Congratulations on new rifle. I would give both nuts for one but bad timing for me

I would say the SWFA for the 6.5G and the PST for the .308. Only because the SWFA is a little nicer in my opinion and it sounds like you'll shoot the 6.5G more.

Guess I have to use the access code . . .

G for gamma
B for beta
A for alpha
Omega for open sesame.

Oops!

I don't think your doing it right.

Itchy trigger fingAR . . .

There are many little details about the LaRue Stealth 2.0 that I have been noticing as I dig around this rifle.

If it were just a billet AR with a nice receiver set and quality barrel, you probably wouldn't see me posting much about it.  Silence would be more telling than signal.

Everything is Top Dead Center and aligned, starting from the detent on the buttplate of the RAT stock (which removes to expose the cleaning kit sleeves), all the way to the ports on the Tranquillo brake.

The handguard rail aligns perfectly with the upper rail, which I've not ever seen on forged receiver builds even with the best after-market handguards out there.

There is a little recess for the port door plunger housing plate on the pivot pin detent spring boss on the lower, where normally a mark will form after several impacts when the port door flings open.  Not so on this.

Aluminum billet receivers and handguard were anodized FDE before being Cerakoted FDE, and the color match across the furniture and aluminum is very uniform.

The LT-104 SPR 1.5 scope mount with matching FDE Cerakote is a nice touch as well.

I haven't spent this much time pawing over an AR in many years, and am truly appreciative of the thought and workmanship that went into this rifle from the perspective of someone who has studied this industry since childhood.

There is a lengthy list of features based on improved functionality like the gas tube ferrule (gizmo), the MBT-2S trigger, along with an extreme passion for fit between all the parts, with intelligent design woven into the components.  The flats on the Tranquillo brake are nice, and the supplied wrench doubles as a barrel nut and brake wrench with jaws for both on it.  The funneled magazine well on the lower is generous, blending into the root of the trigger guard.  I really like this rifle.

Trying to find someone to take me to the range soon so I can put her on paper.  I can't even run the foot on my sewing machines with my right foot, have been using my left, so can't drive.

I feel for you. I was wondering how to get down off the tractor the other day with out just falling. My hip went to sleep in that comfortable seat after several hours. Finally I kinda scooted down the steps. I thank God that the new tractor has a button clutch.

I know that it is all personal preference, but how well suited would a Vortex Viper 2-10 be for the Grendel?  I like that it is only 16.5oz but still gives me a decent range of magnification for hunting and paper punching.  I'm not a huge fan of the 6x I have on it now for really dialing in loads.

Just a quick update on the rifle after I was briefly able to go to the range with a good friend who took me, even went down to the pits and set up my targets so I wouldn't have to do the drunken Herman Munster shuffle in the boot.

Keep in mind the scope was sent to me in a separate swag box from the rifle, which went to the FFL.  I was worried that they would send everything to the FFL and I would need to have my wife pack us all up and go there again, but LaRue's people are on top of things, and sent the swag box straight to my residence.  Keep in mind that I never ordered this rifle, and never gave them my address.

Mark asked me to see if the Burris 1.5-6x in his FDE Cerakote LT-104 mount would hit the same POI as it did for him, so I took off the Vortex PST in LaRue LT-112 mount that I've had for many years, and re-mounted the Burris.

POI = POA right off the bat at 100yds.

The main takeaway I had from shooting this rifle is this:

For the first time, everything felt just right even compared to my high-end builds.  I never once got the sensation that I was shooting the wrong cartridge in the AR15, or that I was trying to shoehorn a larger cartridge into too small of an action.  Timing was perfect.  Action cycled like a well-oiled sewing machine, spitting out brass in a consistent pattern at about 3:30 with Federal 120gr MATCH.

One thing with these 120gr Federals I wanted to test was to see if I got full bolt closure just from hitting the bolt catch on a seated mag.  Because the COL is shorter than a tipped Hornady factory load, there is more opportunity for the cartridge to nose-dive and fail to feed.  I basically threw a curve ball at this rifle right out of the gate to see if it would choke.

As soon as I depressed the bolt catch, something happened that really bothers me a bit, to be honest...

The sucker effortlessly stripped the cartridge from the magazine, slipped it up the feed ramp, and fully seated it into the chamber so smoothly, that it made my highly-tweaked Lilja Grendel build with JP SCS feel sluggish in comparison, and that gun is very smooth.  On my builds, I de-edge and polish my feed ramps and do all kinds of work to the bolt, extractor, and ejector to eliminate potential problems that have been known to PPC wildcatters in the AR15.  This factory rifle felt smoother.

I settled in to the target, having already built the position with target-focus in mind.  My normally-better than 20/20 eyesight has taken a dump on me after 40, so I adjusted the focus ring on the ocular piece of the Burris scope, and got the target as clear as I could. I rotated the selector to FIRE, and established a tight Natural Point Of Aim in the center of one of the squares.  

In a rush to get out the door, I left my bipod on my workbench, so I had to shoot off the little carpeted block they have at the range, so I was huddled down a bit with the RAT stock settled into my rear bag.

I broke my first shot, and was rewarded with POI that is unbelievably identical to the test group Mark shot and recorded with this rifle/optic/mount combo before shipping it.  The gun didn't move more than 1.5" from Point Of Aim and was usually motionless in the reticle, meaning I can track my impacts with ease.  The Tranquillo brake does an excellent job of reducing the already minimal recoil of the 6.5 Grendel, but instead of blasting out an obnoxious concussion, it emits this Robocop gun, higher-pitched bark.  Either way, the gun doesn't really move, and is a joy to shoot.

Since I had limited time, I only brought the 1.5-6x Burris with its 3/4" MOA center dot.  I'm a big fan of NightForce and Vortex, but I have to admit that this little scope makes an ideal hunting set-up since it has capped knobs, is pretty light, with a good field of view.  What I wanted to do was shoot a series of rapid 5-shot groups to see if barrel-heating would affect group size.  When I say rapid, I mean slapping through both stages of the MBT-2S so fast that the RO's start to look at you and consider telling you to slow down.  I shot several 1.2" 5-shot groups rapid with the Federal 120gr MATCH load at that speed, which is pretty smokin'.  I would make short work of a plate rack with this rifle on a shot timer at distance.  Can't wait to shoot some video to show what I mean.

I'm going to mount a higher magnification scope on it for more in-depth shooting when I have time.  My buddy said we needed to go, and that he was going to pull my targets for me, so I blasted through 20 rounds of my 123gr AMAX hand load doing dot drills as groups before he could get to the pit.  The main thing I was able to determine with this Burris combo is that the rifle will make a killer hunting package with that scope.  Even with extreme thermal shift in an extended hog-slaying scenario, my shots will be true.

The thing that really stuck out to me (a guy who has been shooting, building, trouble-shooting, repairing, and tweaking these things for decades), was how smoothly and effortlessly the action cycled on this particular 6.5 Grendel AR15.  It felt and handled better than most of the 5.56 NATO/.223 Wylde custom rifles I've shot or built over the years, which had a lot of effort put into them under their hoods.  It reminded me of shooting a fine-tuned race gun with a light load, with butter-smooth action, to be honest.

I feel like a custom hot-rod builder who has spent half his childhood and entire adult life learning how to drive and build a highly-competitive machine, getting smoked by a factory performance shop ride-at least in the handling, aesthetics, fit, feel, & finish departments.  

I was trying to find a way to be polite to Mark in all his generosity, thinking about how I would use the Burris 1.5-6x, but I'm keeping it for a hunting scope and for DM courses on loaner rifles.

The Gen II Viper PST 2-10x32 is a sweet scope, and a neighbor of mine bought one on my recommendation for his 20" Grendel.

It is a bit of a heavy scope for its size, but the glass and build quality of it are top notch, and it has the Razor Zero Stop mechanism in the elevation turret.

What I would really love is for Vortex or NF to build a 2-12x compact AR scope with their features.

So my main focus is trying to balance weight with features.  With all of your experience, how important are exposed turrets if the scope has some sort of BDC? I know it will depend a lot on load and zero, but I'm leaning toward 123grs and a no clue on zero yet.

I'm not a big fan of BDCs since atmospheric conditions change so much, especially for those of us in mountain regions, but even your summer vs winter temp differential is enough to negate a BDC system, unless you know your offsets from each mark for the conditions.  (That's what we used to do on the M24/M3A Sniper system on Regular Army side, whereas the SF and USMC side was always chasing what actually works and how to make it better.)

One approach we use with practical long range field shooting is to have different Density Altitude cards.  Take that in conjunction with having your Kestrel and whatnot, keep on top of the conditions that way.

Exposed turrets are normally ideal for bench conditions on the range, whereas in the field, they are prone to getting turned.  Some turrets have locking features that are nice, like on the Leupold Mk.6, but it still has a lot of backlash or slop between clicks.  The Mk.6 3-18x44 is about the ideal size for a 6.5 Grendel AR15 meant more for long range shooting.  Compact with wide magnification range.

Here are scopes with locking turrets:

Bushnell Elite Tactical DMR 3.5-21×50
Bushnell Elite Tactical XRS 4.5-30×50
Leupold Mark 6 3-18×44
Leupold Mark 8 3.5-25×56
Nightforce BEAST 5-25×56
Schmidt and Bender PMII 3-27×56
Schmidt and Bender PMII 5-25×56
Zeiss Victory FL Diavari 6-24×56

When you put the huge scopes on the little AR15, you get a top-heavy rifle that likes to tip over off the bipod.

Madcowracer the nice thing about the LaRue mounts is you can have two scopes set up and ready for one rifle with minimal point of impact change. The marked bdc reticle work within 400 yards just fine if you keep your shots close. Strelok works really well with the moa recticles and does pretty good with bdc. After fondling a Burris 1 X 6 I wouldn't hesitate to mount one.
I've posted up probably 20 critter kills with a Redfield accurange. With some coyotes out a little past 400 yards. And the Burris glass is much better than my old Redfield. Marked recticles just require practice. But they are much quicker inside of a set practiced range.

LRRP nice write up now I'm wanting another Grendel. I can't wait to see some group's from when you have a bit more time.

@LRRPF52

Did you notice the receiver to hand guard attachment flanges while handling the rifle/ did they bother you at all?

The overall shape of the upper receiver and flanges is very slim and low-profile.

From just seeing it online, it seemed like it might bother me, but in my hands, I've already forgotten about it until you mentioned it.

It's a very slim set-up.  The old school quad rails kinda kept me away from the Stealth all these years.

Not so with the Stealth 2.0 set-up.  Love this rifle really.

Not bad at all! I bet they tighten up a bit as the barrel is shot more.

You over estimated me

Attached File

I have to honestly say that for the first time in literally 20 years, I have found a factory AR15 that I have an extremely high degree of confidence in out of the box.

For those of you that know me, you know the laundry list of problems I can go down that I've seen with factory rifles that I have zero interest in dealing with after assembly, so I have just bought all my components, inspected them for serviceability/fit/function, performed various additional tweaks to them to get them where I want them, Cerakoted all my external metal components from rear end to barrel, then assembled in ways that differ drastically from how I used to build a gun 20 years ago.

The AR15 does not even seem like the same rifle just based on how I have learned to look inside and assemble it.  Might as well be another gun in my mind.

This Stealth 2.0 blew all of that out of the water.  I literally took it out of the box, and it handles better than my meticulous hand-built ARs that have some of the most expensive, top-end components in them, custom-fit and smithed to work better together.

You have to feel how it shoots to understand what I'm talking about.

I'll give some comparison and contrast to provide more clarity:

With my Lilja build, I used a JP Silent Captured Spring recoil/buffer system.

When initially testing, I wasn't getting bolt lock, so I suspected the spring rate was a little too high, installed one of the lower weight springs.

In my last outing with it, I noticed a lot of carrier bounce, where cyclic rate was high enough to cause a lot of excessive carrier velocity, so while the action is very smooth, my BCG is slamming into the extension really hard.  I'm thinking that the CProducts magazine might have been the culprit in not locking back originally, rather than the SCS spring rate, so I need to go back and install the stronger spring to fight cyclic rate as a reducer.


With this LaRue Grendel, there is none of that mess.  It just cycles at the optimum rate, gassed enough for reliable and smooth feeding and extraction, to the point that it feels like the AR15 was of course originally chambered in 6.5 Grendel, and what is that other cartridge people were talking about?  It's like it revised history and time-warped Eugene Stoner into 6.5mm land, and that .223 Remington is a fantasy cartridge that doesn't even exist.  That's how well it handles just from a functioning standpoint.  It doesn't feel like we're trying to make a cartridge work in the AR15 that it wasn't meant to.

And therein lies the rub.  LaRue has resources that I simply don't.  They can conduct high-speed video analysis of the action, tune everything up, and then after nailing down a solid design, crank it out with a small army of CNC robots and well-trained employees who leave no trace of incompetence on the rifle and its parts.  I've seen some of the most well-designed rifles in development get handed off to production in other companies, who then proceed to jack-wagon the manufacturing process up so terribly, that you want to demand a urinalysis on the plant just out of curiosity.

Not so in LaRueville.  When you open the box, your immediate impression is, "These guys want me to be happy."  When I compare production quality from scope mounts I ordered many years ago to now, there is a consistency of quality that has been held.  When I go over this rifle, I'm looking for things to be wrong, because on most factory rifles I have inspected, I always find something.  There is almost always evidence that some high-as-a-kite or dumb-as-a-rock shop monkey (who was hired because of nepotism and has no business around a flea market, let alone a reputable rifle maker) has put his grubby little fingers on it, smacked a roll pin in place without his glasses on, fudged the Cerakote somewhere and said, "Good enough, eff it, next.", or ran a reamer so ragged that a factory cartridge won't even fit halfway down the chamber.

Somehow, in other shops, that kind of culture seems to be encouraged, not crushed and corrected.  I have yet to find evidence of that in LaRue's products, which gives me hope for the future.  I've been going to SHOT Show since 2008, inspect all the companies I can who are big names, as well as up-and-comings.  The garbage you see even on show room floors makes you look up at the booth people and think, "Who's decision was it to let that onto the floor?"   Then you see the exact same rifle next year for display, screaming, "Just in case you thought we cared, nope!"

I'm not seeing any of that from LaRue.  I'm seeing the opposite, and a lot of little details he keeps under his vest.  I can't wait to get out and shoot it again.  In the meantime, I'll continue my search for something to be wrong with it.

Pleased describe your barrel break in process.

They did .497 for mine. I'll have to outshoot the shootist next.

I posted all the targets I shot in the owners thread. Once I quit jerking the trigger it was smooth sailing.

Well, finally ready to start reloading for the Grendel, fortunately, Midway and Graf and Sons are not too far away!

I bought several pounds of CFE223 to start with using CCI #41 primers, Hornady brass, and Hornady 123 ELD for targets and Sierra Pro-Hunter 120s for deer.  Didn't see any SSTs.  Was thinking of the Sierra SMKs to try at some point.  Gave some thought to the Nosler 123 HPBT but I have shot AMAX 123s and they grouped awesome so figured on the ELDs to try first.

How are the Hornady 129 and 130 ELDs?  Do they fit mags fine?  129/130 vs. 123???

This will mostly be out of an 18" DMR profile, some out of 16" govt profile.

If anyone has any recommendations, I would love to hear them.  I saw some earlier in thread as well.

123gr ELD-M is a tweaked AMAX with the new tip.  AMP jacket, uniform core for better precision.

Hornady 129gr SST has been a factory load from the start.

130 cup and core bullets fit, function fine, but do have some case intrusion.  I like the 129gr ABLR myself which I load on CFE223 (it's also a factory load).

CFE223 is a great powder for speed and works across the board, from 95gr on up to 140gr for some reason, which is rare.

It's my go-to powder for 123gr, 120gr TSX, and the 129gr ABLR.

8208XBR has tighter SDs, as does AR-Comp.

8208XBR under the 107gr SMK is a great target load since you have about the same BC as a 123gr AMAX, but more speed.

123gr SMK and 123gr Scenar are good TGT bullets, as is the 120gr Scenar, but Hornady's are hard to beat for the price, so I have shot mostly 123gr AMAX for my mass-produced loads.

120gr Pro Hunter is a great 300yd and in bullet for Grendel if your mv is 2450fps, which is what we see from 16" and 18" barrels with just under max and max loads.  BC is .368 G1

123gr SST retains its energy better and drifts less in the wind due to the boat tail/higher BC (.462 G1).

The ELD-M will kill deer all day long.  Field testing has shown that 123gr SST seems to kill quicker than the 123gr ELD-M on hogs.

I have stacks of 123gr SST if you need any.

The 6.5 Grendel Handbooks will really be an asset to your bench with comprehensive load data and component selection tips, terminal ballistics data, barrel length and effective range charts, and other considerations for the AR15/6.5 Grendel.

These reports and reviews on the LaRue 6.5 Grendel are making it REAL hard to resist getting their upper deal. Been wanting to go 6.5 G for a while now.

Wondering if you can share your progress with the 129gr ABLR?  Is Nosler offering this as a factory load?  Mark, can you release any details about the load you used for you Elk hunt?

I've done some initial work-up with CFE223 under the 129gr ABLR.

We pressure-tested that combo and put it in the latest edition of the handbooks, 29.0gr start load, 30.4gr max load for 50,000psi.  

From an 18", that averaged 2410fps, which is plenty since it expands down to 1300fps and has a G1 BC of .553 per Bryan Litz.

The load AA sent to Mark with the 120gr TSX became the factory AA 120gr TSX load immediately after that.  Precision Firearms has a 120gr TSX factory load too with Lapua brass.

I personally like using CFE223 under a 120gr TSX since CFE223 is so forgiving with Grendel.  The copper solids really build pressure much faster than copper cup and lead core bullets, so you can't extrapolate data from one type of bullet to the other, and the solids are much longer for weight, so they need relief cuts in the shank to help them swage into the rifling without excessive pressure spikes.

I get 2500fps with 30.4gr CFE223 from an 18" barrel under the 120gr TSX.  With the 120gr TSX, watch your altitude as you really need to look at the BC and its effect on expansion range.  For that elk hunt way up at altitude like we see here in the Rockies/Uintahs, the air is so thin, that your effective expansion range is way farther than at sea level due to air density differences, making that 405yd shot doable up there, but wouldn't have the same expansion down at sea level.  It's still an awesome hog-slaying load within 225yds at sea level, as is the 100gr Barnes TTSX.

With Grendel, work up in .3gr increments since the case is an average 30gr usable capacity.  Charge weights range from 27-34gr with a wide variety of powders, most of which are common for .223 Rem and .308 Winchester, which is nice.  Varget is pretty bulky and doesn't build speed well, so it's one of the exceptions to that, but there are two loads for it under the 130gr Swift Scirocco and 140gr Lapua Naturalis.

Where would one go to obtain the most recent 6.5 Grendel handbooks you are referring to?

http://www.ar15buildbox.com/shop/c/p/65-Grendel-Reloading-Handbook-Combo-Volumes-1-2-x9555123.htm

http://www.shopalexanderarms.com/6_5_Grendel-Brass_Reloading.html

what do you guys recommend for a decent 16-18" barrel, that is in stock ready to ship

Might be a bit of bias with this group....Larue is shipping complete kit uppers 18"...my first choice.. Alexander has a 16" lightweight some have used with success, Odin  has a couple of offerings folks have reported decent success, and JP  has an 18", which I have that shoots well. I'm sure there are others....If you want top shelf, get the Larue and be done....or be like me and go through a couple...then get the Larue....:).

Hell of a deal on the LaRue

AA is back ordered 6 weeks

@LRRPF52

Thanks for the detail you provide us, here and everywhere else.  Your perspective and experience, shared through your written words, has had a big impact on how I approach shooting.  Passion like yours can not be manufactured, and I am very grateful that you choose to take the time to share it.    

I was wondering if you given any consideration to offering your reloading manuals in electronic format, or do you see them staying paper only?  My eyes have aged to a point having the ability to adjust the font on a tablet really helps, especially when I'm trying to read while working on the bench.  I have no clue what it takes to publish anything let alone going from print to digital format, but for me anyway, I would welcome having both.

Good point. And I have a nasty habit of misplacing my reading glasses.

LRRPF52 have you done any data with the Accurate Arms 2495BR powder yet?

I just received my LT 6.5 Grendel and I was curious if you guys thought an Accupower 3-9x40 would be a good choice for hunting until I can get something better. I can get a new Accupower now for $375 or I can wait and put that towards a better optic for precision/hunting.

We've talked about it and considered it early on.  One big challenge is dealing with RF interference on digital scales.

I can turn my wifi off on my tablet, but then hidden programs and apps will automatically turn wifi on without the user even knowing it.

What I personally do is look at the loads I'm doing, and use a black marker to write the load on a post-it note on the wall or bench for that particular load session.

I clear everything else off, including powder containers, anything that might distract me from my primary focus of loading that one single load.

So while I do like having my handbooks near or at the bench, I do not like them anywhere near what I'm doing when actually loading.

I also don't like having to scroll the screen across to line up with a particular load if it's enlarged/zoomed in on, as you can lose track.  I find this a problem with regular paper paged books as well, hence the post-it note technique for one load focus.

If I'm doing a ladder, I write it in my range notebook, and check my charge weights next to it as I load the ladder up.  I then write with a fine permanent marker on the side of the case what the charge weight is, and label the box accordingly.

finally found some 6.5 grendel in stock at a good price. Trying to find one consistent load my rifle likes. Was disappointed I could not find any 123 or 129 SST in stock anywhere, which is my bullet of choice since it does double as a hunting round. The 129gr accubond is my next choice but its more expensive as is the 130 AR hybrid. Anyway, cabelas had 123 ELD M for 19 a box so I bought 4 to bring my current total to 100 and a box of 123 ELD M projectiles at 34 bucks just to have something on hand. Currently have 2 pounds of CFE 223 I plan to reload with, and cci small rifle primers. Plan on buying a another ASR brake and running it suppressed to see how it does.

Buy 12 and shipping is free
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/22880/hornady_65_grendel_123gr_eld-match_black_20rds

Well, I have a ThunderBeast Ultra 5 30 cal all-Titanium suppressor on the way in FDE coating.

They weigh 7.6 ounces, 5" long.  Average db reduction on a 20" .308 Win. shooting 168gr was -20.3 db




At Steel Safari last year, I was able to shoot some and listen to them being shot from 6.5 Grendel 20".  It was super quiet.  It doesn't feel like you have anything more than a Front Sight Base and FH on the end of the 20" AR15 to me.  The rifle still maintains its inherent handling properties for the most part, other than being ~4" longer.

You have to feel it to believe it, let alone how quiet they are.

So I was all set on getting a 6.5 Grendel upper from a different vendor, then I had to read your review on the Larue rifle... UGH!

Unfortunately, I don't have the cash for the complete rifle right now, but what do you think about the Larue upper on a decently built out lower? Is there more "magic" in the total rifle versus just the upper kit?

Thanks!

I'm going to get a dimple job on my Grendel kit barrel.  I've not had work like this done before, but there is a shop known to some that is just down the road in Martinsburg WV so looking at having them do it.  They do real good work, but I am a bit nervous as I don't want this messed up.  I've seen pictures of Larue rifles with this type of work, so wondering if anyone has had positive experience going this route and if so, how was your experience?