Having just finished up my AR build, I am wanting to move onto another project, a long range rifle.

I am new to long range shooting, not knowing how often I will do it, I do not want to build a $1500-$2000+ rifle. I am looking into the Remington 700 system for this build due to the relatively low cost and market support. My goal is to be able to shoot 1000yards as I cant shoot much further living in Ohio. The furthest I think I'd try taking it is maybe 1,320 (3/4 Mile). I will be using a stock barrel and action at first and I if I enjoy it and can use it it enough to justify spending more I will. I will probably purchase or adjust the trigger to a 2-2.5lb pull.

I am going to go with a Vortex Scope, unsure of which one just yet. I have chose them because they seem to be a good budget piece of glass with an excellent warranty. If I get more into long range shooting, I would then probably spend more money on a better scope.

Where I am torn is the caliber I want to use. I like the power of the .300 Win Mag, but the cost and availability of the .308 is a bit better. My question is with practice and learned skill can the .308 accomplish my goals?

Thanks for all the advice and help!

I built a really nice precision. 308 ar.  Love the rifle.  But if distance is what u want and u want to go past 1000 yards, u will need to start getting into magnum cartiges. The 308 CAN get to 1000 but it's going to be easier with a 300wm.

Definitely 300WM at that range.

You are going to have a hulluva time (long barrel, precision hand loading, etc.) keeping your projectiles above sonic (1.2M or so) beyond 1,000m with .308.

Are you really going to be shooting 1000-1300yds, or mostly 800 or less?  I had to be honest with myself when buying a precision rifle... the majority of my shooting is 600 or less and I only have the opportunity to shoot up to 1k once a month, so I went with .308.  Depending on your experience level, you could potentially shoot out the barrel on a .300 win mag by the time you've gotten enough practice/training to get out to 1k with any regularity.  In that instance a .308 might be more practical (like it was for me).

Good answer and pretty much why I went 308.

If I get that good with a 308 then maybe someday.

This what I am starting to conclude. I will likely now build a .308 and try to get it out to 800+ once I get good at this I will build something to go out further maybe .300 win mag or .338 Thanks for the advice, time to start building!

.30 caliber bullets -- regardless of how much powder you spin 'em up with -- do not have the ballistic properties of 6.5mm bullets.

If you want a sore shoulder, that's one thing.  If you want to shoot 1000 yards and be successful, then the 6.5 is what you want.  I have a .260 Remington, but the Creedmore, or Lapua, or even the Swede will do.

Remington guns are crap.  I have a 5R that groups 1.5 moa on a good day.

My Savage in .260 will group sub-minute of angle at 1000 yards all day long.

I've shot my .260 at 1200 yards and bullets are still super-sonic.  And, I don't use heavy powder charges.  The 6.5mm bullets are very, very good at retaining whatever velocity you impart to them.

Summary:

Remington: NO.  Savage: YES.
.30 Caliber: NO.  6.5 mm: YES.

You can thank me later.

INB4 akethan.



 

You should consider getting a 6.5 Creedmoor or a 260 remington. Both will get you to 1000 yards and beyond. They will have less drop and have less wind drift then a 308 would.  For target shooting the 6.5 creedmoor is hard to beat. As for the scope I think the vortex PST 4-16 with a first focal plane is a good choice.  Get a 20 moa base and also some nice scope rings. I like the seekins precision base and rings.

I'm kinda late to the party here but this post kind of irked me. if you would have said .308 I would have agreed with you, but you had to throw 300wm or even 300rum under the bus with that first sentence. show me what 6.5 bullet you use that's ballistically superior to the 230gr Berger's I use, or even the 208 AMAX.
ETA: as far as recoil goes my braked 300wm kicks no worse then any .308 I've owned, I could shoot it all day without a sore shoulder.

He is either a wind reading master, only shoots in perfect conditions, or....

308  loaded properly is a 1250 yard capable load.
7-08 loaded properly is a 1450 yard capable load.
260  loaded properly is a 1500 yard capable load.
243  loaded properly is a 1450 yard capable load.
300WM loaded properly is a 1750 yard capable load.

I can reload 308 to FGMM specs at $0.36 from my stash, but if I use modern prices it comes in at $0.43.
260 and 243 will come in a couple of cents lower.
300WM will come in $0.10-$0.15 more, plus case cost will be double on the 300WM than it is on 308/260/243.

When I reload 308 (155 Scenars at 2925fps) I get about 30 reloads per case, so the case cost is lower than $0.02 per case per round.

Of the above cartridges, were I looking to add to my collection, I would choose a 260. Even when compared against the 6.5 Creedmoore--not that it is not a great round.....

I'm no professional, but my 300 is not fun after a box or so.

If you go that route you need a heavy gun with a good brake.

For that reason alone I would buy a 308 or something to burn though rounds with.  But I would look at other choices besides the 308 as others have said.

There is wisdom in this post.

Learning out to wring the best accuracy from a 300 WinMag can be punishing.  Between that and developing a long range load and learning to shoot it you could eat up 300-500 rounds of your barrel life or more.

I like my 300WinMag, certainly my goto long range gun over my 50BMG/toy, but it takes some adapting if your previous precision guns were semiautos.   Mine were a 14 pound JP Enterprises AR15 and an AR10.

First range session of testing handloads took some adjusting, free recoiling a rifle and getting in behind it same as you do a semi isnt q good idea.   About 40 rounds was all I could do that first day.   Collar bone looked like shit for a week.   Now I can do 60 rounds if I wanted and feel no pain and have been out to 800 yards with spectacular results.

But a 308 is a playful kitten by comparison.

When I put together my long range rifle a few years ago I went through the same dilemma. Read a ton online about the two cartridges and ended up going for the 300WM just because deep down I thought I would want that extra oomph.

Honestly though, I wish i just got the 308 instead. Personally I do find it difficult to shoot that rifle as well as it could be done because of the recoil. The rifle is a heavy remington 5R and I also have a cheek rest and limbsaver pad on there which made a huge difference in the recoil to it becoming a non issue. But still it is not as easy to shoot as I am sure a smaller caliber would be.

Finding a place to actually shoot out to 1000 yards is practically impossible in my part of the country. So I would have been much happier with the 308's cheaper ammo and easier handling. Plus I could hunt deer with it. The 300 might just be a tad overkill.

What about 7mm Mag?

Especially if Berger ever comes out with that 195 grain high BC bullet.

Despite some peoples math formulas and "what it should do" using incredible velocities, .308 is maxed out at 1000 yards as far as competition is concerned. Most .308's that don't have 30" barrels start to have problems with anything past 900 yards.

A lot of people run 20" .308's to great effect at 600 yards or less. I wouldn't consider anything shorter than a 27.5" to 28" barrel for a .308 1000 yard rifle. You need a minimum of 2550 fps muzzle velocity with 190 SMK's, at least 2600 fps with 175/180 SMK's. You need over 2900 fps with 155 grain SMK's. All of these loads are close to or at maximum with IMR-4064, Varget, RE-15 or N150.

Look at Gary Elisio's chassis system and a premium 1/10 or faster twist Bartlein or Broughton barrel. There is nothing wrong with a 30" or 32" medium weight Palma barrel for a dedicated 1000 yard rifle.

Master Class Stocks makes match winning long range rifles. Most of their work is done by Ken Warner and former National High Power Rifle Champion Carl Bernosky.

Sounds like you need a brake or suppressor on your 300, I could not shoot mine all day without the brake.

You realize that the 1k yard bench rest record is held by a .30 caliber now.

Mosquitoe farts will send the .308 3 mils off. 300WM will be in the reticle at 1000.

I couldn't do it with 308@ 1000, too many wind variables. #00 just plows through with ease

Wind variables,  Lol. Did'nt know anybody else on arfcom had windage.   I thought holding sub moa with a 16 inch 308 AR past a 1000 was the standard.

I'd also say you'd be better served with a .308, for no other reason is that it will make you a better marksman if you put the time into it.  I run .308's is PRs level events and I do it with factory ammo.  Sure...I'm in no danger of breaking the top 10 but I can proudly say that when I shoot against the best in the world I don't come in last place.  I've been asked countless times "why I run .308 when I can afford whatever I want" and the answer is simple...I could care less about making the PGA tour.  I simply enjoy the sport and I don't need trophies, plaques, or prizes, even though I've collected a few over the years.  A 7.62 round is hardly in danger of falling out of the sky at 1K yards.  About a month ago I needed some time away from the grind and did a 2-day class with W3PS that was co-instructed by Darrel Buell, Capt. of the US F-Class team.  Granted the rifle I ran (GAP HRT) is not your average rack grade rifle but I ran factory M118 through it out to 1K.  It was raining sideways and winds were around 7-gusting to 22.  Now I'm the 1st to admit that I'm no wind guru but Darrell can call wind like nothing I've ever seen.  I'm not 100% certain but I'd swear I heard him actually talking to it.  With him spotting and making my wind calls I was tagging the 10 and X ring repeatedly and saw a consistent 6 inches of vertical spread.  From a .308.  With factory ammo.  Of course its hard...but its doable.  You could get sooooo much more shooting and training using a .308 when you're just starting out in long range shooting.

If you go with Vortex make sure you get a scope with enough click for 1,000 yards or at least add a 20moa base. The Vortex PST 6-24 only has ~65 minutes of elevation which isnt quite enough for 1,000 yards in 308. The 4-14 has ~75minutes. On a 308 you are probably going to be looking around 35 minutes to 1,000 depending on your load and barrel. When you get to the upper end of the adjustment range the tracking can start to get a little off. The drop after 1,000 starts increasing pretty fast so if you really want to reach out towards 1,320 I would probably look for something with 100 minutes of elevation.

This
Buy a savage 10 fcp sr in 6.5 creedmoor and be done with it. Good barrel life, low recoil, better balistics than you need, with cheap components and excellent cheap factory match ammo (which you should be reloading if you want to go out past 600 imo)
And if you can seriously get moa with 260 @ 1k your a pro. Straight up pro. Like Beast mode fkn pro.

To the guy shooting 1k with ball ammo...
I bet you just mix a bunch of powder in the hopper and start throwing @ random weights and still get 5" of verticle @ 1k right? Lmao
Ive shot m118 military ball out of many guns. Its never grouped better than abot 2-3moa for a 10 ahot group. Am i saying that cant happen? Nope. But i aint seen it.
3moa (10 shot group) @ 1k, assuming your bullets were supersonic which they shouldnt be, were talking a 30" target if your perfect at calling wind.....
Now, im not good enough to go past 500 yards yet personally but i am working on it.
BUT my 16" 308 win usig 185 bergers and imr4064 will stay supersonic to 1400 yards. And its only 27" total length for the whole rifle. Just buy better bullets and learn to load. Cheaper calibers like 223 and 308 will show your weaknesses better than 300 wm and youll shoot them 10x as much because of less recoil and availability.
But again, i too, am a novice at this sport

Eta, used factory savage 10 fcp sr with factory hornady 140eld match at 1k and it held about moa. My wind reading was more than likely the limiting factor.

I just shot a 6.5 creedmoor and a 308 at 1k for the first time today. My .308 beat it, but it was a factory savage and factory ammo vs custom. Sadly i didnt win by enough to make me happy lol considering how much more i spent on my 308 :/

My 22" gave me 2676fps average at the muzzle with factory Federal 175gr Sierras last week.  

I enjoy shooting my 18" Savage 308 at 1000yrds.  My dad shoots his 300WM Rem700 alongside me.  We're usually about even as far as hits/misses.  Both are pretty mild recoil-wise, but my 308 is much easier to settle back on target to see my impact, especially with the suppressor on.  I would recommend the 308 for the cheaper cost and less recoil.  If I were to do it all over again, I'd look at a 6.5 Creed or 260 though.  The new 6 Creed seems pretty awesome too.  We both reload our own ammo.

Personally, I shoot a Rem 700 Long Range platform in 7mm Mag and it is very comfortable and capable.
I have shot other rifles that were less comfortable.300WM and others that were more so 6.5x47. All depends on your thresholds of what is tolerable. In answer to your question 7mm Mag is a very capable round for the 1000+ range

Well, it's 2 years later...
Is THIS what you were hoping for?


G1 BC = 0.754
G7 BC = 0.387

Didn't read the thread

I'm building a 20" 6.5 grendel for my range's 1,040 steel target. 123g match ammo combined with my 6,000' elevation should help.

Why not get those $500 savage 6.5 creedmoors that grab a gun has been pimping?

I'd simply get pissed trying to be good at a grand with .30 and my shoulder would hate me with a .300wm

I think you're setting yourself up to fail or not succeed as well if ou had a different tool. Why intentionally make it harder? Already have a 308? Sure, use it I guess. Building a purspose build gun? I'd pick a 6.5creedmoor

Good luck

308 at 1K is easily doable.  I was shooting 168gr Hornady BTHP's at 950yds and getting lots of hits (50%+) with my 20" AIAT a couple weeks ago and it was my first time shooting over 500yds.  We were shooting at a 10" round plate.

I am going to try 1300yds+ with some 178gr ELD-X when I get a chance.  I may try 185 Juggernaut's too if I can pry open my wallet.

All that being said if I wasn't heavily invested in 308 I would buy a 260Rem barrel for my AIAT as it would make long range a bit easier.