User Panel
Posted: 11/15/2014 5:13:37 PM EDT
I am getting a 50cal itch.
On one hand I want something that's accurate, but on the other hand buying a single shot or mag fed rifle doesn't seem nearly as fun as a belt fed. So, I've been looking at a semi-auto m2hb then looking into seeing what can be done about accuracy. The problem is there are very few resources available to read about accuracy. Some say with milsurp you're looking at 2-3moa, and from my understanding, 50cal milsurp is pretty poor on tolerances. So if that was true I could likely work on handloads and get it to or below 1moa which is what I'm looking for. Any input would be appreciated. |
|
|
[#1]
For what it's worth the M2 never was designed to be an accurate gun. It spreads a cone of fire in the direction it's aimed.
As far as it being used to 'snipe', don't and never will beleive it |
|
|
[Last Edit: Sinister]
[#2]
|
|
|
[#3]
Originally Posted By Sinister:
24th Infantry Division, Intelligence and Reconnaissance Platoon, Korean War. http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/M2Sniper.jpg View Quote And a guy I went to church with said he made multiple hits on nk infantry with single shot firing. Guys I've talked to swear they CAN be accurate. Carlos hathcock hit a nva at 2500yds with one. |
|
|
[#4]
Originally Posted By Shockergd:
And a guy I went to church with said he made multiple hits on nk infantry with single shot firing. Guys I've talked to swear they CAN be accurate. Carlos hathcock hit a nva at 2500yds with one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Originally Posted By Sinister:
24th Infantry Division, Intelligence and Reconnaissance Platoon, Korean War. http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/M2Sniper.jpg And a guy I went to church with said he made multiple hits on nk infantry with single shot firing. Guys I've talked to swear they CAN be accurate. Carlos hathcock hit a nva at 2500yds with one. Hathcock also made that shot after shooting a kids bike out from under him and subsequently shooting the kid (both on purpose), in the ~1,300 range I believe. I don't know if I would buy one to snipe with but it will put bullets where they belong more often than not. If you don't know what you are doing with one they do have a tendency to blow the feed cover off and into your face so make sure you read/follow the instructions. |
|
|
[#5]
Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Hathcock also made that shot after shooting a kids bike out from under him and subsequently shooting the kid (both on purpose), in the ~1,300 range I believe. I don't know if I would buy one to snipe with but it will put bullets where they belong more often than not. If you don't know what you are doing with one they do have a tendency to blow the feed cover off and into your face so make sure you read/follow the instructions. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By sea2summit:
Originally Posted By Shockergd:
Originally Posted By Sinister:
24th Infantry Division, Intelligence and Reconnaissance Platoon, Korean War. http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p22/StaceyC123/M2Sniper.jpg And a guy I went to church with said he made multiple hits on nk infantry with single shot firing. Guys I've talked to swear they CAN be accurate. Carlos hathcock hit a nva at 2500yds with one. Hathcock also made that shot after shooting a kids bike out from under him and subsequently shooting the kid (both on purpose), in the ~1,300 range I believe. I don't know if I would buy one to snipe with but it will put bullets where they belong more often than not. If you don't know what you are doing with one they do have a tendency to blow the feed cover off and into your face so make sure you read/follow the instructions. The M2 is not an accurate weapon system as compared to the likes of a bolt action rifle like a 338, 300 winmag or 308. Yes Hathcock made those shots but due to the the inherent inaccuracy of that weapon system, could not be repeated consistently. It had nothing to do with his skill or lack there of, it was just the M2 in general. Those pictures above of scopes on M2's are purely for seeing targets at a distance, not for making one round hits. You have to remember that the max effective range of the M2 is 1800 meters. That's over a mile and if you are going to shoot even half that, you need something to see out that far, but it isn't about zeroing a scope and taking one round shots. |
|
NRA Law Enforcement Handgun Instructor
NRA Law Enforcement Shotgun Instructor NRA Law Enforcement Patrol Rifle Instructor US Army Sniper School |
[#6]
I own a Barrett M82A1, a Robar and a belt fed, all .50. The Belt fed is by far the least accurate, but the M82 isn't far behind. We had the Marine Corps Armorers at my facility for a match and I brought up the issue of the inaccuracy of the M82A1. They asked how many rounds I had down the barrel. I told them about 200 and they laughed and said the weapon didn't wear in until 2000 rounds, not with me shooting it. The Robar is by far the most accurate, shooting sub MOA
Unless you can drive up to your shooting position at the range, I don't recommend the belt fed. Carlos Hathcock was at the US SWAT championship in Orlando Florida in the early 80's. I ran into him at the Hotel bar and asked him about the .50 shot where he killed the guy on the bike. I asked what his ratio of hit to misses was and he laughed and said, "no one wants to hear about misses". The Barrett was never designed as an anti personnel weapon, it just morphed into one. You put enough lead into the air and some unfortunate person is going to run into something. When someone says they made some great shot ask them how many it took to walk the rounds in, or if they could do it cold the next day. |
|
|
[#7]
I never knew of a MA2 50 blowing off the feed cover, not saying that it does not happen. I am very much aware of a MA2 50 blowing downward due to the timeing not being adjusted correctly,
this seldom caused injuries when mounted on a tripod, but on a truck or other mount with the gunner being in a standing position, it could cause leg injuries. If it is your gun, make sure that timming and head space are adjusted correctly before fireing. This can be easly learned and gauges should always be with the gun. enjoy |
|
|
[#8]
Originally Posted By SGTDUSMC:
I never knew of a MA2 50 blowing off the feed cover, not saying that it does not happen. I am very much aware of a MA2 50 blowing downward due to the timeing not being adjusted correctly, this seldom caused injuries when mounted on a tripod, but on a truck or other mount with the gunner being in a standing position, it could cause leg injuries. If it is your gun, make sure that timming and head space are adjusted correctly before fireing. This can be easly learned and gauges should always be with the gun. enjoy View Quote |
|
|
[#9]
Under the right circumstances, you can accurize semi-auto weapons in a variety of ways. Mcbride talks about it in "A Rifleman Went to War"...how their MG sections found certain setups wither certain lots of ammo, to be better than others. There were "tricks of the trade" so to speak, that allowed them to increase or decrease accuracy when needed.
In terms of an M2, consistency and rigidity...tripod being absolutely locked down, rigid shot to shot, T&E mech being locked, ammo that is consistent, barrel that headspaces perfectly and is not damaged or worn, bolt that is tight, and so on. Even then...it's not a precision weapon...but you can often walk rounds onto a pretty small space if you have the right setup and time to do it. I've walked rounds all over a tank with a M2 at 1700m. It wasn't easy but you could see the impacts through glass and make very minor adjustments to correct POI. Pressure on the spade to one side would move the POI about the length of the hull. I got it down to where I could reliably hit the same place on the turret (think pizza box sized area) over and over again if I gently pressed the shot off and didn't disrupt the gun in any other way. That was with a spotter in broad daylight and unlimited time to do it... YMMV |
|
|
[#10]
Originally Posted By Shockergd:
I am getting a 50cal itch. On one hand I want something that's accurate, but on the other hand buying a single shot or mag fed rifle doesn't seem nearly as fun as a belt fed. So, I've been looking at a semi-auto m2hb then looking into seeing what can be done about accuracy. The problem is there are very few resources available to read about accuracy. Some say with milsurp you're looking at 2-3moa, and from my understanding, 50cal milsurp is pretty poor on tolerances. So if that was true I could likely work on handloads and get it to or below 1moa which is what I'm looking for. Any input would be appreciated. View Quote I'm also not sure what kind of precision firing position you could manage with the m2hb dimensions. |
|
|
[Last Edit: freerider04]
[#11]
Originally Posted By BarrettBoy: I'm skeptical that the m2hb can do sub moa. I'm also not sure what kind of precision firing position you could manage with the m2hb dimensions. View Quote It sure ain't fun dragging it up 5 flights |
|
|
[#12]
Weren't M2 barrels adapted for use on bolt actions by the early precision .50 shooters?
|
|
|
[#13]
If you're going to be spending that kind of money, look at the Serbu BFG-50A semi. You can buy the tools from them to swap the barrels, you can go from the stock barrel to a match barrel in a few minutes.
I think they also offer a match trigger but you'll have to contact them for more info on that. Plus if you call, the owner Mark Serbu will more than likely answer the phone. Talk to him and ask all the questions about the rifle that you can think of. |
|
|
[#14]
The barrel is quite loose in the barrel support. Some older ones had bronze bushings in the barrel supports, so maybe those could be made to fit tighter and increase the accuracy potential.
|
|
|
[#15]
2-3 seems to be about what i have gotten with them
|
|
[url=https://www.ar15.com/forums/equipment-exchange/WTB-list-of-various-things-to-be-updated-often-also-links-to-my-FS-lists-updated-3-27-/130-1973658/]Click here to see mt WTB list and links to my FS lists[/url]
|
[#16]
Originally Posted By brownbomber: The barrel is quite loose in the barrel support. Some older ones had bronze bushings in the barrel supports, so maybe those could be made to fit tighter and increase the accuracy potential. View Quote There is also a bushing that is screwed into receiver. Years ago the same people that make the KMP 50 BMG stuff made said bushing out of brass( I bought one). The bore of it was only .010 bigger than the barrel as opposed to the .060 of the USGI bushing. I don't know if they still make it but it did improve groups. |
|
|
[#17]
Any ody know what an M2 costs? I'd have to imagine there aren't many out there for civilians to buy, that's gotta be a pretty nice car worth of money I would think
|
|
|
[#18]
If you want an F/A M2, think about $50K+!
You can buy/find kits out there to build your own semi, if you do it, it will be under $10K. If you have a reputable company do it like CWA, it will be a little north of $10K. Check out Central Wisconsin Armory, Ed does great work, comes highly recommended and will put a .50 smile on your face! Besides building customers guns, they also do their own M2's and M3's. |
|
|
[#19]
Originally Posted By MADUCE: I own a Barrett M82A1, a Robar and a belt fed, all .50. The Belt fed is by far the least accurate, but the M82 isn't far behind. We had the Marine Corps Armorers at my facility for a match and I brought up the issue of the inaccuracy of the M82A1. They asked how many rounds I had down the barrel. I told them about 200 and they laughed and said the weapon didn't wear in until 2000 rounds, not with me shooting it. The Robar is by far the most accurate, shooting sub MOA Unless you can drive up to your shooting position at the range, I don't recommend the belt fed. Carlos Hathcock was at the US SWAT championship in Orlando Florida in the early 80's. I ran into him at the Hotel bar and asked him about the .50 shot where he killed the guy on the bike. I asked what his ratio of hit to misses was and he laughed and said, "no one wants to hear about misses". The Barrett was never designed as an anti personnel weapon, it just morphed into one. You put enough lead into the air and some unfortunate person is going to run into something. When someone says they made some great shot ask them how many it took to walk the rounds in, or if they could do it cold the next day. View Quote intewesting |
|
Ready for the boogafloo
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.