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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:09:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cruze5]
poll coming.
for precision reloading i've been using a standard powder measure. and thinking of going to a competition by RCBS |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:42:57 AM EDT
[#1]
Simple RCBS measure that came with my Rockchucker kits years ago. Trickle a little up, every one...
Given the boringly repeatable, flat out, dead nuts, spot on measurements with my Hornady measure on my LNL-AP and the results Popnfresh is churning out, I am about to just go that route. Just have to get over the OCD thing... |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 9:25:03 AM EDT
[#2]
Hornady (not electronic ).
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Posted: 8/10/2017 9:28:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWEIII:
Simple RCBS measure that came with my Rockchucker kits years ago. Trickle a little up, every one... Given the boringly repeatable, flat out, dead nuts, spot on measurements with my Hornady measure on my LNL-AP and the results Popnfresh is churning out, I am about to just go that route. Just have to get over the OCD thing... |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 9:49:34 AM EDT
[#4]
I'm still using an rcbs 10/10.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 9:58:59 AM EDT
[#5]
Wow, I didn't know there were powder measuring competitions.
A previous job had me mixing dyes and glue variations. We figured out quickly that the digital scales available at the time sucked. The digital scale option was faster, but the accuracy was an issue. I would hope that the higher priced digital scales available these days are accurate. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 10:31:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RWEIII:
Simple RCBS measure that came with my Rockchucker kits years ago. Trickle a little up, every one... Given the boringly repeatable, flat out, dead nuts, spot on measurements with my Hornady measure on my LNL-AP and the results Popnfresh is churning out, I am about to just go that route. Just have to get over the OCD thing... i trickle with a primed piece of brass that i trimmed to short.... been working great for years. didn't know if the competition ones are that much greater. i don't have the electricity or complete flat/ level surface for a electric one |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 10:47:59 AM EDT
[#7]
I'm using a Chargemaster.
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USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 10:51:08 AM EDT
[#8]
Charge master. Every 5 throws gets weighed on a beam
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Posted: 8/10/2017 11:21:29 AM EDT
[#9]
Dillon x10.
About half of them have been polished. One has that fancy micrometer conversion on it. I have an aquarium pump that I stick on the reservoir when I load the rifle rounds so they have those good vibrations. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:09:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Lee dipper + Frankford Arsenal trickler + a scale. Every charge is weighed.
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:51:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reorx:
Lee dipper + Frankford Arsenal trickler + a scale. Every charge is weighed. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:52:02 PM EDT
[#12]
Most of the major players make good PM.
I upgraded to the Redding PM and it is absolutely awesome. Here is an archived thread I did a while back where I measured from 4gr to 25gr and created a calibration curve using the micrometer. The micrometer tracked within 0.1gr almost the entire range. I'm thrilled with it. I could probably dig up the pictures if you're really interested. For the most part though I hand trickle my precision loads and PM virtually all rifle calibers that are not long range precision loads. Thread |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 1:54:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drfroglegs:
Most of the major players make good PM. I upgraded to the Redding PM and it is absolutely awesome. Here is an archived thread I did a while back where I measured from 4gr to 25gr and created a calibration curve using the micrometer. The micrometer tracked within 0.1gr almost the entire range. I'm thrilled with it. I could probably dig up the pictures if you're really interested. For the most part though I hand trickle my precision loads and PM virtually all rifle calibers that are not long range precision loads. Thread If I was to buy an electronic one (which I may do one day) I would get the new chargemaster lite. |
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Posted: 8/10/2017 2:13:20 PM EDT
[#14]
RCBS uniflow for TAC/H335/BLC2/Unique/Bullseye/Herco.
Hornady electronic measure/scale for IMR4198/IMR4895/Blue Dot. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 2:44:07 PM EDT
[#15]
I use the A&D fx with the autotrickler for precision rifle reloading. It's an awesome combo! If you're using stick powder the only way to get consistent charge weights is by trickling up using a scale. A benchrest powder thrower will still have inconsistent charge weights if using a stick powder. If you can get the autotrickler combo it's totally worth it. If not I'd get the chargemaster.
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 2:51:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
You must be immortal. I did that for a while and finally said "fuck this, life is too short to spend hours trickling powder granules". 
This discipline is about precision, not volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds on a single stage Rock Chucker as a young man many moons ago. The (relatively) small volume of high quality ammunition that I do now is a walk in the park by comparison. I don't see any way around weighing each charge at this point (I am just getting into precision shooting). I recently read something a wise old reloader said... something about "eliminating variables"... for me that entails weighing every charge. Eventually, I will probably do it differently but for now, I am dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s... so in my mind, if you are going to weigh every charge, you will need to trickle to some degree... and if that is true, does it really matter what you use to throw the initial charge? - not really it will just effect how much you need to trickle... from my perspective, a grain or 2 more or less doesn't really matter. < an added benefit to this method is that I don't have to worry about or even consider which powders meter well or not so well...  >
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VA, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 3:02:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Happy2shoot]
[#17]
I use the Hornady Lock-N-Load Auto Charge Powder Dispenser for long stick powders like varget and 4064
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Posted: 8/10/2017 3:20:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reorx:
Thanx, it's really nice meeting another immortal!
This discipline is about precision, not volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds on a single stage Rock Chucker as a young man many moons ago. The (relatively) small volume of high quality ammunition that I do now is a walk in the park by comparison. I don't see any way around weighing each charge at this point (I am just getting into precision shooting). I recently read something a wise old reloader said... something about "eliminating variables"... for me that entails weighing every charge. Eventually, I will probably do it differently but for now, I am dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s... so in my mind, if you are going to weigh every charge, you will need to trickle to some degree... and if that is true, does it really matter what you use to throw the initial charge? - not really it will just effect how much you need to trickle... from my perspective, a grain or 2 more or less doesn't really matter. < an added benefit to this method is that I don't have to worry about or even consider which powders meter well or not so well... >Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reorx:
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
You must be immortal. I did that for a while and finally said "fuck this, life is too short to spend hours trickling powder granules".
This discipline is about precision, not volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds on a single stage Rock Chucker as a young man many moons ago. The (relatively) small volume of high quality ammunition that I do now is a walk in the park by comparison. I don't see any way around weighing each charge at this point (I am just getting into precision shooting). I recently read something a wise old reloader said... something about "eliminating variables"... for me that entails weighing every charge. Eventually, I will probably do it differently but for now, I am dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s... so in my mind, if you are going to weigh every charge, you will need to trickle to some degree... and if that is true, does it really matter what you use to throw the initial charge? - not really it will just effect how much you need to trickle... from my perspective, a grain or 2 more or less doesn't really matter. < an added benefit to this method is that I don't have to worry about or even consider which powders meter well or not so well... >Then the scoops wouldn't match my load close enough so I might have to use two different scoops to get closer so I didn't have to trickle 2 grains. I weigh every charge for my precision loads but I never trickle anymore. I put my empty case on the scale "tare" it, throw charge into the case, weigh it. If it is within +/-.05 grain I keep it, if not I dump it and throw again. This is the fastest way I have found to weigh every charge while keeping a tight +/- spread. Of course this certainly requires a good flowing powder otherwise you will have to dump the majority of your throws. I only use W748 and W760, the 748 works great the w760 is a bit more picky. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:28:06 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By chocolateisyummy2:
I use the A&D fx with the autotrickler for precision rifle reloading. It's an awesome combo! If you're using stick powder the only way to get consistent charge weights is by trickling up using a scale. A benchrest powder thrower will still have inconsistent charge weights if using a stick powder. If you can get the autotrickler combo it's totally worth it. If not I'd get the chargemaster. Think of it as a Chargemaster that can actually keep charges within +/- a kernel rather than mostly +/- 0.1gr because the scale is very accurate and responsive. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2017 8:55:46 PM EDT
[#20]
I use a standard, but *really* wish I had a chargemaster.
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Posted: 8/11/2017 6:46:21 AM EDT
[#21]
From the poll I guess I won't spend 120 on a competition upgrade.. thy don't seem that popular or used
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Posted: 8/11/2017 9:13:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#22]
I'm using a Harrell's Precision and Redding BR-30.
I don't trust cheap electronic scales. I still use a balance beam. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 10:57:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By borderpatrol:
I'm using a Harrell's Precision and Redding BR-30. I don't trust cheap electronic scales. I still use a balance beam. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 11:23:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: clausewitz8]
[#24]
I wouldn't waste my money.
I don't see how it's possible to get more accurate than a regular powder throw plus trickler. You can get faster with a machine, but not more accurate. What kind of shooting are you doing? ETA poorly worded so I'll add that I brought up machine as it actually provides a real upgrade for the money. I really would't spend my money on a more precise traditional throw. |
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Posted: 8/11/2017 11:38:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cruze5]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By clausewitz8:
I wouldn't waste my money. I don't see how it's possible to get more accurate than a regular powder throw plus trickler. You can get faster with a machine, but not more accurate. What kind of shooting are you doing? ETA poorly worded so I'll add that I brought up machine as it actually provides a real upgrade for the money. I really would't spend my money on a more precise traditional throw. i reload 223, 308, 260 rem, and 300WM. i mess around with the set screw and measure a few throws. then once i am about a half grain under my charge i set it. then i fill a primed 308 brass with a throw of that charge. so i throw > use the "trickler" to finish the charge. i do this for every caliber to get the exact amount. i didn't know if the competition was any better or not.. been reloading like tihs for about 5 years. my range is 300yards max. occasionally every few years i travel to a longer range |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 9:31:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: borderpatrol]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cruze5:
the benchrest shooters at my ranger rant and rave about harrells. are you happy with yours ? |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 11:46:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: cruze5]
[#27]
powders i use:
VV n140, N540, N150 RL15 Varget H1000 TAC 4064 imp 4895 any issues with the harrel with any of those powders? did you have to buy his stand ? |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2017 1:38:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: chocolateisyummy2]
[#28]
I looked into buying a harrell once till I read reviews where people tested it. They basically found it wasn't anymore accurate then a regular powder measure.
Harrell powder measure accuracy In my opinion if you want exact charges the only way to do it is trickling up. If you want exact charges fast get the autotrickler. Here's a video of the autotrickler setup. Autotrickler |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 1:58:18 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JoeMal:
Charge master. Every 5 throws gets weighed on a beam |
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Posted: 8/12/2017 2:01:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Twoboxer:
Same here, the A&D FX-120i attached to the Autotrickler. Today I received the upgrade adding the powder measure drop (not shown) so it auto-dumps the base charge and auto-trickles up to the charge you've set. Think of it as a Chargemaster that can actually keep charges within +/- a kernel rather than mostly +/- 0.1gr because the scale is very accurate and responsive. http://i1147.photobucket.com/albums/o543/Twoboxer/20160712_194333_zpsivtpeunn.jpg |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2017 2:15:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reorx:
Thanx, it's really nice meeting another immortal!
This discipline is about precision, not volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds on a single stage Rock Chucker as a young man many moons ago. The (relatively) small volume of high quality ammunition that I do now is a walk in the park by comparison. I don't see any way around weighing each charge at this point (I am just getting into precision shooting). I recently read something a wise old reloader said... something about "eliminating variables"... for me that entails weighing every charge. Eventually, I will probably do it differently but for now, I am dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s... so in my mind, if you are going to weigh every charge, you will need to trickle to some degree... and if that is true, does it really matter what you use to throw the initial charge? - not really it will just effect how much you need to trickle... from my perspective, a grain or 2 more or less doesn't really matter. < an added benefit to this method is that I don't have to worry about or even consider which powders meter well or not so well... >Warehouse shooting |
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USA
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Posted: 8/12/2017 7:50:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Lee Auto Drum
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USA
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Posted: 8/12/2017 8:32:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rangerone:
Go here and read this article, especially the "myths busted" section at the bottom. Warehouse shooting I have run my own tests comparing hand weighed charges to unadulterated, thrown charges (not trickled up). There was no difference in accuracy. There was no difference in point of impact or group size either. I've done this in 30-06, 308, 223 and 6XC. Do it yourself if you don't believe me, Rangerone or the article's author. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/12/2017 10:38:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rangerone:
Go here and read this article, especially the "myths busted" section at the bottom. Warehouse shooting 
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/13/2017 1:00:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Chargemaster as a first step, then verify and fine tune on a gempro 250 w/ powder tricker to add or tweezers to remove powder.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/13/2017 3:46:08 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Rangerone:
Go here and read this article, especially the "myths busted" section at the bottom. Warehouse shooting "Powder charges, as long as they were fairly consistent and bracketed within a couple of grains, were not important. He threw all of his charges with a Belding & Mull powder measure, and for one experiment he shot groups using three different powder measure settings (51, 52 & 53) … all three groups were identical" Interesting, because varying powder charge by 2gr (eg 53.3gr vs 55.4gr) in a 30-06 launching a 175gr TMK will change velocity by 120fps (2732 vs 2852 average for 10 shots) out of a 26" Bartlein mtu barrel. That difference in velocity alone will cause a 0.25" change in POI at 100 yds. FWIW, that is a 10 times larger spread than the article's reported AVERAGE group size of 0.025. So it wouldn't be possible to shoot a 0.025" group . . . without fortunate results caused by offsetting shooter or powder measure errors . . . assuming everything else was perfectly consistent. Not only did those folks bust myths, but apparently they also defied the laws of physics. :) |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/13/2017 4:06:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Chargemaster. I sped up the dispensing and it only over throws 1/20. Fuck ever weighing charges manually again. If I were rich I'd have two and then be able to load as fast I I could on a progressive press. It meters varget well and my loads are solid.
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Posted: 8/13/2017 4:15:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By drfroglegs:
Most of the major players make good PM. I upgraded to the Redding PM and it is absolutely awesome. Here is an archived thread I did a while back where I measured from 4gr to 25gr and created a calibration curve using the micrometer. The micrometer tracked within 0.1gr almost the entire range. I'm thrilled with it. I could probably dig up the pictures if you're really interested. For the most part though I hand trickle my precision loads and PM virtually all rifle calibers that are not long range precision loads. Thread |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 4:37:05 PM EDT
[#39]
Harrell's Precision measures have a built-in baffle that is approximately a .30 caliber hole. Your technique is critical to consistent charge weights.
I pause on the upstroke and again on the downstroke. I rap the handle after the powder finishes flowing through the tube to insure the wasn't any bridging. I rarely exceed .15 grains of my target charge weight when throwing Varget. In other words .3 grain total variance +/-. I take my time and the results show it. I do not hand weigh any charges intended for use at 300 yards or closer. My 24.5 grain charge of Varget combined with Sierra's 69 grain Match King bullets will shoot cleans with high X-counts if I do my part. NRA high power targets will allow you to shoot a perfect score if you can hold 1 moa across the course. Nobody has ever accomplished that feat. The 10 ring represents 2 moa at every distance and only a handful of people have ever fired a score of 500 on the 50 round NM course. Consistent ammo that shoots 1 moa or smaller is all anyone ever needs for 95% of the shooting sports. Only bench rest, F-Class or 1000 yard tournaments needs better. |
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Posted: 8/13/2017 4:39:08 PM EDT
[#40]
Most PRS targets are under 1 MOA.
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USA
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Posted: 8/13/2017 6:12:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Twoboxer:
From the "Myths Busted" section: Not only did those folks bust myths, but apparently they also defied the laws of physics. :) Given that, recall there are two disciplines benchrest competitions - those shooting for group and those shooting for score. The article talks about "group size" not POI or score. When they say "groups" they mean exactly that - group size. It ignores group placement or point of impact and score. No laws of physics defied. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2017 12:16:04 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Trollslayer:
The context of that article, one of a series, if I recall correctly, was serious, competitive benchrest shooters and shooting. Given that, recall there are two disciplines benchrest competitions - those shooting for group and those shooting for score. The article talks about "group size" not POI or score. When they say "groups" they mean exactly that - group size. It ignores group placement or point of impact and score. No laws of physics defied. So what they actually said was they had a ~2gr node where, if the powder charges were consistent (for the shots within a group), the rifle would shoot good. What they did NOT say is that your powder charge can vary and still retain good groups. At least not the kind of groups they were shooting. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2017 12:44:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Keep in mind, I use ball(spherical) powder only. It can be thrown much more consistent than other types. As for my 308 loads, that is part of the OCD thing I have to get over. I have a stash of RL-15 and a load that produces overlapping holes when I hold my tongue right... |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2017 1:06:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
I have a chargemaster and a hornady electronic powder measure. I then weigh each load on a GemPro 250 before dropping it in the case. It's accurate to .02gr. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/14/2017 1:28:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Reorx:
Lee dipper + Frankford Arsenal trickler + a scale. Every charge is weighed. |
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Posted: 8/14/2017 2:11:31 PM EDT
[#46]
I have two chargemasters. Both are kind of meh. I would prefer something faster and more accurate because I don't enjoy spending hours loading precision ammo.
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USA
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Posted: 8/14/2017 6:06:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Trollslayer]
[#47]
I use my Dillon powder measure. I throw almost all my charges. It throws large and small kernel extruded powders with SD = 0.14 grains. It throws spherical powder with SD ~ 0.04 grain.
If I need less variation than that (I don't), the only way I have to get it is to throw light and trickle up (which I have done). Here's the thing, my mean value and SD are the SAME for thrown and hand weighed powder charges. I have repeated this test on every cartridge I load for and get the same result - they're the same. Still, when I work with a new powder, I hand weigh until I know small variations (+/- 0.5 gr) are still safe. |
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Posted: 1/14/2018 9:31:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DakotaFAL]
[#48]
Redding BR-30.
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Posted: 1/14/2018 10:44:08 PM EDT
[#49]
I use the Pacific (pre-Hornady) powder measure l started with in 1979. Several years ago l added a Lee Perfect Powder Measure for long grained powders like Varget and IMR 4350/ IMR4064 and such. Wish l had tried them years earlier.
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Posted: 1/15/2018 10:18:33 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
My main issue WAS with how much I had to trickle using the Lee scoops. "Ah crap a grain under, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, shit! went over, dump a little out, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin, spin" Then the scoops wouldn't match my load close enough so I might have to use two different scoops to get closer so I didn't have to trickle 2 grains. I weigh every charge for my precision loads but I never trickle anymore. I put my empty case on the scale "tare" it, throw charge into the case, weigh it. If it is within +/-.05 grain I keep it, if not I dump it and throw again. This is the fastest way I have found to weigh every charge while keeping a tight +/- spread. Of course this certainly requires a good flowing powder otherwise you will have to dump the majority of your throws. I only use W748 and W760, the 748 works great the w760 is a bit more picky. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By Reorx:
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
You must be immortal. I did that for a while and finally said "fuck this, life is too short to spend hours trickling powder granules".
This discipline is about precision, not volume. I reloaded thousands of rounds on a single stage Rock Chucker as a young man many moons ago. The (relatively) small volume of high quality ammunition that I do now is a walk in the park by comparison. I don't see any way around weighing each charge at this point (I am just getting into precision shooting). I recently read something a wise old reloader said... something about "eliminating variables"... for me that entails weighing every charge. Eventually, I will probably do it differently but for now, I am dotting the "i"s and crossing the "t"s... so in my mind, if you are going to weigh every charge, you will need to trickle to some degree... and if that is true, does it really matter what you use to throw the initial charge? - not really it will just effect how much you need to trickle... from my perspective, a grain or 2 more or less doesn't really matter. < an added benefit to this method is that I don't have to worry about or even consider which powders meter well or not so well... >Then the scoops wouldn't match my load close enough so I might have to use two different scoops to get closer so I didn't have to trickle 2 grains. I weigh every charge for my precision loads but I never trickle anymore. I put my empty case on the scale "tare" it, throw charge into the case, weigh it. If it is within +/-.05 grain I keep it, if not I dump it and throw again. This is the fastest way I have found to weigh every charge while keeping a tight +/- spread. Of course this certainly requires a good flowing powder otherwise you will have to dump the majority of your throws. I only use W748 and W760, the 748 works great the w760 is a bit more picky. |
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