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Posted: 6/21/2016 8:35:51 PM EDT
As I scroll down through my FB feed trying to avoid all the political talk, I come across this article first:
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/ Basically the 6.5 family can't ballistically do anything the 100 year old 6.5X55 can't do and doesn't out peform the 308 until past 600 yards. Scroll down further past pictures of friends' kids and dogs and find this article: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308 Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:38:27 PM EDT
[#1]
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday.
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:42:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: TeeRex]
[#2]
I thought the TTAG article was garbage but I have 3 bolt guns with a 4th in the way one is .223 one in 6mm and two will be 6.5
6.5x47 and creedmor both benefit from modern case designs which offer better internal ballistics. There are tons of 6mm rounds out there. I don't think that writer had any business commenting on the subject. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/22/2016 12:09:23 AM EDT
[#3]
The author of that TTAG article is so full of shit that I'd prefer to not dignify the garbage with a rebuttal.
His statements about people getting to play "sniper" and all that were completely out of line. Are those shooting AR's all people playing tier 1 operator too? Guy is a fucking tool. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 6:17:05 AM EDT
[#4]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Because that's the caliber I have... It's bought and paid for so there's that. I don't get to shoot much beyond 500 yards so there's that too. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 6:35:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spooky130:
Because that's the caliber I have... It's bought and paid for so there's that. I don't get to shoot much beyond 500 yards so there's that too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Spooky130:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Because that's the caliber I have... It's bought and paid for so there's that. I don't get to shoot much beyond 500 yards so there's that too. I'm in the same boat, still shooting 308. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 8:09:56 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm 
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Posted: 6/22/2016 8:28:12 AM EDT
[#7]
308 is a fine round with tons of known good loads. Many people over the years have preferred military calibers.
Recently, rounds that would have been considered wildcats are gaining favor as people move to every ballistic advantage possible. Ballistic performance is key at unknown distance. This type of shooting is relatively new. Thus, the rise of alternative rounds. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 9:00:38 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. 
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Posted: 6/22/2016 2:17:06 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: Originally Posted By NUCdt04: Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG: I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 2:36:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
The author of that TTAG article is so full of shit that I'd prefer to not dignify the garbage with a rebuttal. His statements about people getting to play "sniper" and all that were completely out of line. Are those shooting AR's all people playing tier 1 operator too? Guy is a fucking tool. Bingo. Nothing wrong with a .308 but the Creedmoor and other 6.5s are just better ballistically. I have 3 .308s. They serve their purpose. Also have 3 6.5 Creedmoors and a .243. The modern 6.5s fit in short actions and give good performance. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 2:37:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47:
C'mon. Do you really think it's going to bounce 50 yards down range after it falls 7 feet straight down to the ground? Lets be a little more realistic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg 
That's an awesome chart - stealing it! |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 6:59:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47:
C'mon. Do you really think it's going to bounce 50 yards down range after it falls 7 feet straight down to the ground? Lets be a little more realistic. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mitsuman47:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg
Did you see the thread in GD a while back where a guy had a bullet skip through his front door and into his kitchen cabinets from a neighbors range a mile away? He was gone and his wife was home alone. Crazy how far they'll keep going. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 7:01:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
That's an awesome chart - stealing it! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By mitsuman47:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg
That's an awesome chart - stealing it! Not mine. I stole it too. 
But this chart is the main reason I bought a 6.5 Creedmoor.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/22/2016 7:50:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rob01:
Nothing wrong with a .308 but the Creedmoor and other 6.5s are just better ballistically. A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 8:48:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MitchAlsup:
A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Nothing wrong with a .308 but the Creedmoor and other 6.5s are just better ballistically. A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. difference is the Ferrari is more expensive than the Vette reloading I'd wager you can do better with the 6's and 6.5's than the 30 cals I had worked the math but can't recall exactly |
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Posted: 6/22/2016 10:40:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Meh. I like my .308. It uses cheap, readily available components and it shoots like a motherfucker.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2016 8:05:23 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
The author of that TTAG article is so full of shit that I'd prefer to not dignify the garbage with a rebuttal. His statements about people getting to play "sniper" and all that were completely out of line. Are those shooting AR's all people playing tier 1 operator too? Guy is a fucking tool. I think that about covers it. |
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Posted: 6/23/2016 8:50:45 AM EDT
[#18]
That article sure seemed pretty biased and arrogant to me which apparently is pretty common for that guy. Very accomplished camp perry shooter but seems to be out of his lane on the tactical/sniper stuff.
Would love to hear him answer the same question I ask all 308 guys. Why doesn't anyone use it in open competitions? Only people that use it shoot in matches that require it save a few that make you choose between 308 and 223. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
difference is the Ferrari is more expensive than the Vette reloading I'd wager you can do better with the 6's and 6.5's than the 30 cals I had worked the math but can't recall exactly Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Nothing wrong with a .308 but the Creedmoor and other 6.5s are just better ballistically. A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. difference is the Ferrari is more expensive than the Vette reloading I'd wager you can do better with the 6's and 6.5's than the 30 cals I had worked the math but can't recall exactly Exactly. That was a silly comparison to make. Camaro vs Corvette would probably for a little better(if they cost the same). Much like the 308 the Camaro will do more than enough for most people but the corvette will do it better and faster. Nobody who raced would choose the camaro. |
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Posted: 6/23/2016 9:44:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MitchAlsup:
A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Originally Posted By Rob01:
Nothing wrong with a .308 but the Creedmoor and other 6.5s are just better ballistically. A Ferrari 458 is better ballistically than a C7 Corvette, why is everybody not driving the Ferrari? The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the 308 as long as the shooter understand the ballistics and limitations thereof. While the 6.5 class has great ballistics, and while one is on my short list, the new Tipped Match King bullet ballistics has gone a long way in making up for the ballistic deficiencies of the 30 cal class. Guess you didn't want to quote the part that I said I had 3 .308s? That comparison is not the same as been hit on already. No matter what bullet you throw in the .308 you won't shoot as flat and good in the wind to long range as a 6.5. Plain and simple. .308 has limitations and knowing them doesn't do anything to make it compare any better to a 6.5. The choice for a ballistically superior long range round is easy. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/23/2016 2:38:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lightning1960]
[#20]
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Posted: 6/25/2016 11:53:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: wesr228]
[#21]
Well, it's a nicely worded essay, with the author's opinion clearly stated. However, there is no science or data provided to back up the thesis. Not saying that the data isn't out there or the claims are true or not true; just that blogs like this are worth about the amount of the paper they're printed on.
At the end of the day, who cares? Shoot what you want. Be happy we live in a world that lets you shoot your thing and others shoot theirs. |
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Posted: 6/25/2016 4:05:31 PM EDT
[#22]
There's a big difference between hit probability of the .308 and any common 6.5mm.
I think it's a factor of recoil and BC, not just BC. You also most definitely can train with a 6.5mm more than you can with a .308 Win. You will reach recoil fatigue with a .308 before you do with a 6.5mm, all else being equal. Muzzle climb is noticeabl higher with the .308 Win. Tracking your shot with a 6.5mm is simply easier. |
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Posted: 6/25/2016 10:01:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LRRPF52:
There's a big difference between hit probability of the .308 and any common 6.5mm. I think it's a factor of recoil and BC, not just BC. You also most definitely can train with a 6.5mm more than you can with a .308 Win. You will reach recoil fatigue with a .308 before you do with a 6.5mm, all else being equal. Muzzle climb is noticeabl higher with the .308 Win. Tracking your shot with a 6.5mm is simply easier. Pretty much nothing to gain. I know some people prefer the 308 when hunting but the 6.5 certainly doesn't seem to have any problem in that arena either. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/26/2016 10:40:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: ... Would love to hear him answer the same question I ask all 308 guys. Why doesn't anyone use it in open competitions? Only people that use it shoot in matches that require it save a few that make you choose between 308 and 223. The long range match I like to shoot at scores for tac class, open class and overall. That means you can say, "open class", shoot a .308 and get scored in the open class. You just can't bring a 6.5CM and say, "tactical class". You're stuck in the open class. I shoot my .223rem in the open class to keep my tactical scores unpolluted by bad scores when I know the day is going to be rough. Call me a sandbagger if you like. |
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Posted: 6/26/2016 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ballisticxlr:
I do. I specifically chose .308W and .223R because they suffer from distinct disadvantages and they qualify for restricted classes too. I'm not worried about winning the match against the money racers that currently dominate. I'm concerned with improving on my previous performance. Knowing there's 6.5CM's and my coach's 6.5mm BR out there doesn't bother me. If nothing else it lets me focus on my own performance. They're at an advantage and one of those guys usually wins but very occasionally a .308 shooter (or someone with something really strange) pwns them. The long range match I like to shoot at scores for tac class, open class and overall. That means you can say, "open class", shoot a .308 and get scored in the open class. You just can't bring a 6.5CM and say, "tactical class". You're stuck in the open class. I shoot my .223rem in the open class to keep my tactical scores unpolluted by bad scores when I know the day is going to be rough. Call me a sandbagger if you like. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ballisticxlr:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
... Would love to hear him answer the same question I ask all 308 guys. Why doesn't anyone use it in open competitions? Only people that use it shoot in matches that require it save a few that make you choose between 308 and 223. The long range match I like to shoot at scores for tac class, open class and overall. That means you can say, "open class", shoot a .308 and get scored in the open class. You just can't bring a 6.5CM and say, "tactical class". You're stuck in the open class. I shoot my .223rem in the open class to keep my tactical scores unpolluted by bad scores when I know the day is going to be rough. Call me a sandbagger if you like. That's great for you but I feel like you pretty much agree that the 308 and 223 are uncompetitive. There are lots of reasons to like 308 but when looking at the creedmoor specifically I think a lot of the same apply to it now. I would like to see a poll at a big match asking if they would rather shoot a custom high quality 308 or a off the shelf savage, howa, or the like chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I know you mentioned money racers and those exist in every game or sport but the winners would still be the winners even if they spent a little less. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/26/2016 6:19:41 PM EDT
[#26]
The 6mm, 6.6 and 7mm rifles may be best for long range but its cool seeing a 308 pawn those guys in a rare event. The shit eating grin is priceless.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2016 5:50:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE: That's great for you but I feel like you pretty much agree that the 308 and 223 are uncompetitive. There are lots of reasons to like 308 but when looking at the creedmoor specifically I think a lot of the same apply to it now. I would like to see a poll at a big match asking if they would rather shoot a custom high quality 308 or a off the shelf savage, howa, or the like chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I know you mentioned money racers and those exist in every game or sport but the winners would still be the winners even if they spent a little less. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2016 7:42:21 PM EDT
[#28]
My choice was not based on opinion but personal experience.
I moved from 308 to 6.5x47 and now 6x47L. The 6x47L will do everything I want...shoot benchrest, long range, varmints, and I could even take it big game hunting if I was into that. For a while I had a 6mm Remington and so why switch? The 6x47L is just so much easier to load for and gives me more options. The 6.5x55 never really took off here and requires a long action. The 6.5CM/6.5x47 not only give you an option for a short action, it also gives you lots of room for playing with longer bullets or OAL. It is also more efficient. I see the 308 fans have chimed in which is great. If the caliber works for them then keep shootin! 
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TN, USA
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Posted: 6/27/2016 8:29:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
I would like to see a poll at a big match asking if they would rather shoot a custom high quality 308 or a off the shelf savage, howa, or the like chambered in 6.5 creedmoor. I know you mentioned money racers and those exist in every game or sport but the winners would still be the winners even if they spent a little less. if i could pick 10 howas off the shelf and find one that was 1/2 moa then replace the trigger and modify the stock to fit me, then i'd pick it over a custom 308. if i really have to shoot it out of the box with no changes, then i'd pick the 308 |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:25:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
As I scroll down through my FB feed trying to avoid all the political talk, I come across this article first: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/ Basically the 6.5 family can't ballistically do anything the 100 year old 6.5X55 can't do and doesn't out peform the 308 until past 600 yards. Scroll down further past pictures of friends' kids and dogs and find this article: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308 Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Why is anyone shooting 308? Comercial availability of guns and ammo. It's plenty for 99.999% of shooters. |
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Posted: 6/27/2016 10:49:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
I'm in the same boat, still shooting 308. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
Originally Posted By Spooky130:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Because that's the caliber I have... It's bought and paid for so there's that. I don't get to shoot much beyond 500 yards so there's that too. I'm in the same boat, still shooting 308. Oddly enough, when I use the cute little dials on my scope, I know exactly where my bullet is gonna go. And it still works well. Tmk shows that bullet design is still improving. Txl |
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Posted: 6/28/2016 3:57:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RUM]
[#32]
I'm still not convinced that the 6.5 kills as well. No argument about the ballistics, 6.5 wins hands down. From what I've seen the 308 kills better.
Longer barrels really help the 6.5s Competition breeds innovation but if you're objective is to drop animals consistently your 6.5 better be fast |
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Posted: 6/28/2016 5:17:04 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RUM:
I'm still not convinced that the 6.5 kills as well. No argument about the ballistics, 6.5 wins hands down. From what I've seen the 308 kills better. Longer barrels really help the 6.5s Competition breeds innovation but if you're objective is to drop animals consistently your 6.5 better be fast A good friend of mine is an avid hunter, besides hunting in OH, WV and PA regularly, he's gone to Canada a few times and even to Europe. He always extols the terminal ballistics of his 260 Rem and says for deer size game he uses it over all his other traditional caliber rifles. He even shot an ostrich with it in TX. I guess they are hard to bring down and the 260 worked very well on it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2016 5:38:20 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
A good friend of mine is an avid hunter, besides hunting in OH, WV and PA regularly, he's gone to Canada a few times and even to Europe. He always extols the terminal ballistics of his 260 Rem and says for deer size game he uses it over all his other traditional caliber rifles. He even shot an ostrich with it in TX. I guess they are hard to bring down and the 260 worked very well on it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
Originally Posted By RUM:
I'm still not convinced that the 6.5 kills as well. No argument about the ballistics, 6.5 wins hands down. From what I've seen the 308 kills better. Longer barrels really help the 6.5s Competition breeds innovation but if you're objective is to drop animals consistently your 6.5 better be fast A good friend of mine is an avid hunter, besides hunting in OH, WV and PA regularly, he's gone to Canada a few times and even to Europe. He always extols the terminal ballistics of his 260 Rem and says for deer size game he uses it over all his other traditional caliber rifles. He even shot an ostrich with it in TX. I guess they are hard to bring down and the 260 worked very well on it. I come from the land of big walking sticks. Most people considered 300 win mag a minimum in case yogi crashed the party. But after talkin to numerous old timers and people from across the pond with countless stories of 6.5x55 killing just about everything that walks I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Posted: 6/28/2016 8:14:09 PM EDT
[#35]
None of the above-
.300 Winchester Magnum for the win. No worries of being outranged unless you meet .338 Lapua or 50 BMG. Yes, I am old school but it works. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2016 11:14:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By sigman68:
The 6.5x55 never really took off here and requires a long action. Not entirely true. It does not "require" a LA, but will perform better out of a LA than a SA. There are folks stuffing that bastard into SA's. |
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USA
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Posted: 6/28/2016 11:21:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RUM:
I'm still not convinced that the 6.5 kills as well. No argument about the ballistics, 6.5 wins hands down. From what I've seen the 308 kills better. Longer barrels really help the 6.5s Competition breeds innovation but if you're objective is to drop animals consistently your 6.5 better be fast I've seen the opposite. My .260 crushes animals. The kinetic energy at +500 yards distances beats the .308 damn near everytime. I believe Pat Sinclair has crushed every big game animal on the NA continent with his .260. Pat Sinclair Crushes with a .60' |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 6/29/2016 11:38:03 AM EDT
[#38]
As far as on game performance, 6.5 and 7mm's have a bit of a boost in one aspect of that, penetration. Longer more slender bullets penetrate deeper than fatter ones all else being equal. I won't say longer more slender bullets kill any dead-er or quicker but they do punch deeper for the velocity you push them at. Being able to push a relatively light bullet fast with low-ish recoil and still having deep penetrating bone breaking power is exactly what hunters need and want. My hunting rifles for the longest time were 6,6.5 and 7mm. Now they've all been converted to competition use. My one remaining hunting rifle of any utility is a .30-06 not because I wanted it but because one dropped in my lap almost for free which will help if I ever take up hunting again.
/flame suit on For my money the 6.5 loses out to 7mm on some very marginal grounds. .30cal works but like everything it's not perfect. /flame suit off Anyone else get a little bored of these Y vs. X battles? Pick your poison for the mission. That's how it's always worked. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/29/2016 2:42:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
The author of that TTAG article is so full of shit that I'd prefer to not dignify the garbage with a rebuttal. His statements about people getting to play "sniper" and all that were completely out of line. Are those shooting AR's all people playing tier 1 operator too? Guy is a fucking tool. He sounds like the guy with the $8000.00 stick shooting 7" groups at 100 yards that I shot next to a few months ago. I don't know why some people have to be that way. |
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Posted: 6/29/2016 2:59:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: GMZ]
[#40]
Relevant...
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Posted: 6/29/2016 10:18:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Iggyort]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
Originally Posted By NUCdt04:
Originally Posted By CLICKBANGBANG:
I'll be taking a 6.5 Creedmoor out to 600 yards on Thursday. I shoot my 308 to 700 all the time (have fun shooting!) being said my new rifle is a 6mm Yah. The 308 will do 700. But good thing you didn't try to go to 800. http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/kombayotch/Firearms%20Stuff/308_traj-1.jpg That's pretty funny given that last weekend I shot the Mid Atlantic Regional LR (1,000 Yard ) Championship with a .308.
The gun is a trued Remington action with a 26" Bartlein barrel. The ammo that I am using is 200 grain Berger Hybrid bullets with a muzzle velocity of 2375 fps. I needed 45 MOA on the gun and only about 4 MOA for wind given the 5-7 MPH wind coming out of SSE. Did I win ? Absolutely not, in fact I got crushed like a grape by the more experience F Class shooters using specialized .308 rifles with 30" barrels. Regardless of my finish, I was able to get 9s,10s and a handfull of Xs In F Class the 10 circle is 10" and X is 5". 
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UT, USA
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Posted: 6/30/2016 12:20:53 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
Not entirely true. It does not "require" a LA, but will perform better out of a LA than a SA. There are folks stuffing that bastard into SA's. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
Originally Posted By sigman68:
The 6.5x55 never really took off here and requires a long action. Not entirely true. It does not "require" a LA, but will perform better out of a LA than a SA. There are folks stuffing that bastard into SA's. LOL. Not sure why but okay. |
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Posted: 6/30/2016 12:29:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
As I scroll down through my FB feed trying to avoid all the political talk, I come across this article first: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/ Basically the 6.5 family can't ballistically do anything the 100 year old 6.5X55 can't do and doesn't out peform the 308 until past 600 yards. Scroll down further past pictures of friends' kids and dogs and find this article: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308 Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. I just read the article and it sounds like 30-06 apologists decrying the 308 all over again. Hey I get it, you like to shoot a 100 yr old cartridge out of a rifle thats 6ft long. Good for you. Get with the times. If you can do 90% of something for 60% of the cost, no one is going to turn that down. New rounds go into rifles that are smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to produce, and mag fed. There is a reason small arms design trended this way. |
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Posted: 7/6/2016 7:56:57 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
I've seen the opposite. My .260 crushes animals. The kinetic energy at +500 yards distances beats the .308 damn near everytime. I believe Pat Sinclair has crushed every big game animal on the NA continent with his .260. Pat Sinclair Crushes with a .60' Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FALex:
Originally Posted By RUM:
I'm still not convinced that the 6.5 kills as well. No argument about the ballistics, 6.5 wins hands down. From what I've seen the 308 kills better. Longer barrels really help the 6.5s Competition breeds innovation but if you're objective is to drop animals consistently your 6.5 better be fast I've seen the opposite. My .260 crushes animals. The kinetic energy at +500 yards distances beats the .308 damn near everytime. I believe Pat Sinclair has crushed every big game animal on the NA continent with his .260. Pat Sinclair Crushes with a .60' What barrel length? |
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Posted: 7/7/2016 6:07:38 AM EDT
[#45]
Problem with the .308 is people don't use the right bullet for long range, get with the program and use 215s and 230s. With a brake a hundred 230s per session is no problem.
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Posted: 7/23/2016 9:43:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
As I scroll down through my FB feed trying to avoid all the political talk, I come across this article first: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/ Basically the 6.5 family can't ballistically do anything the 100 year old 6.5X55 can't do and doesn't out peform the 308 until past 600 yards. Scroll down further past pictures of friends' kids and dogs and find this article: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308 Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Availability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 11:14:18 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryAvailability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? I am ready to make the switch. Like you pointed out, the 308 was great to learn how to load and how to develop loads, etc. I have about 300 loaded rounds and another 1000 rounds of components to use, then I think I am going to have my rifle re-barreled in 260 Rem. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 8:49:59 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
I am ready to make the switch. Like you pointed out, the 308 was great to learn how to load and how to develop loads, etc. I have about 300 loaded rounds and another 1000 rounds of components to use, then I think I am going to have my rifle re-barreled in 260 Rem. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ironmaker:
Availability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? I am ready to make the switch. Like you pointed out, the 308 was great to learn how to load and how to develop loads, etc. I have about 300 loaded rounds and another 1000 rounds of components to use, then I think I am going to have my rifle re-barreled in 260 Rem. Do it! I jumped into precision shooting/reloading in both the 308 and 260 Rem simultaneously and I am much more excited about doing 260 stuff. Less recoil, better long range performance, and good energy on target if needed. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bionic589:
Do it! I jumped into precision shooting/reloading in both the 308 and 260 Rem simultaneously and I am much more excited about doing 260 stuff. Less recoil, better long range performance, and good energy on target if needed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bionic589:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
Availability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? I am ready to make the switch. Like you pointed out, the 308 was great to learn how to load and how to develop loads, etc. I have about 300 loaded rounds and another 1000 rounds of components to use, then I think I am going to have my rifle re-barreled in 260 Rem. Do it! I jumped into precision shooting/reloading in both the 308 and 260 Rem simultaneously and I am much more excited about doing 260 stuff. Less recoil, better long range performance, and good energy on target if needed. I know. I have sunk cost and effort into 1000 pieces of brass, 175 gr TMK bullets and 5 lbs of R15. Plus, right now I've spent enough money on gun stuff this summer and shouldn't really dump another $900 to have SAC put a Bartlein barrel on my 700. |
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Posted: 7/23/2016 9:10:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 223Rem:
Availability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 223Rem:
Originally Posted By Ironmaker:
As I scroll down through my FB feed trying to avoid all the political talk, I come across this article first: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/06/josh-wayner/the-truth-about-6-5mm-ammo/ Basically the 6.5 family can't ballistically do anything the 100 year old 6.5X55 can't do and doesn't out peform the 308 until past 600 yards. Scroll down further past pictures of friends' kids and dogs and find this article: http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1496625-hello-2015-now-replace-your-308 Basically, why is anyone still shooting 308. Availability, commonality, versatility and the shit ton of evidence of it's effectiveness in the field (two and four legged quarry alike). For the average shooter, the .308 will offer more cartridge than they will ever be able to master. Until your skill set is developed shooting past the comparable threshold barrier, what's the point? the point is that they're better in just about every measurable way. In the real world that can make up for a little skill gap between which is why super fast magnums have always been popular for hunting. My real world example was when I went shooting with a friend and he had his 284 and I my 308. After about 600ish yards I stirring dropping more due to bad wind calls and he kept hitting. At 850 I couldn't consistently hit the gong but he made it out to 1000 several times. We were big very new long range shooters trying out long range shooting. His 284 also put more of a hurt on the plate. |
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