I'm going to buy my first big boy scope here soon, and one thing that I keep debating back and forth is MOA or MRAD.

I do not know any arranging on there just yet, but I do hope to learn with this new scope. All of my other Scopes have been fine Crosshair reticle, so I am not sure of the pros and cons to each other one. I know the map of the Moa and mrad at 100 yards, is there a preference to one way or the other?

Rifle will be used for both hunting and mid to longer-range targets. Just trying to narrow down what my choices are and what would be best for me.

If it has a MRAD type reticle I get MRAD turrets, my brain sucks at math so it's easier for me.

Get MRAD 1/10ths are a lot easier.  You just learn to think in mils instead of inches.  MOA works the same way, but the 1/4 units aren't as clean.

1/4 MOA is a finer adjustment than .1 mils, but 7.4 mils is easier to remember than 25.5 MOA imho. Have both, prefer MRAD

The MOST important thing is that the dials and the reticle agree mil==mil or MoA==MoA. mil==MoA or Moa==Mil nadda gonna work (unless you are fluent with math.)

If you think things are "so many inches tall, high, wide" then milling with a MoA reticle makes easier sense.
If you think things are "so many millimeters t,h,w" then milling with mil reticle makes sense.

Get the MRAD.

Make sure it has the MRAD turrets. Any scope worth a shit this won't be an issue.

Matched turrets are a must. I'm not trying to play math games in the field that can be avoided. That is#2 on my must list. FFP is number 1, for ranging.

Torn between the SHV, SWFA SS and possibly a Viper. Unless something on the EE is a deal I can't refuse.

FFP Viper in MOA.

Long as your reticule matches your turret it really doesnt matter.

I have three Mrad scopes, 1/10 milrad turrets, two with milgap reticles one P4.  I've no reason to change.

If you are going to be shooting and spotting with others, use what they use so no conversion is needed. If not, either will get you to the same place.

I'm old school. MOA

I prefer MRAD and a first focal plane scope for long range shooting.  I just think MRAD is easier and a little bit faster for me.

I don't do any ranging with the reticle, and actually prefer SFP for the type of shooting that I do.

I've been in construction since I was 13, so inch measurements are pretty easy in my head, and all my scopes since I was 16 have been in MOA, so that's what I stick with.

Already said multiple times, but as long as the turrets match the reticle, the rest is really a matter of preference.

Find a long range shooting simulation on line, see what method suits you. Purchase & practice, practice, practice.

I would say figure out what the local guys are using and go with that. It will make it easier to spot each other if you speak the same language.

If you measure in yards and inches, MOA makes the math easier by working in round units.  If you measure in meters, MRAD makes the math easier.

To illustrate, "1 inch at 100 yards" and "10cm at 100m" are quicker to work with than decimal/fractional values like "3.6 inches per 100 yards".

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Just to be sure I understand, instead of measuring iinches that don't exactly line up with MOA or MIL, just measure iith the reticle measuring eith MOA or MIL, just to keep the math the same? 1MOA at 100 would be 1MOA at 500, not having to correct inches to MOA?

Correct. Measure the correction and dial or hold. This is why matched turret and reticle are important. Also print your data in which ever format you choose instead of inches. If you need 5 MOA/Mils, dial to five and shoot. There is no use for inches on your data card.

The only time a linear measurement is necessary is when ranging optically. Then you only need to know the size of the object.

OK that's what I was thinking, because the unit of measure never changes, the distance does. So 1 MOA at 100 requires the same adjustment as 1 MOA at 500, in theory, taking out gravity mmd wind.

As said, matching turrets are a must. No need for added math games on the range.

I think in inches using mrad. Example 1 mil at 100=3.6 inches, 500=18, 1000=36, etc and you can sub divide it further into tenths.

You can do that and it won't hurt anything and it's not wrong, but I use my reticle as a ruler.  If I miss and I see I hit .3 right i come left .3.  That works at any distance and it doesn't matter how many inches it is.

Finer isn't necessarily better.

Buy a quality scope with the reticle/turrets mil/mil or moa/moa. Adequate magnification to be able to see your target to estimate is very handy as  well IMHO. Ranging at less than 16x magnification has not worked well FOR ME.

Where are the affordable MOA laser range finder reticles? Where are the affordable MOA spotting scope reticles? For those reasons alone... MIL. MOA is just making things harder for no reason.

I think in inches and yards... so I use MIL. It's easier than MOA. An MOA is 1.047 inches at 100 yards. You think that is easier than 3.6 inches at 100 yards to do math with? You are either stupid or a math savant if so. Screw all those decimal places, I just think in MILS and don't do math in my head... it has already been said over and over but it begs repeating... MILS is easier and makes more sense for people who think in inches and yards, not just for people who think in meters.

Let's throw a wrench in the mix..
I say use what ever you are most comfortable with however...
The other question is what reticle ? How using scope ?
Plain cross hairs and dope with turret or etched reticle with either Mrad or MOA marks.
How well can you see the hash marks or MOA dot ?
MOA dot you have to remember how large the dot is. In most cases it is one MOA. Etched MRAD usually has very fine hash marks between the larger or longer ones.
If your eyes are not all that great or you can loose track of the MRAD hash marks, then MOA might be best ?
And... What type scope ? First or second focal plane ? Makes a difference with an etched reticle.

I loose track of the small hash marks on a full blown etched MRAD reticle and find myself double checking a lot.
So I prefer MOA. I also do not care for the extra clutter of all the hash marks when used hunting.

You don't even need to think in inches or yards.  I use the reticle as a ruler.  .2 is .2 i dont care what distance or how many inches.

MRad to maintain consistently since once you start thinking in mils, it's better to stay that way. Mil reticle and mil turrets are mandatory. I like FFP scopes too.

I'm in the mil/mil FFP camp.  Not that others aren't useable, but it's what I prefer.

I recently started shooting at longer ranges.

My two tactical scopes are a Viper PST 6-24 SFP MRAD and a SS 10X Milrad.

All my other scopes are typical capped turret hunting models with duplex reticles so I've never done any shooting using holdovers or cranking turrets.

When sighting in the two rifles with MRAD reticle/turrets I found it extremely easy to zero.  Take a shot, use the hash marks on the reticle to know how many clicks to adjust, adjust and shoot again.  And I was zeroed.  It was really that simple.

Like others have said, if the turrets and reticle match it doesn't require any math to make adjustments other than knowing how many clicks you need to make.

Or ya know ya just look at things in mil or moa and don't waste your time converting to inches.

I had a really hard time wrapping my head around reticles for a long time, and especially MRAD. Here's what I learned that made my long range shooting so much easier.

I always thought first focal plane scopes were only useful for ranging on unknown distance targets. What had never really clicked for me was that reticles are rulers. You always hear people talking about how many mils equals how many inches at what distance.. same for MOA. The most important thing I learned is that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter!

Assuming you have a first focal plane scope, and a mil/mil setup, who cares how many inches a mil equals at any distance? Use your reticle the way it was designed. If your point of aim is on a bullseye, and your point of impact is low, you simply hold the center of your reticle on your point of aim again, and count the number of mils/moa/hippies/bowie knives your POI was off from your POA using the ruler which is your reticle. This is where it's important to have a mil/mil or moa/moa setup. If you count .4mil low, move up .4 mil on your turret. At no time do you ever need to convert to inches or centimeters, and it will never matter what the range to target is (if you have a FFP setup). You should never be looking at your target and saying "I was .2 mils low which equals x number of inches. I need to move up x number of inches, which I now need to convert back to .2 mils".

Same goes for moa/moa FFP scopes. If your reticle shows you that you are 2 subtensions low, and two subtensions equals .5 moa you now know that you need to adjust your elevation turret up .5 moa.

A successful long range shooter will use the word inches zero times while finding a firing solution unless you are ranging with your reticle. Doesn't matter if it's in your head or on a dope card. A good indicator that a person is giving you advice beyond their understanding is when they mention "I think in inches" or "I don't like to think in metric" or any variation of that sort.

This is why reticle choice is extremely important. Get something you can easily use as a ruler, and that is easy to read.

The argument that a person thinks in inches or that a person needs to know how many inches moa equals at each distance would only be valid if windage and elevation turrets were in inches. But, thank god - we don't have turrets that say 1 click equals .25" at 100 yards. Ain't nobody got time to figure that out at each distance.



For the love of all that is holy.. why would you ever want to do all that math when it is 100% not necessary?

I've used both types of scopes but prefer the MOA scopes. I've been using them for more than 35 years and it's second nature for me. I just bought a Ruger RPR in 308 today. I also bought a Vortex 6X24-50 FFP scope for it, very nice scope. Now if the weather will cooperate I'll be able to get to the range in the next week or two to see how it does with factory ammo.

FFP Mil/Mil - moving all my scopes this ditection.

This.

I think everyone should have to learn with a MOA/MIl scope to appreciate matching turret reticle......

No.  mil isn't metric.



I prefer mil, because then everything is base 10.  I print my wind and drop in mil, and just dial my elevation - If I'm between two distances on my range card, the fact that the card is in 1/10ths makes it trivial to interpolate between.

Wind is also printed as a factor of 10mph wind.   This makes it super easy to to do the math to adjust the hold, since everything is a factor of 10.

MMMBop.