That's an amazing build, I'd be pretty happy with that.

What buffer is everyone using?

I had a rifle buffer and fixed stock on mine but switched over to a standard carbine tube and sopmod.

Awesome build! Almost similar to what mine is going to look like. But mine will be using an A2 stock and a Mk8 rail(dont know what optic).

Cant wait to see the range report. I take it from the flash hider you plan on suppressing it in the future?

Already have a Hybrid for it. Hopefully the adjustable carrier will work well enough at regulating gas.  



Playing around with this rifle in the house, I'm thinking I may change out the stock for something fixed, either an A2 or a PRS.

I'm currently using an H2 buffer on a 16" midlength barrel, SLR adj gasblock, and suppressor.  With an earlier AA 16" midlegth, I used both standard carbine and H2 buffer, non adj block, non supressed...worked fine both ways.

Well after using my grendel this weekend at a dmr match I can say that I am hooked on it. Hit steel from 100 to 620 yards, and I had never shot longer that 135 yards with it.
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Build is an 18" odin works barrel and bcg.
Seekins rail
MBT Trigger
Moe rifle stock
Bushnell elite 6.5-24 ( too much scope changing to 3-15 vortex here soon)
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View for 620 yards

I just bought this complete upper.  BCA BRANDED 16" 6.5 GRENDEL TYPE II BLACK MELONITE AR-15 COMPLETE UPPER ASSEMBLY with M-LOK (not shouting, just copied the text off of their website).  $310+$10 shipping: $320 total for the complete upper.  It is Melonited 4150 CMV barrel.  



All but one of their 6.5 Grendel uppers are now in stock. They have stainless barrels and barrel lengths from 16" to 24" and prices ranging from like $250 to $350 on complete uppers.  I figure for fun or someone who doesn't want to put a lot of money in, it might be worth it since they are not too pricey.  They are a Type II.

I took a chance on a 24" for that price. Form another poster's conversation with Bear Creek, they are running SAAMI chambers with .136 bolts (which is why they say 'TypeII')

So obviously I'm pretty new here but I've been reading posts for awhile. I'm fairly new to the "building" world and have an ar that i built but now I'm looking for something in a different chamber. I just recently started looking at the Grendel after seeing these threads. My biggest concern is that I currently don't have means of reloading. Is it worth spending the money on building a Grendel if I can't reload my own ammo? I'm not talking about pushing its limits but still want to be fairly accurate out past 6-700 yards. Any advise would be appreciated! Thanks!

By my last count, there were 42 factory Grendel loads and climbing.

That includes:

AA 120 Nosler Ballistic Tip, 120gr TSX, 123gr Scenar BTHP, 129gr SST, 130gr Swift Scirocco

Hornady 123gr SST and ELD-M

Federal 90gr TNT, 120gr Match, 120gr Fusion, and 130gr Berger VLD Gold Medal Match

Precision Firearms has 2 dozen loads ranging from 100gr TTSX on up to 129gr ABLR, all with Lapua brass

Wolf Steel case for 27 cents a piece, 500rd cases as low as $112

There is no limitation for shooters getting into this cartridge if you were thinking that you need to load for it to shoot it.  When I got onboard with it finally in 2009 after watching it for 5 years, you had to hand load to be able to shoot, as AA sold out ammo quick, and Hornady was still tooling up production.  You could find PPU 123gr SP back then, but it was a terrible load with a lot of issues.

Now, there isn't another cartridge that has anywhere near the spread of ammo options and capability in the AR15.

Your best deals can be found online.  I order all my factory ammo online, no matter the cartidge anyway nowadays, but I allways see 6.5 Grendel on store shelves locally and when I travel for shooting events.  Just bought some up at Sportsman's in Lewiston, ID, when we were up at BoomerShoot.

It's at both Sportsman's that are within 20 minutes of me as well.

But no, you certainly don't need to load for 6.5 Grendel now.  It hasn't been an exotic cartridge in years, especially once the steel case started showing up.  That changed everything, on top of SAAMI standardization several years ago.

Factory ammo is just fine. Some runs under an moa in both my rifles. Reloading is just a progressive step in the shooting world of looking for the holly grail of accuracy. Just have fun and when you're ready to step into reloading the grendel is a fine mild manored cartridge to start with.

I just ordered a Balistic Advantage 18" SPR profile barrel to build a Mk12 Mod 0 clone in 6.5 with.  It should be a nice compliment to the Mod H clone I built with a reprofiled and cut down 18" Lilja 6.5 barrel. Next up will be a Grendel SBR of some kind.

Awesome thanks guys! This is the response I thought I would get but wanted to make sure before spending any money and regretting it later!

When I first learned about 6.5 Grendel, it was through a buddy of mine who worked at the SF CQB and Sniper training school house out of SWC at Bragg, major gun guy who had been in 1st Group's dedicated Counter-Terrorist/Hostage Rescue unit as a Sniper for many years, and had been an instructor for SOTIC for at least 12 years, where he had retired and continued to work as a civilian instructor.

He said his Grendel was his most accurate rifle, which I just figured was him being excited about a new toy.

Everything about it seemed exotic to me, out of reach, one source of ammo, other than being compatible with the AR15.

Knowing that it takes 5 years for most new things to get the bugs worked out, I watched it to see how things would turn out before putting my toes in the water.

Since I was doing a lot of Military-only Sniper Competitions where you work as a 2-man team for overall best team score, I started to take interest in a lighter rifle than the AR10/LR-308 beasts I was using, which sucked to carry, were horrible when trying to negotiate confined spaces, Land Nav courses, or shooting from barricades.

I was actually looking at going with an AR10 in 7 SAUM, but brass availability was an issue, and the rifle would still be a beast to carry.  A Team won the Benning comp using 7mm SAUM AR10s around that time, which caught my attention.

I decided to go .260 Rem for the large frame AR, since .308 Win. wasn't competitive.  Since we worked in teams, and they were adding more realistic stages where you have to run and gun before getting into position, I started looking back to the AR15 as a LW solution.

I wanted an 18" or 20" Grendel, so I tried to order a barrel/bolt combo from Midway and they were always sold out, things just kept moving no matter what.  You had to get on an email notification list just to have chance.  I got a notification that 18" was in stock, logged in, put it in my cart, went to put in a mag or something, tried to check out....gone.  Went back and saw a 16" in stock, the rest is history.



Initially, I was not that impressed at all with it trying my first loads of N140 and 123gr Scenar.  Speeds were really slow, accuracy sucked, but I was using a Quick Change Barrel upper from MGI which was the most loose set-up I've owned, it being one of the early model, engine paint handguards with welded features.

I found the Grendel Forum, got some additional load advice for powder selection from another retired 1st Group guy, and headed back out to see what it would do.  Started getting speeds that made more sense, were faster, and gathered a lot of chrono data.  I saw right away that it was doing as well or better than what I was seeing from other cartridges, especially with hunting bullets like the 100gr NBT.

I installed it in a regular upper eventually, and got some ammo from Precision Firearms, namely the 123gr Scenar load.  Saw that it would shoot sub-MOA from a LW gun.  My nephews could connect 1st-round with it from 300-600yds on my 12" and IPSC sils with ease, without any recoil fatigue.

I started shooting it more and more once Hornady AMAX ammo became plentiful, and found that it was predictable out to much farther than I ever thought it could be.

Started testing more loads, gathering more data, and just enjoying the cartridge/AR15 combo more and more, to the point that it overtook my trigger time with .260 Rem (my competition gun).

Then I wanted another one with a higher end barrel with a LW profile under the guard, .740/.740 forend.  We did a Lilja group buy through the forum, where Dan Lilja was skeptical we would be able to hit his minimum order.  Within maybe 2-3 weeks, we had hit 86 barrels, many guys ordering 2-4 barrels per, when he had to cut it off.  He made it a regular offering after that since demand was so high.

For some crazy reason, I felt that we needed a reloading handbook we could put in our hands, instead of relying on printed out sheets, internet data, etc.  I wanted something better than the photocopied One Book / One Caliber series, so I proposed the idea of compiling and publishing a more comprehensive AR15 Grendel specific reloading handbook.  One other guy (Vietnam FAC, retired defense aerospace engineer with a career in weapons RDT&E) took it seriously, and we went to work on it with our own time, resources, and money.  Another guy with a PhD helped with formatting, data analysis, layout, and graphs.  We spent a year on Volume I, which went to print in early 2013  IIRC.

We were getting a lot of questions about a hunting-specific volume, and felt it would be a good addition to have, so we went to work on that one for another year, including terminal ballistics testing.  They've been well-received, but they are not profitable products in the long run, so they have been labors of love.

I built my next Grendel with one of the 18" Wasp 318 profile pipes, and couldn't be happier.  Ended up with a 7lbs 12oz scoped 18" AR15 carbine with superb balance, ragged 10rd hole accuracy at 100yds, and sub-MOA rapid-fired 6rd group accuracy at 1000yds








Along the way, several people who had another cartridge agenda to push have gone out of their way to trash my name and character, insisted that I'm a paid shill for AA, a pathological liar, lied about who I know, claims I've made, and just a general negativity that I never thought I would encounter.  The honest to God truth is that I realized performance from the AR15 that I always wanted, but never saw a solution for until the 6.5 Grendel.  I share my personal experiences with others who might be interested in them, and let the chips fall where they fall.  Nobody is paying me, asking me to mention Grendel, or promising compensation.  I would steer clear from a company like that anyway because it means their product can't speak for itself.

Since then, I've added several more 6.5 Grendel AR15s and now a Howa Mini bolt gun to my armory.  I also own many other rifles in different chamberings, to include .260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmoor, .223 Rem/5.56, .270 Winchester, and 7.62x54R (Finnish surplus M28 and M28/30).

I'll be working with the 6.5 Grendel, 6.5 CM, and some other things in the near future, but I find the 6.5 Grendel/AR15 combo to be the ideal rifle/cartridge combo for more tasks than any previous rifle/cartridge combo I've ever owned or used.  The higher or lower I go in weight or performance from that balancing point, the more specialized I find that rifle limited to.

I got my first 6.5 sporter by selling a guy some land. He hit me up to buy a rifle kit from him sense he did business for Model 1. Well the kit came with 4 boxes of shells a set of Lee dies and one magazine. This was also my first semi build sense the upper was completed.
I managed to scrounge a receiver in late 2007. That was like pulling hens teeth. So I put the upper on my Bushmaster varminter with 2 stage rock river trigger. Well it surprised me just how well it shot with the 123gr black hills factory loads. So I thought it shoots this good with factory stuff what will it do with reloads.

But guess what no Data! So the box said Grendel so I started searching and found Bill Alexander and I called him up. Well I didn't think he would help me sense it didn't say 6.5 Grendel. But he quickly emailed me loading data and sold me a couple more magazines. Plus put me on the list for ammo  (several different loads with a note to reply as to how they performed). Well that rifle wasn't finicky with none of the ammo except the 107gr lapau brass Alexander loads. But it would still hold under 1 1/4moa. You know he didn't have to help me out with someone else's product but he did.
Well then I took the rifle to cull doe's. I still wasn't sure how it would perform cause well it just seemed anemic, but the  .30/30 was slow and it killed deer just fine. Well I started out with head shots cause I just didn't quite trust it yet. And then a big assed hog showed up at over 200 yards. The rifle was so accurate I rested over the top of the round bale I was standing by. The 123gr AMAX shattered the base of the skull and the neck. Dropping the big hog in my avatar drt. But the more I shot it the more it growed on me.
So then I ordered a 16" barrel and built another carbine. But after shooting the 20" for a couple years the 16" just didn't seem like it fit me as well. Don't get me wrong the accuracy was there. That AA barrel would shoot. Then one of my buddies borrowed it to hunt hog's with. Well he fell in love with it and bought it. So I ran into the guy's with Loki at local gun show and bought a 18" billit kit. But it was the  .264lbc chamber so I wasn't sure it would shoot as well as the first two did. Well it shoots okay with 123gr bullets but it doesn't like the lower weight bullets. Well then I decided to put a Adams gas piston on this rifle. And contrary to normal thoughts it actually improved it's accuracy. Plus the fact that the bolt runs cleaner now. I made it my truck rifle.
Needless to say the last 10 years I've played with it have impressed the hell out of me. I kinda got stuck on the Amax and sst when they came out cause they just shot so well. And Bill's primary load with 2520 was just so stable here in our hot to cold environment. I just never really looked at any thing else. Other than the 95gr Vmax which I use on coyotes.
To put it simply the Grendel is stable moderate power load that is easy to master.

Yeah I've always been a 223/556 guy. Growing up my dad always had an ar but nothing other then ones chambered in that. So I built an 18" for coyote hunting and I love it but now I wanna build another but want something different. Been looking at the Odin works upper build kits

Just ran across Odin Works complete uppers.  If looking at one of these, should any other manufacturers be considered, referencing price/quality? Odin Works complete uppers

My main purpose for a 6.5 Grendel is to have a heavier caliber than 556 to hunt with but yet lighter than my 24" 308, in a AR platform.  I appreciate the ergonomics of the AR for my body.  I also would like to eventually try some paper/steel at 400 yds and possibly 600 or so.

I was wondering the same thing. I've seen a lot about precision arms but they are a little more $$$ but are they worth it?

There are some experiences and stories with PF that made me decide to go with Odin.  On a page or so back you can see a group I shot and I am not a great shot.  

Maybe a direct order from Lilja?

That's a good looking rifle! So you like the Odin stuff then? Ps how do you like the giessele trigger? I got the sd-3G on my ar and was super excited about it. Got it installed and went to the range.... maybe it's the way I shoot but I wasn't overly impressed but maybe I got the wrong trigger for the way I shoot like I said. Sorry it's a little off topic but was just curious.

I do like it, had never tried Odin before, can't complain!  I like the enhanced trigger.  The first stage is light and I know right when I am hitting the second and just how and when it will break.  Very crisp.  Will be getting another one at some point as well.

See that's why I wonder if I should've got a different one. At this point I don't know if I would buy another one but if I do it won't be the sd-3G. Any ways when you did the Odin build did you buy their complete upper or build it?

wow that is a crazy low price

these days AR parts are a buyers market

are these uppers any good????


I've got a friend wanting to try 6.5G

.

I bought the parts all separately and built it.  I wanted a lighter weight rail and they were always out of stock at the time.  You can buy a complete upper with the adjustable gas block if you want.

My Bear Creek upper is supposed to come today but I have no optics at the moment for it.

Oh nice! I looked at those today but they are out of stock as well. Now I just gotta save up the cash! That's the worst part!

So, here is the upper.  I hope to shoot it on Friday, but the fit and finish are great, no complaints.  Parts seem to work smoothly.  It came with three test fired casings.  Interestingly, they are steel casing and the website states the Bear Creek does not recommend shooting steel cased rounds.  Can't wait to try it.  

Barrel specs:

16" BLACK NITRIDE 4150 CHROME MOLY VANADIUM BARREL
CONTOUR BARREL PROFILE
1:8 TWIST
NO FLUTES
6.5 GRENDEL TYPE II CALIBER
MID LENGTH GAS SYSTEM

photobucket is such a giant turd, I swear.  Once it works I will fix the pics.

Nice! I'm jealous! Good looking rifle. What glass you putting on it?

I have a Burris MTAC 1.5-6 I think I will put on it.  Will move that from my Stealth upper and get something different for that.

Very nice. Let us know how it shoots! Need to decide if I go with the bear creek since it's cheaper or the Odin.

The Odin Works barrel cost more than the entire Bear Creek upper including the shipping.  Not cheap.

Yeah no doubt. However, if for some reason the bear creek doesn't shoot well or something I'm ok with paying more. Ps. Will any ar-15 charging handle work with a Grendel upper?

Yup. The only difference in the upper is the barrel and the bolt.

That's what I thought but wanted to be sure.

Heads up, Ive done some investigative google and talked to "anonymous sources"  At least some of the Classic firearms "US contractor" barrels are BCA.  Also midway just added some grendel barrels and a bolt that are BCA.

I have the 18" fluted SS from 5R from classic that I hope to shoot tomorrow...fingers crossed.  At that price I thought it was worth taking a chance.   The workmanship is nice, chamber smooth and nice fit with type II bolt.  Crowned barrel.  visually it looks perfect, but the proof is in the groupin'

cheers

Pressure signs...Im new to this cartridge and since it is a little lower pressure, does anyone have any feel for pressure signs when observing the brass.  I am an experienced reloader, but not with Grendel.  Anything you guys know that is unique to grendel...early signs of pressure...case head expansion...primer flat, etc.?

Thanks in advance TTF

The two most common problems in reloading the 6.5 Grendel is when full length resizing not getting the shoulder set back enough.   It is wise to use the same brand shell holder as the brand of dies.  The shoulder needs to be set back .003-.005 and can be tested by dropping a sized case into the chamber.   The Lee dies reportedly over work the cases which shortens brass life.   Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass has a small diameter flash hole which requires a small diameter decapping pin.

I have used Hornady 6.5 Grendel dies which are very good dies.  I also have a set of RCBS 264 LBC FL SB TC dies which reload 6.5 Grendel ammunition.   My decapping rod worked loose on my RCBS dies and I bent the decapping pin.  I had to call RCBS to get the proper decapping pins as the small RCBS decapping pins are still to large.  The 264 LBC dies takes a specific size decapping pin to work with Lapua brass but RCBS sent me the new pins free.

The other common problem is not seating the bullets deep enough.  There are several different bullet ogives and some require being seated a lot deeper than you'd expect.    I ran into this trying to load 95 grain V-Max, the bullet stuck in the lands and when I ejected the unfired round I pulled a bullet.  I have since bought the Hornady Lock n Load COAL gauge to measure seating depths on my 6.5 Grendels.  If in doubt make a dummy cartridge to test COAL.

There have been a few instances where barrels have been sold with short chambers.  If the barrel has short chamber the bullets can be forced into the lands which increases pressure.   A Friend bought a 6.5 Grendel barrel with short chamber but it shot really tight groups.  He decided to keep the barrel but before he could shoot factory Hornady ammo he had to seat the bullets a little deeper.

I have always loaded my 6.5 Grendel under max as I don't feel the need for speed.  A chronograph can help in determining if your getting near the 50 PSI pressure limit with the 6.5 Grendel.   If you reload using IMR8208XBR powder be cautious as pressure spikes quickly.  Start low and work up in no more than .3 grain increments.   I have used Accurate 2230 which is the same powder as Xterminator with 85-100 grain bullets with good results.  I have also used H-335 with good results with 85-100 grain bullets.  I tried Sierra 107 SMK with 8208 and got very good accuracy and velocity.  

I have also used TAC, BLC2, 748 and CFE223 and prefer CFE223 for 120, 123 and 125 grain bullets.  Many people have had good results with AR Comp which is not as temperature sensitive as CFE 223.  Leverevolution is very similar to CFE223 in the 6.5 Grendel but Varget is to slow to get decent velocity in the 6.5 Grendel case.

Your #1 indicator of pressure is chronograph figures compared against tested book values from the industry, which is why we included industry data in the handbooks.

Brass and primers are not a reliable indicator of pressure, but I still look at them when working up a load to ensure I'm not cratering primers, and to get an idea of what the gas system is doing with that load.

I have found that I need to set my shoulders back .006" from fired, otherwise the bolt won't close in all my gas gun Grendels.  I use the Hornady comparator tool with the .350" bushing for 6.5 Grendel to measure all my headspaces on brass, because it has bitten me before.

8208XBR is an excellent powder for 100gr bullets, as well as 120 and 123gr, but with 120-123gr, you need to carefully work up to 28.5gr.  Some chambers will not get to that published max load with a 123gr SMK from Hodgdon's.

With 100gr cup and core bullets and 8208XBR, you will reach compressed load levels and not be able to get more in the case, while still being under 50ksi.  It's a really good combination with 100gr ELD-M, 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tip, and 107gr SMK especially for target.

I personally mass-produce CFE223 under 123gr AMAX and SST as my current go-to loads for filling ammo boxes before heading to the range.

 Im starting off with CFE223 and maybe some R15 which I already have.    Thanks for your response!

Thanks for your generous sharing of information on this cartridge... You have been a great ambassador!!!

When setting your sizing die you raise the ram till it is cammed over.   You then screw your die down till it is setting on top of the shell holder.  Lower the ram and screw the sizing down a quarter turn.   It is a good idea to test a sized case to see if it fits your rifles chamber or basically falls out when the muzzle is raised.  If the brass sticks in the chamber the die may need to be turned a little lower.  Don't go to far or you'll crush the case shoulder and the the brass will not go into the chamber.   Usually pushing the shoulder back to far ruins the case, ask me how I know.  

Buying the same brand of shell holder helps in getting the proper shoulder set back.  I've read where others had missed matched brands of shell holders and dies.  Some people had to remove a few thousandths off the top of the shell holder to get the proper set back.  I never experienced this issue loading for 223/5.56 but it is something to be aware of before reloading the 6.5 Grendel.  I don't know if the shoulder set back issue is because of the case taper or indicative of the parent 22 PPC/7.62X39 case shoulder angle.

Hornady makes case gauge compareter.Everyone needs
With this you can measure a fired case and set your shoulders back just the right amount.

My 12.5 BA barrel arrived. The can is going to be close, but it'll work based on my test assembly. I'm more excited about this SBR upper than most due to how well the 16" AA barrel has performed. Hope to get it out to the 600yd range in a few weeks and try to clank some steel with it.

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Decided to take the plunge and build a Grendel.




Next to its bigger 6.5 brother


Pretty happy with the way that it turned out, but one thing that I noticed was that the Mako group branded E-lander 24rd mags have a much better finish than the USA branded E-lander 17rd mags directly from Alexander Arms. Is this typical?

Just curious is there a reason everyone puts a can on their Grendel's? Or is mainly just because they can? Living in Iowa they recently passed the bill for cans so I've never owned one.

Ps good looking rifles you have there!

Doubt that there's a specific benefit for suppressing a Grendel; I just suppress all of my rifles. Comp rifles typically get a TOMB mount so I can use the brake if I choose.

Most people don't because of the hurdle of dealing with NFA.

You're seeing a lot in this page because there has been a growing wave of people discovering the benefits of high BC from short barrels with tight twist.

Short barrels are best suppressed, hence the prevalance of cans on the 10.5"-12.5" guns.

What's the high BC? Sorry if these are stupid questions!

Ballistic Coefficient.

The most practical, high-BC load for SBRs in 6.5 Grendel is the 129gr Nosler Accubond Long Range at .553 G1 Litz (1300fps expansion) , as well as the 130gr Federal Gold Medal Match Berger Hybrid OTM (TGT bullet).

For hand-loaders, you can also go with the 130gr Hornady ELD-M, which doubles as a great target and hunting bullet.

In the 123gr class, the Lapua Scenar is highest (TGT), then the 123gr SMK (TGT), then 123gr ELD-M (dual-use).

129gr SST is higher at .497 G1 IIRC, not .485 per Hornady.

A Grendel SBR with the 129gr ABLR combo is the package to beat in the AR15, when looking at compactness, hit probability, retained energy, and expansion.  Nothing comes even close to it that has factory ammo and double stack ability.

Happen to know where any of those 129gr ablrs are in stock at? My googlefu must be weak because I cant find them...