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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:13:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
That is really weird. You're taking about case length? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By CaliContractor:
Ok I just got the modified grendel case for the hornady OAL guage. I did it about a dozen times and was very light on the pressure and I keep coming up with 2.340. I do not know if this is the number it should be but it is what I am getting with the eld bullet. I did compare the 123 eld to an 123 amax and oal of the bullet is the same. 1.236, using the number 5 hornady ogive thing on the calipers they both measure out the same at .659-.660 One thing I did and it does not make sense to me is the unfire case is larger then the fired case. The unfired case measure 1.513 and the fired case measures 1.510 |
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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:17:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Lapua brass is worth it.
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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:22:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: CaliContractor]
[#3]
what do you guys think of the measurement of 2.248 with the OAL guage?
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Posted: 4/3/2017 11:32:58 PM EDT
[#4]
That's pretty long.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 12:31:03 AM EDT
[#5]
ok I think I found a problem with the OAL guage, if I screw the case all the way down it protrudes to far into the case to let the bullet go any deeper the the measurement I posted above. I grinded off the nipple above the threads so that the bullet could drop nearly all the way into the case.
When I rechecked the number I got was 2.248, sorry for any confusion as I have never used this tool and that length was bothering me, still not 100% sure im right but it feels better when i'm doing it. either way PF needs to figure out what to do with this barrel, soon. |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 12:37:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor:
what do you guys think of the measurement of 2.248 with the OAL guage? |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 1:05:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
That's what most 123gr SST are at. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By CaliContractor:
what do you guys think of the measurement of 2.248 with the OAL guage? |
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Posted: 4/4/2017 2:23:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Mark says he needs the upper and the ammo, no shipping label so I guess I get to eat the costs on that.
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Posted: 4/4/2017 3:16:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor:
Sorry not picking up what your putting down. Care to clarify? Thanks. A lot of 123gr AMAX are at 2.250" COL. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 4/5/2017 7:18:46 PM EDT
[#10]
It sucks but soon you will be very happy I'm sure. Keep us posted. I just ordered a case of eld's so I'll let you know how they are in mine
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Posted: 4/5/2017 7:53:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Crabby48:
It sucks but soon you will be very happy I'm sure. Keep us posted. I just ordered a case of eld's so I'll let you know how they are in mine As far as I know in that time I have never had a compliant about me or my work, that's alot of people I have interacted with maybe in the 10's of thousands, so maybe I expect to much and hold people to my standards. I also get that people make mistakes, that's part of being human and learning. It's how you handle the mistakes if you make them and then go on to make sure they do not happen again. This will be the 3rd screw up on this barrel and the 2nd time back, I don't even feel like dealing with the third issue which from my emails are improperly sized threads or the wrong pitch and possibly both |
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Posted: 4/5/2017 7:55:18 PM EDT
[#12]
Factory 123gr Amax and Eld both function well in mine. Same poi at 500yd, same accuracy. Chrono less than 5fps from each other out of my 16" Bartlein at 2450fps.
Keep the faith, it will be worth it. |
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NJ, USA
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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:47:04 PM EDT
[#13]
I got some eld and they work in mine. My barrel was before yours so I guess a lot can change in that time.
I can't get mine to group better then 1 3/4 though. I think it's me but I can shoot my other rifles way better. Shit I can almost get those groups with an red dot and m193. Have you heard anything from PF? |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 8:08:00 PM EDT
[#14]
I'd ask for a refund, talk to your bank/cc issuer about it if PF isn't willing to take it back.
I know my bank has been great in the couple of chargebacks I've done that were only a couple months old. I got fucked on a suppressor purchase that was 12+ months by the time it was clear I wasn't getting my suppressor and the company went bankrupt, and the bank couldn't do much about that. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 6:47:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor:
ok I think I found a problem with the OAL guage, if I screw the case all the way down it protrudes to far into the case to let the bullet go any deeper the the measurement I posted above. I grinded off the nipple above the threads so that the bullet could drop nearly all the way into the case. When I rechecked the number I got was 2.248, sorry for any confusion as I have never used this tool and that length was bothering me, still not 100% sure im right but it feels better when i'm doing it. either way PF needs to figure out what to do with this barrel, soon. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 11:59:26 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glorifiedG:
Are you saying the longest that particular bullet can be seated is giving you an OAL of 2.248" ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glorifiedG:
Originally Posted By CaliContractor:
ok I think I found a problem with the OAL guage, if I screw the case all the way down it protrudes to far into the case to let the bullet go any deeper the the measurement I posted above. I grinded off the nipple above the threads so that the bullet could drop nearly all the way into the case. When I rechecked the number I got was 2.248, sorry for any confusion as I have never used this tool and that length was bothering me, still not 100% sure im right but it feels better when i'm doing it. either way PF needs to figure out what to do with this barrel, soon. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:22:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Well that's no good. I've never heard anyone mention loading long and single feeding but I figured it was possible.
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/19/2017 1:55:25 PM EDT
[#18]
I've heard threading your own case fired in your chamber gives a more accurate reading for headspace.
And using that fired brass to find what a particular bullets base to ogive length would be more accurate . Can anyone add to this. Sounds like it was chambered with their own rounds in mind, and minimum spec. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 6:14:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By smashedminer:
I've heard threading your own case fired in your chamber gives a more accurate reading for headspace. And using that fired brass to find what a particular bullets base to ogive length would be more accurate . Can anyone add to this. Sounds like it was chambered with their own rounds in mind, and minimum spec. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 8:00:52 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glorifiedG:
Well that's no good. I've never heard anyone mention loading long and single feeding but I figured it was possible. In OPs case it sounds especially short. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 3:36:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Torchy]
[#21]
Eh well shit op, sorry to hear. I ordered my G barrel from them in early December and just called him the other day to get an update, got pushed back a lot! Originally quoted 16-18 weeks, now I'm looking at 24 weeks
I spoke to him for a while at SHOT this year and he told me he hired a new machinist to help handle his work load. I wonder if this is the result of the new guy. Any update? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2017 6:34:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: cb4017]
[#22]
Thought I would mention here I received my 20" PF Criterion 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt yesterday. VERY nice looking barrel. Polished which I didn't expect. Clearly test fired, no burr at the gas port, chamber nicely done and polished.
I pushed a factory AMAX and ELD round into the chamber and they came out with no drama. I also tried some 123 gr AMAX and Nosler CC handloads that were loaded to 2.260" had no problems with them. So I screwed the barrel into an Aero Precision M4E1 enhanced upper. No problems ejecting live rounds out of the chamber. I took her out today. Initially I had some functioning issues, specifically failure to go into battery. I guessed the extractor was too tight and removed the o-ring from the extractor spring. No issues after that. It shot pretty good. I wasn't trying too hard, being more concerned about functioning. First 3 rounds through it were at .644". Last 2 groups were .536" and .732" with the Nosler 123gr CC and 31.2 gr of CFE-223. I fired a total or 29 rounds, cleaned the barrel several times and saw no sign of copper fouling. So far I'm satisfied. |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 7:48:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cb4017:
Thought I would mention here I received my 20" PF Criterion 6.5 Grendel barrel and bolt yesterday. VERY nice looking barrel. Polished which I didn't expect. Clearly test fired, no burr at the gas port, chamber nicely done and polished. I pushed a factory AMAX and ELD round into the chamber and they came out with no drama. I also tried some 123 gr AMAX and Nosler CC handloads that were loaded to 2.260" had no problems with them. So I screwed the barrel into an Aero Precision M4E1 enhanced upper. No problems ejecting live rounds out of the chamber. I took her out today. Initially I had some functioning issues, specifically failure to go into battery. I guessed the extractor was too tight and removed the o-ring from the extractor spring. No issues after that. It shot pretty good. I wasn't trying too hard, being more concerned about functioning. First 3 rounds through it were at .644". Last 2 groups were .536" and .732" with the Nosler 123gr CC and 31.2 gr of CFE-223. I fired a total or 29 rounds, cleaned the barrel several times and saw no sign of copper fouling. So far I'm satisfied. Hope to hear back from you OP and good to hear your recent story. Will you leave the oring out of the extractor for good? What's the fix there? |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/21/2017 8:07:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Torchy:
So I guess Mark did your barrel and not the new guy... I kid I kid Hope to hear back from you OP and good to hear your recent story. Will you leave the oring out of the extractor for good? What's the fix there? |
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Posted: 4/21/2017 8:10:39 PM EDT
[#25]
And with mine adding an O-ring fixed my issues (different components), so whatever works.
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Posted: 4/21/2017 9:38:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Good to know
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USA
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Posted: 4/23/2017 10:22:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor:
Ok I just got the modified grendel case for the hornady OAL guage. I did it about a dozen times and was very light on the pressure and I keep coming up with 2.340. I do not know if this is the number it should be but it is what I am getting with the eld bullet. I did compare the 123 eld to an 123 amax and oal of the bullet is the same. 1.236, using the number 5 hornady ogive thing on the calipers they both measure out the same at .659-.660 One thing I did and it does not make sense to me is the unfire case is larger then the fired case. The unfired case measure 1.513 and the fired case measures 1.510 2) Do you know what reamer PF used to chamber this barrel? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 3:26:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glorifiedG:
And with mine adding an O-ring fixed my issues (different components), so whatever works. A RLGS correctly ported and buffered should never need an O ring. If you do have early unlocking, it needs to be addressed with the port, carrier weight, buffer weight, or adjustable gas. The AR15 extraction systems works really well when timed correctly. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2017 8:52:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Going to ask, may be irrelevant here, but, I just got my build out to the range to try. I was shooting the 123 AMAX out of an Odin Works 18" DMR barrel with an Odin Works adjustable gas block.
With the gas turned off or too low, the cases were sticking and I could not pull them out via the charging handle, I had to tap the charging handle out with a piece of wood. With the gas turned up, it functioned properly. I asked Odin Works and they said that is normal and best not to shoot with the gas turned all the way off. Just curious on thoughts here about that??? |
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Posted: 4/25/2017 9:01:08 PM EDT
[#30]
When you turn off the gas there's nothing to push the bolt carrier group rearward. The adjustable gas block is so you can adjust how much gas instead of all the gas, which may not be needed. Of course gas port size and location effect that too but if they're wrong, you're stuck unless you want more.
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Posted: 4/25/2017 9:50:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronnoc:
Going to ask, may be irrelevant here, but, I just got my build out to the range to try. I was shooting the 123 AMAX out of an Odin Works 18" DMR barrel with an Odin Works adjustable gas block. With the gas turned off or too low, the cases were sticking and I could not pull them out via the charging handle, I had to tap the charging handle out with a piece of wood. With the gas turned up, it functioned properly. I asked Odin Works and they said that is normal and best not to shoot with the gas turned all the way off. Just curious on thoughts here about that??? |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2017 9:55:41 PM EDT
[#32]
I don't think so. Will need to check for sure when I get back, on the road for work now, but I do not believe that it did.
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CO, USA
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Posted: 4/27/2017 2:57:27 PM EDT
[#33]
OP-
Just getting into this thread. I've experienced similar issues with my Wilson Arms barrel from JSE. Factory SSTs and my reloads passed the Wilson case gauge but would "stick" in the chamber as you've described. I got caught up in the red herring of the Type I/II bolt since they switched their chambers sometime between when I bought my barrel and now and so initially I thought I was using the wrong bolt. One of the things I'm doing in order to have a crystal clear answer to this is renting a set of go/no-go gauges. They should arrive on Monday. I found a website "www.reamerrentals.com" where you can rent the gauges for $25 total including shipping both ways instead of having to drop $99 + shipping and backorder to buy a set elsewhere. It's all a PITA but worth it to me to have a clear answer on the chamber. In all my research, I found that this is a good way to get a definitive answer on whether you're chamber is too short. If your barrel were to fail the headspace test using go/no-go gauges, I think you'd have a very valid reason for a refund. If it passes the gauges correctly (chambers on go, doesn't chamber on no-go), you've at least eliminated one possible problem. I'm in the same boat as you - I could've mailed the barrel back and they offered to take it; however I preferred not to break my build apart just yet and like to get things like this figured out on my own. Also, make sure you clean that chamber out real good. Don't mean to insult your intelligence here... just another variable you can eliminate. Good luck. |
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Posted: 4/27/2017 5:41:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Those gages don't tell you if the throat is short and that the bullets are tightly jammed into the lands or not.
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/28/2017 5:47:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lomshek:
What happens when you chamber then extract a live round? Does it stick too? |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/1/2017 11:14:38 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glorifiedG:
Those gages don't tell you if the throat is short and that the bullets are tightly jammed into the lands or not. |
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Posted: 5/1/2017 11:51:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chrazy-Chris:
You're correct. But they will tell you if the chamber was cut too short at the shoulder which could be the issue. |
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Posted: 5/19/2017 11:15:15 PM EDT
[#38]
I know it's been awhile since I started this thread and wanted to update it. I was thoroughly at my wits end with this build and just had to walk away from it for awhile. I had knee surgery and then went to Maui for a few weeks to relax and recover. While I was gone my reloading dies (Redding) came in as well as some components that I had ordered before my trip.
Mark wanted the entire upper and I didn't send it back for 2 reasons, 1 I have zero faith in him or his business at this point, 2 the barrel extension was so loose in the Vltor MUR upper I would compare it to hot dog down the hallway analogy, so the upper got bedded with red high temp permatex threadlocker. I didn't want him to destroy my upper trying to get the barrel off. I decided to see how far back I would have to push the bullet back to get proper cycling. I am able to get proper cycling of single rounds when I push the bullet back .005. The ELD is measuring on average 2.247 and when I take it back to 2.242 I can cycle by hand. I don't know if this is the proper fix and I will have to range test it to make sure but at this point I feel ok with what I have and hope over time I can load a little longer. |
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Posted: 5/20/2017 8:26:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CaliContractor:
I know it's been awhile since I started this thread and wanted to update it. I was thoroughly at my wits end with this build and just had to walk away from it for awhile. I had knee surgery and then went to Maui for a few weeks to relax and recover. While I was gone my reloading dies (Redding) came in as well as some components that I had ordered before my trip. Mark wanted the entire upper and I didn't send it back for 2 reasons, 1 I have zero faith in him or his business at this point, 2 the barrel extension was so loose in the Vltor MUR upper I would compare it to hot dog down the hallway analogy, so the upper got bedded with red high temp permatex threadlocker. I didn't want him to destroy my upper trying to get the barrel off. I decided to see how far back I would have to push the bullet back to get proper cycling. I am able to get proper cycling of single rounds when I push the bullet back .005. The ELD is measuring on average 2.247 and when I take it back to 2.242 I can cycle by hand. I don't know if this is the proper fix and I will have to range test it to make sure but at this point I feel ok with what I have and hope over time I can load a little longer. If you want to shoot factory ammo you surely don't want to have to seat them deeper. Of course by having to seat the bullet deeper you are leaving less room for powder as well, so potential muzzle velocities will be lower in your handloads. |
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