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Posted: 12/3/2015 5:50:11 AM EDT
I don't even own a 308 as I am a 260 shooter, but luck or not this was a pretty amazing shot... Same guy apparently hit a milk jug at 1000 yards with a 223 on the first shot in some pretty terrible wind conditions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X232rB_Cj8g |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2015 1:28:38 PM EDT
[#1]
An amazingly lucky shot. So what. .30cal still sucks.
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Posted: 12/3/2015 5:44:14 PM EDT
[#2]
What a world we live in...guy hits a milk jug from over 1500 yards with an inferior caliber and the only comment is negative
Here is the video of the same guy hitting a milk jug at 1000 yards with a 223 on the first shot. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Fp239bERs Never hurts to be a little lucky, but even being close in those conditions with a 223 or a 308 on the first shot is damn good shooting. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2015 9:27:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Its not luck.
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TN, USA
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Posted: 12/3/2015 11:44:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Its not luck. it was all luck. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 1:51:10 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
it was all luck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
Originally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Its not luck. it was all luck. 
Hitting a target that small at that range with that cartridge with that number of shots is called skill, not luck. Do you know how badly a .308 is affected by wind at that distance? Yeah, I'm sure it's luck and not careful consideration of the environmental variables. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 5:17:30 AM EDT
[#6]
***CORRECTION IT IS NOT THE SAME GUY IN BOTH VIDEOS***
I would have to say it was a combination of skill and luck in both cases. I know in the 2nd video with the 223 they said that guy had been spotting for everyone making attempts that day. So if you knew anything about the rounds the other people were using judging by the dope they were using and where the impacts were you could get a pretty good idea of what the wind was doing before you made your attempt. Of course with that much wind using a 223 at that distance any little change along the flight path is going to cause a miss so yes a little luck never hurts. With the 308 guy just getting close on the first shot at that distance takes skill, but actually making the hit took a little luck as well. The guy said as much during his interview after the shot. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 10:11:22 AM EDT
[#7]
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." Seneca.
The shooter's ability to guess correctly at corrections is a demonstration of his understanding of the fundamentals. If he had just sat down with an unknown weapon, with no experience, then I'd tip the balance to the luck side. Good on him / them! |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 12/4/2015 10:54:11 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Hitting a target that small at that range with that cartridge with that number of shots is called skill, not luck. Do you know how badly a .308 is affected by wind at that distance? Yeah, I'm sure it's luck and not careful consideration of the environmental variables. you have no idea what you're talking about. giving his setup the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's using a fairly high BC 80g SMK, at 1000 yards, a 1 mph difference in wind at 1000 yards is 12.5", which is wider than a milk jug. nobody has the skill to call wind to +/- 0.25 mph required to stay on a milk jug in those kinds of winds at that distance. and it's way way worse for the 308 at 1500. You can carefully consider the environmental variables all you want, but unless you have sensors along the path of the bullet, you're really just guessing. Watching what the other shooters do will get you close, but the trajectory of the 223 is going to be WAY higher than that of the 338lm that shot before him, so it's not experiencing the same winds, and from the description, it sounds like the winds were changing a lot anyway. so it's an educated guess, but really all luck. run litz' WEZ analysis on those numbers and see how many shots would be on a milk jug. the answer will be NOT MANY which makes it all luck. |
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Posted: 12/4/2015 11:26:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: SteelonSteel]
[#9]
This is arfcom get both.
Without skill and knowledge the chance if hitting it is dumb luck and almost no chance of hitting it. I think most guns and ammo combinations at that distance may be challenged by that small of a target. So the fact that the bullet stayed in the center of the error cone and struck the target is a bit of luck. That's my two cents. If a guy can consistently come back and hit a 8x12" target at that distance with a first round hit in shitty winds I am suitably impressed. ETA- I was a school trained 0331 in my first MOS so I always think about that cone of fire and the probability of a hit. |
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Posted: 12/6/2015 2:07:26 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
you have no idea what you're talking about. giving his setup the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's using a fairly high BC 80g SMK, at 1000 yards, a 1 mph difference in wind at 1000 yards is 12.5", which is wider than a milk jug. nobody has the skill to call wind to +/- 0.25 mph required to stay on a milk jug in those kinds of winds at that distance. and it's way way worse for the 308 at 1500. You can carefully consider the environmental variables all you want, but unless you have sensors along the path of the bullet, you're really just guessing. Watching what the other shooters do will get you close, but the trajectory of the 223 is going to be WAY higher than that of the 338lm that shot before him, so it's not experiencing the same winds, and from the description, it sounds like the winds were changing a lot anyway. so it's an educated guess, but really all luck. run litz' WEZ analysis on those numbers and see how many shots would be on a milk jug. the answer will be NOT MANY which makes it all luck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
Originally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Hitting a target that small at that range with that cartridge with that number of shots is called skill, not luck. Do you know how badly a .308 is affected by wind at that distance? Yeah, I'm sure it's luck and not careful consideration of the environmental variables. you have no idea what you're talking about. giving his setup the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's using a fairly high BC 80g SMK, at 1000 yards, a 1 mph difference in wind at 1000 yards is 12.5", which is wider than a milk jug. nobody has the skill to call wind to +/- 0.25 mph required to stay on a milk jug in those kinds of winds at that distance. and it's way way worse for the 308 at 1500. You can carefully consider the environmental variables all you want, but unless you have sensors along the path of the bullet, you're really just guessing. Watching what the other shooters do will get you close, but the trajectory of the 223 is going to be WAY higher than that of the 338lm that shot before him, so it's not experiencing the same winds, and from the description, it sounds like the winds were changing a lot anyway. so it's an educated guess, but really all luck. run litz' WEZ analysis on those numbers and see how many shots would be on a milk jug. the answer will be NOT MANY which makes it all luck. Right, he did something difficult so it's luck. Also, .223 and .308 are different cartridges, but I'm sure you knew that already. 
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Posted: 12/6/2015 4:35:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Right, he did something difficult so it's luck. Also, .223 and .308 are different cartridges, but I'm sure you knew that already. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Originally Posted By taliv:
Originally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Hitting a target that small at that range with that cartridge with that number of shots is called skill, not luck. Do you know how badly a .308 is affected by wind at that distance? Yeah, I'm sure it's luck and not careful consideration of the environmental variables. you have no idea what you're talking about. giving his setup the benefit of the doubt and assuming he's using a fairly high BC 80g SMK, at 1000 yards, a 1 mph difference in wind at 1000 yards is 12.5", which is wider than a milk jug. nobody has the skill to call wind to +/- 0.25 mph required to stay on a milk jug in those kinds of winds at that distance. and it's way way worse for the 308 at 1500. You can carefully consider the environmental variables all you want, but unless you have sensors along the path of the bullet, you're really just guessing. Watching what the other shooters do will get you close, but the trajectory of the 223 is going to be WAY higher than that of the 338lm that shot before him, so it's not experiencing the same winds, and from the description, it sounds like the winds were changing a lot anyway. so it's an educated guess, but really all luck. run litz' WEZ analysis on those numbers and see how many shots would be on a milk jug. the answer will be NOT MANY which makes it all luck. Right, he did something difficult so it's luck. Also, .223 and .308 are different cartridges, but I'm sure you knew that already. My 90gr smks out of my 18"AR are 2600 fps, my.308s 175gr SMKs are 2600fps the .223 bullet has a higher BC than the 175, as far as external ballistics(not terminal) is concerned they are the same(actually the .223 is a bit better) At 1000 yards with a 5mph wind and excellent wind reading, the 90gr .223 is 16% on a milk jug, the 175gr .308 is 14.4% . If I go to the best bullet for .308 like a 215 or 230gr Hybrid, it only raises the odds to 25% at 1000 Here is the WEZ for 1518yds with Barnes 175grMBs I used 2800fps but I doubt he is getting that out of a 24" . I used 24in/Hg(6000ft), 30° though it looks more like 5°, 20% humidity and a 5mph wind. I was generous with the wind reading, SD and moa. 6% chance of hitting that. 
BTW: I am not a .308 hater, I built my .308 to shoot 215gr and 230gr Hybrids in hopes of making 25%(or maybe better) hits at 3/4 of a mile(1320yds) on a 100% silhouette. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 1/21/2016 11:03:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Those are both great shots.
I still like my 223 better than a 308  |
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Posted: 1/23/2016 10:31:27 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
it was all luck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
Originally Posted By MitchAlsup:
Its not luck. it was all luck. Still have to call the wind my friend !!! 
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Posted: 1/23/2016 11:05:19 AM EDT
[#14]
What kind of idiot doesn't like .308?
I'll tell you what kind.... The Jelly kind!!!
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Posted: 3/2/2017 10:31:45 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ballisticxlr:
An amazingly lucky shot. So what. .30cal still sucks. Guess how we know you are a youngster who knows everything... |
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Posted: 3/2/2017 3:18:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
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Posted: 3/3/2017 10:37:18 AM EDT
[#17]
Really enjoy reading folks selling there 308's for something better. There is no one caliber that's does it all. 308 has a purpose just like 223 or 6.5cm does. But please keep selling those 308's. 308 parts keep getting less expensive every day. More for us who would never sell our 308's.
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:54:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ballisticxlr:
An amazingly lucky shot. So what. .30cal still sucks. I cannot get a lucky shot like that with any caliber. Someone who know's how to shoot get's a shot like that. .308 does not suck. |
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Posted: 3/3/2017 11:55:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taliv:
it was all luck. |
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Posted: 3/6/2017 3:03:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GSL:
Prove it. 22" vert. error from velocity ES of 25 26" spin drift 7" coriolis drift 8" best groups at that range with .5moa setup 20" vert error from 2%BC variation Milk jug is about 7" x 9" |
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USA
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Posted: 3/6/2017 3:33:20 PM EDT
[#21]
ITT we separate science from broscience, and those who shoot their gear to its limits from those who dont.
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Posted: 3/7/2017 9:13:56 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
19" drift per mph of wind. 22" vert. error from velocity ES of 25 26" spin drift 7" coriolis drift 8" best groups at that range with .5moa setup 20" vert error from 2%BC variation Milk jug is about 7" x 9" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Prove it. 22" vert. error from velocity ES of 25 26" spin drift 7" coriolis drift 8" best groups at that range with .5moa setup 20" vert error from 2%BC variation Milk jug is about 7" x 9" Don't muddy up the opinion waters with numbers!
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Posted: 3/9/2017 6:59:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
19" drift per mph of wind. 22" vert. error from velocity ES of 25 26" spin drift 7" coriolis drift 8" best groups at that range with .5moa setup 20" vert error from 2%BC variation Milk jug is about 7" x 9" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By GSL:
Prove it. 22" vert. error from velocity ES of 25 26" spin drift 7" coriolis drift 8" best groups at that range with .5moa setup 20" vert error from 2%BC variation Milk jug is about 7" x 9" TL;DR: Skill puts all of those x marks into the picture. Luck put some of them on the milk jug. |
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Posted: 3/9/2017 10:22:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Any caliber would need luck to put it into that jug then.
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Posted: 3/10/2017 10:55:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: popnfresh]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joe731:
TL;DR: Skill puts all of those x marks into the picture. Luck put some of them on the milk jug. Most of those variables can be measured and compensated for. When the variables that cannot be measured make for a spread that is larger than the target, that is when luck comes into play. Between MV ES and BC variations he has a possibility of being 15" over and 15" under that jug, all the skill in the world wont fix that fact. More consistent bullets and very tight ESs will help though. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 3/13/2017 12:24:40 AM EDT
[#26]
Lowlight over on SH is shooting some new 308 bullets at 1,500yds and getting repeat hits on standard sized steel targets.
308 with always be around and with new bullet technology, it will keep it in the game. |
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Posted: 3/13/2017 12:39:13 AM EDT
[#27]
That was an awesome shot!
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Posted: 3/17/2017 5:04:35 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
Hitting a target that small at that range with that cartridge with that number of shots is called skill, not luck. I once shot a Cottonmouth in the head, swimming in a pond at over 50 yards with a Glock 17 with my family watching. They thought I was a good shot, I know it was just luck. |
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Posted: 3/18/2017 12:54:07 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Regency:
Lowlight over on SH is shooting some new 308 bullets at 1,500yds and getting repeat hits on standard sized steel targets. 308 with always be around and with new bullet technology, it will keep it in the game. |
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