just point and shoot at anything under 200. I'm only 1.5" to 1.75" high at 100, depending on barrel length. I'm using 20" barrels most of the time |
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Your scope may be defective if you need to tap it. Use four click adjustments (1moa) at a time to insure you're actually getting movement when you make clicks. 1 moa is only 3" inches at 300 yards.
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Or you are bound up inside your scope. Most modern scopes are in fact two
Tubes. One had the lenses. The other holds the first and your turrets move It inside. I had a B&L elite 3000 that had not a lot of adjustment inside. If you bound up the scope vertically you could be getting wonky action horizontally. |
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You're .5 grain over what I consider a working load with your powder/bullet combination. View Quote |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
Since you're competing in 3gun you probably want to zero on 4x, that way you don't waste time in tournaments dialing more magnification. View Quote |
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Out of every 100 men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets. Nine are the real fighters and we are lucky to have them for they make the battle. Ah, but the one...one is a Warrior, and he will bring all the others back.
-Heraclitis |
You need some long range instruction.
It will change the way you see shooting rifles entirely at those ranges. Find a reputable trainer in your area, and get in on a class, like a DM class, not a LR bolt gun class. |
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AR15/AR10 student since 1980s
Co-author of 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks Vol I & II NRA Certified Instructor: Basic, Pistol, Rifle, RSO, Shotgun |
I'm not an expert by any means and have no formal training but I do regularly shoot 300 yards under similar conditions as you describe. Rifle cant will become quite obvious at 300. Slight changes in the way the trigger is pulled, shoulder pressure, forearm pressure, all become more pronounced at distance.
Work on having a perfectly level rifle, consistent pressure on the rifle and follow through on the trigger. Practice, practice, practice. Have fun and good luck! |
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Originally Posted By SpringArm:
I'm not an expert by any means and have no formal training but I do regularly shoot 300 yards under similar conditions as you describe. Rifle cant will become quite obvious at 300. Slight changes in the way the trigger is pulled, shoulder pressure, forearm pressure, all become more pronounced at distance. Work on having a perfectly level rifle, consistent pressure on the rifle and follow through on the trigger. Practice, practice, practice. Have fun and good luck! View Quote |
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AR15/AR10 student since 1980s
Co-author of 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbooks Vol I & II NRA Certified Instructor: Basic, Pistol, Rifle, RSO, Shotgun |
What seems to happen is I make an adjustment, like two clicks (1 click is 1/4 at 100), to the right at 300 yards, but there does not seem to be any change in POI. Then suddenly there is a change, and I am chasing adjustments! This is very frustrating to me because at 100 I am used to seeing an 1/4 change in POI for a 1 click movement. I spent some time today at the range, fired many rounds and still did not get a zero, POI is about 1" to the left of center. odd is that I moved to the 200 and the POI was 5" high but centered, just where I would want it to be. View Quote There's nothing wrong with your scope. At 300 yards, you're seeing the effects of wind. It doesn't take much to move that small bullet. In 3 gun, at extended ranges, you will hold left or right for any crosswind. Re-zero your wind at 100 yards, then put the cap back on and don't touch it again. Adjust your elevation to POA POI, or slightly high, then move back to 200 and zero elevation (again, don't touch the wind knob). Shoot at 300 to verify your precise drop at 300 (don't touch the wind or elevation knob). Done. |
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The scope could be an issue as was stated. A lot of scopes are not intended to be adjusted shot to shot. Go to 100 yards. Shoot 3 shots adjust 2 minutes windage. Shoot 3 more. See if the group after the adjustment is the same size. I have an acog which isn't meant for adjusting between shots and it will still be settling in. The first shot may not move at all after the adjustment. The wind does matter at 300 yards and will move you around too.
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