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Posted: 7/27/2017 11:21:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jpgolffl]
Been reloading for a couple of months and looking for some advice. Load worked up for AR build. I have shot several 0.7ish 5 shot groups, some a little smaller, some a little larger. With the last 20 rounds I had loaded I decided to shoot a couple of 10 shot groups to really see what would happen. The two groups couldnt have been more different lol. Worse group was shot before better group. Barrel should have been roughly same temp for both groups. I read someone say there are no lucky 10 shot groups...I am thinking the load and rifle are GTG and the dude shooting screwed up the first group. Thoughts? I want to make sure the load is good before churning out a pile of them!


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Another thought is that I find it much easier to keep a consistent aim/hold on the larger center target rather than the smaller sub-targets. Maybe that had some to do with it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2017 11:25:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jpgolffl] [#1]
5 shot groups same day. POI changing as I was adjusting between groups.


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upload full resolution photos
Link Posted: 7/27/2017 12:20:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Do you have more than one .223 rifle? If so, how does this load shoot in the other's?

I would be happy with that load, or any load that prints around 1" at 100 yards. That's my cut line, if a load won't do that it's not considered for future use, I'll change powder charge, powder type of eventually the bullet if I can't reach that goal.

I say load em up!
Link Posted: 7/27/2017 1:00:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks. Yea I think I'm good to load just wanting to make sure the random not so great groups are me and not the load. Looking at that big ragged 10 shot hole I cant imagine the load not being solid. I have gotten the hang of testing and loading, but I'm new to deciding it's good enough and loading a ton of them haha.
Link Posted: 7/27/2017 1:20:09 PM EDT
[#4]
What is the purpose? Long range, short range, sub moa targets, 2moa targets?

What is the velocity SD?
Link Posted: 7/27/2017 6:18:50 PM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By popnfresh:
What is the purpose? Long range, short range, sub moa targets, 2moa targets?

What is the velocity SD?
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Longest I have access to is 400 right now and would like to see how small I can get groups from 100 to there. No chrono yet, I'm torn between that and a rcbs chargemaster for my next purchase. I worked it up with OCW and tested quite a few groups at 0.1 above and below and all seemed to print  about the same on the target. Assuming my SD is decent but that's just a guess from what the target says.
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 6:38:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jpgolffl:
Longest I have access to is 400 right now and would like to see how small I can get groups from 100 to there. No chrono yet, I'm torn between that and a rcbs chargemaster for my next purchase. I worked it up with OCW and tested quite a few groups at 0.1 above and below and all seemed to print  about the same on the target. Assuming my SD is decent but that's just a guess from what the target says.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jpgolffl:
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
What is the purpose? Long range, short range, sub moa targets, 2moa targets?

What is the velocity SD?
Longest I have access to is 400 right now and would like to see how small I can get groups from 100 to there. No chrono yet, I'm torn between that and a rcbs chargemaster for my next purchase. I worked it up with OCW and tested quite a few groups at 0.1 above and below and all seemed to print  about the same on the target. Assuming my SD is decent but that's just a guess from what the target says.
At 400 yards a really bad ES(for hand loads) would only be a few inches of vertical so for your current needs not a big worry unless you are shooting 3-4" targets at 400yds. When shooting sub-moa targets with a just barely sub-moa load, then you will need to tighten up your velocity spread or groups or both.

If you are shooting 5-8" plates at 400yds, I would call your load pretty good and shoot it.

For my .223 and 6.5g ARs with cheaper button rifled barrels I got them to .8 and .9moa right away and have not bother trying for better, the Grendel has awesome SD/ES numbers and it shows on the targets by holding that vertical moa way out there but when I try hitting the 3" and 4" plates at 500yds it is a bit pointless, I have much better luck with the .308 because it is reliably 1/2moa AND good SD/ES numbers.

BTW, I have been loading for 23 years and have 3 chronographs and zero Chargmasters but I use ball powder only in all of my loads, it can be thrown directly into the case accurately.
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 10:39:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By popnfresh:

At 400 yards a really bad ES(for hand loads) would only be a few inches of vertical so for your current needs not a big worry unless you are shooting 3-4" targets at 400yds. When shooting sub-moa targets with a just barely sub-moa load, then you will need to tighten up your velocity spread or groups or both.

If you are shooting 5-8" plates at 400yds, I would call your load pretty good and shoot it.

For my .223 and 6.5g ARs with cheaper button rifled barrels I got them to .8 and .9moa right away and have not bother trying for better, the Grendel has awesome SD/ES numbers and it shows on the targets by holding that vertical moa way out there but when I try hitting the 3" and 4" plates at 500yds it is a bit pointless, I have much better luck with the .308 because it is reliably 1/2moa AND good SD/ES numbers.

BTW, I have been loading for 23 years and have 3 chronographs and zero Chargmasters but I use ball powder only in all of my loads, it can be thrown directly into the case accurately.
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10 4 thank you sir. Using varget for now and hand loading each charge with a beam. I can do it pretty quickly but still would love to have the charge dumped for me by the rcbs and then could be seating while the next charge is being dumped. I'm thinking it would pretty much half my time spend charging and seating. It's like $250 now and I think would be worth it. But would also like a chrono to really see what is happening with the loads. What's the most affordable chrono that will do the job sufficiently?
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 2:43:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jpgolffl:


10 4 thank you sir. Using varget for now and hand loading each charge with a beam. I can do it pretty quickly but still would love to have the charge dumped for me by the rcbs and then could be seating while the next charge is being dumped. I'm thinking it would pretty much half my time spend charging and seating. It's like $250 now and I think would be worth it. But would also like a chrono to really see what is happening with the loads. What's the most affordable chrono that will do the job sufficiently?
View Quote
Yeah if I was using Varget I would have a Chargemaster.

If it is something you won't use a lot, then a Shooting Chrony would be fine. I have the Beta Master with remote and it worked well for thousands of rounds.
I got sick of setting it up every weekend so I got a MagnetoSpeed which is well worth the money in simplicity and accuracy. 
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 10:51:40 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
Yeah if I was using Varget I would have a Chargemaster.

If it is something you won't use a lot, then a Shooting Chrony would be fine. I have the Beta Master with remote and it worked well for thousands of rounds.
I got sick of setting it up every weekend so I got a MagnetoSpeed which is well worth the money in simplicity and accuracy. 
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Nice, I didn't realize I could get one for around $100. Should work fine as I won't be using it much. Just to test a couple of loads here and there. Shot a few more groups today and they were about the same so I'm calling it good for now. Thinking the 3 high was me rather than the load. Man it would have been a hell of a group without those.
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