i have around 1,000 rounds of this match brass. Is it ant better than non LC brass? Is it worth reloading for precision shooting or should I just man up and buy some new quality brass?  I shoot a SCAR17.  Thanks

It's identical to standard Lake City, no better and no worse. The benefit to you is once fired wasn't used in a machinegun. Same load data applies, subtract 2.0 grains of powder compared to what you normally use in commercially manufactured brass. The only difference is the headstamp.

168 grain Sierra Match Kings OAL" 2.800"
Lake City once fired brass
Winchester standard large rifle primers

maximum powders charges according to Wm. C. Davis Jr., US Armed Forces ballistician, as tested and recorded for the National Rifle Association:

41.5 grains of IMR-4064
40.5 grains of IMR-4895
39.5 grains of IMR-3031
40.0 grains of H4895
43.0 grains of WW-748

All of these loads achieve approximately 2500 fps from a 22" M1-A, no more than 2600 fps on average from a 24" bolt action.

Loads that I have tested using similar burn rate powders in Lake City brass and 168 grain SMK's:

40.5 grains of AA-2460
41.5 to 42.0 grains of Varget or RE-15
41.0 to 41.5 grains of VihtaVuori N140
42.0 to 42.5 grains of VihtaVuori N150

All of my loads are maximum, near maximum or ever so slightly over maximum. Start lower and work up using either data source. Good Luck.

Thanks for the detailed info.  I'm in the process to getting organized and plan on having both a precision load and a go-to-war/stock pile load.  I'm thinking I could load the match brass with Serria match kings and use the m60 brass for everything else.  Even though their the same, having the match will help me keep everything separated and organized.   I need to come up with 2 loads for the 5.56 also.

It ain't no Lapua

ive got a 20mm ammo can of it that I ordered from the CMP in the mid 90s.  It's consistent enough to shoot across the course with an M14/m1a, but I don't use it for F-class.  It can take the beating from a semi auto pretty well.

whats the headstamp?  LC Match, LC LR?

Does it have a knurled right around the base, right above the case head?


ETA:  pics

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I'm not near the brass right now so I can't check the stamp.  I'm pretty sure it's not knurled.

What was the point of the knurling?

I dont know.  there was a lot of speculation at the time they were shipping thee, but I don't think anyone knew for sure.

Makes your brass easy to identify on the line, though.

The original LC 7.62mm Match ammo had a 173 gr bullet and NO knurled case. When the LC 7.62mm Match round started using the Sierra 168 gr bullet, it also had a knurled case (for people that couldn't tell the difference between the solid tip and the slightly open tip).
All LC 7.62mm Match ammo is without a crimped primer.

The only difference I have found is the Match Brass does not have a crimp.

Original M852 (168 SMK) had knurling to show the user that they were not meant for used in combat. They were considered illegal for combat use at that time because they had hollow points. Our government has changed their policy since then and Sierra 175 grain HP Match King bullets are now issued to our snipers.

The knurling doesn't harm anything, but does make it harder to spot incipient case head separations.

LC Match is good brass.  I have shot literally a ton of it over a military career.  I know guys who religiously sort their LC by year on the headstamps.....so i ask them when they have winchester, Federal or Lapua brass, how do they sort them by year???   LC is LC.  sort them by weight and runout.  Those with good runout after loading go into the boxes for the matches. those without go into boxes for practice.
i do a lot of prep on my LC Match brass.  i turn necks and even ream if necessary ( when necking down to 6.5 CM  for example) I will clean the primer ports and give a good inspection.
some guys don't like the thicker brass and lessor capacity...that is actually why i like them.  With the lessor capacity, i can get a good load from a modest amount of powder because it is already at the shoulder and the case is full.  works well for me in .308's and 6.5CM.  

Prep your brass and shoot it well.  you will be fine.  resist the temptation to go out and buy X's.  the elusive 10-x comes from practice.
Shoot safely brother.

They were loaded for match use and not intended for combat. The knurling was meant to signify competition use, not combat. The packages also carried a warning "not to be used in combat".

This was prior to our lawyers in Washington D.C. deciding that hollow-point match grade bullets were not a violation of international law because they are not "designed" to expand on impact. They are designed to be accurate............ period.

Hence our current sniping round is the 175 grain Sierra Match King (M118-LR) and there seems to be no reason why the old M852 (168 grain SMK) couldn't be used now as well.

I would load and shoot it.  Here is mixed LC year head stamp brass.  Good enough for me.

There is multitude of innuendo about what works best.

Out of Kreiger Barrel M1A.  I took the M852 brass and loaded 41.5gr of IMR 4895 with 168gr SMK. No pressure signs at all.  This was worked up.  And, shot like LC produced stuff.

LC 223 brass  is a different animal as there is no such thing as LC 223 Match brass.

I'll throw in my $0.02 regarding LC brass, and some observations on IMR-4064.

1. LC brass is LC brass, "Match" or otherwise.  It just won't have the primer crimp.    A bit about how M118 ammo and M118 Match ammo got made by Lake City.  When LC accepted a lot of powder and bullets, they develop a load for it that met the velocity specification, and then tested it at 600 yards in heavy test barrels.   If it met the mean radius accuracy requirement it went into mass production.  If it was in the top 10% of mean radius accuracy results based on their history of M118 testing, it was loaded as match ammo, and the case forming machines were set to stamp it as "match" ammo.  There was nothing else special done with the brass.

2. If accuracy is of primary concern, then you'll want to sort your Lake City brass by weight.  Personally, I'll sort by weight, and then use the brass 1 SD either side of the mean weight for my primary load (and this will be about 2/3rds of the brass), and then use the brass on the left hand and right hand tails for practice, developing separate loads to get the same nominal velocity.

3.  I use IMR-4064, mostly because I've used it for 30 years going back to service rifle competition where it was pretty much the go to powder in the M1A and M14.   I noted the comment in a post above about 1.5 grains being the "maximum" for IMR-4064 and I have a few comments on that.

First, as a nominal powder charge, 41.5 grains of IMR-4064 is fine and when placed under a 168 gr SMK will produce a nominal velocity of 2,550 fps.  But that's a nominal charge and a nominal velocity.  You'll need to tweak the actual charge a bit up or down to get that actual 2,550 fps average velocity at around 70 degrees.

Second, temperature is important as I've noted the velocity will change by about 0.8 fps for every change in degrees F.  For example, if you develop the load for an average velocity of 2,550 fps at 70 degrees F, and then shoot it at 30 degrees F, the average velocity will be down around  2,518 fps. Conversely, if you at shooting it at 100 degrees F it'll have an average velocity around 2.574 fps.

Third, IMR 4064 will produce pretty consistent results by weight, but when switching from one lot of powder to another I have at times noted more than 1 gr difference in weight when the powder measure is left unchanged.   For example, this afternoon I used the last of one lot of powder (ending in 2716) and switched to a new lot (ending in 2739) to load up 30 rounds to test the velocity of this new lot.  The powder measure set to deliver the 44.0 grain charge (in FGGM brass) I used with the old lot, produced a charge weight of 45.1 grains with the new lot of IMR-4064, requiring a significant adjustment downward to throw a 44.0 grain charge weight.  When I tested the last 30 rounds from the old lot I got 2675 fps velocity at 33 degrees F, while the 30 rounds loaded to test the new lot gave an average velocity of 2,680 fps.  That's only 5 fps, and not a significant enough change with a 168 gr SMK to bother adjusting the charge weight.

But...don't ever make the mistake of just dumping a can from another lot of powder in your powder measure without verifying the weight, and don't mix powder from different lots in the same powder measure.

4.  41.5 grains isn't a "max" load for a 168 gr SMK, in LC brass - at least in my experience.  M852 was loaded to an average velocity of 2550 fps, but in the big picture it was a fairly moderate load for the 168 gr SMK in the 7.62/.308 Win, but it was easy on the operating rods of the M1A and M14.

Since I had a comparatively dense lot of IMR-4064 on hand I decided to see what it would do in LC brass.  I loaded up 41.5 grains of this lot of IMR-4064 and at 33 degrees F it produced an average velocity of 2515 fps - basically right on the line for what I'd expect at this temperature.   I also tested loads in 1/2 grain increments up to 43.0 grains.   42.0 grains produced an average velocity of 2,552 fps, 42.5 produced 2591 fps, and 43.0 grains produced an average velocity of 2655 fps.  That 43.0 grain load's velocity is about on par with the average velocity of 2698 fps I've gotten in the past with 43.0 gr of IMR-4064 in a LC match case at around 70 degrees F.  But As I've noted in the past, that comes at the expense of some incipient pressure signs in the form of the primers starting to flatten at the 43.0 gr level. In that regard, based on the rather imprecise reading of primers, the maximum load is somewhere between 42.5 and 43.0 grains in military brass, with this lot of IMR 4064 - and not significantly different than other lots.

5. The thicker walls and reduced internal volume of military brass tends to reduce the velocity you can achieve with any given powder compared to civilian brass.  Consider the 2,680 fps average velocity (at 33 degrees F) obtained with 44 gr of IMR-4064 in FGGM brass, which showed no pressure signs (and is  about .7 grain under the maximum based on both published Sierra data, and my own past experience with it).  Then compare that with the 2,591 fps velocity attained with 42.5 grs of the same lot of IMR-4064 in LC brass, which appears to be less than 1/2 grain under a maximum load in LC brass.

If I were loading everything to 2,550 fps, then yes, the LC brass would achieve that velocity with slightly less powder, but it does not have quite the same velocity potential as a .308 case with a bit more volume.

6.  Barrel length isn't a big deal with IMR-4064 regardless of the brass used. The old lot of IMR-4064 launched a 168 gr SMK out of my 26" barrel at an average velocity of 2,675 fps, while it launched a 168 gr SMK at 2,614 fps out of my 20" barrel.  That's only a 66 fps difference in average velocity with 6" less barrel - 11 fps per inch.  If you want the most out of a .308, then a 26" barrel is the way to go, but you're not giving up much with a 20" barrel in the .308.

@DakotaFAL

Great information, thanks for posting!