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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2015 5:05:59 PM EDT
Can a bipod be overloaded, meaning put too much forward pressure on a bipod? Will there be any adverse effects?
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Posted: 5/15/2015 5:50:12 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm guessing I overloaded an Atlas bipod. I broke it!
In all fairness it was on a .338 Lapua. That bipod is very dependent on a central pin that has a hole drilled through it. |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 5/15/2015 6:29:30 PM EDT
[#2]
These are med. length Harris (2 rifles, a 308 & 300 wby mag). Never been able to get either to shoot worth a damn off a bipod. The 308 does well on sand bags. Still tuning the weatherby.
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Posted: 5/15/2015 11:58:29 PM EDT
[#3]
Originally Posted By SAFEshooters: Can a bipod be overloaded, meaning put too much forward pressure on a bipod? Will there be any adverse effects? I've heard of snipers breaking bipods, and if the stock is rather flimsy, it'll be pushed into the barrel and mess with the harmonics. |
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Posted: 5/26/2015 6:46:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: ReconB4]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SAFEshooters:
These are med. length Harris (2 rifles, a 308 & 300 wby mag). Never been able to get either to shoot worth a damn off a bipod. The 308 does well on sand bags. Still tuning the weatherby. I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. |
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Posted: 7/17/2015 7:50:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Multi-G]
[#5]
I've seen it some. Folks tend to want to over compensate for recoil by putting excessive forward pressure on them. Look for "tracks" as their sliding the feet forward in the dirt.
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MN, USA
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Posted: 7/18/2015 9:10:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By SAFEshooters:
These are med. length Harris (2 rifles, a 308 & 300 wby mag). Never been able to get either to shoot worth a damn off a bipod. The 308 does well on sand bags. Still tuning the weatherby. I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. This. well put |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 8/23/2015 1:15:35 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oryx:
This. well put Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oryx:
Originally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By SAFEshooters:
These are med. length Harris (2 rifles, a 308 & 300 wby mag). Never been able to get either to shoot worth a damn off a bipod. The 308 does well on sand bags. Still tuning the weatherby. I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. This. well put Exactly. only time I ever push down on the bipods to compensate for recoil is with machineguns. If you push to much with a rifle, it becomes a pivot point and you end up fighting yourself. Never thought about stock flex before. |
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Posted: 2/15/2016 8:02:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bowhntr6pt:
Originally Posted By SAFEshooters:
These are med. length Harris (2 rifles, a 308 & 300 wby mag). Never been able to get either to shoot worth a damn off a bipod. The 308 does well on sand bags. Still tuning the weatherby. I do 95% of my precision rifle shooting from a bi-pod. If you're having issues with performance when using a bi-pod, it could be that the stock is flexing, you're not maintaining consistent natural point of aim (forcing the rifle on target), or you're inducing inconsistent muscle tremors into the rifle... or a combination of these factors. Slight forward pressure, enough to keep the stock in the shoulder, is enough to work... no need in pushing forward with excessive force that stresses the bi-pod, the stock, and the shooter. This, anything more goes against everything that is taught in precision shooting. Less is more...If you're using muscle to hold the weapon on target, to include "loading" the bipod, your natural point of aim is going to be off. The less you touch the rifle and use muscle to manipulate it, the better. I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. |
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Posted: 2/17/2016 3:46:13 PM EDT
[#9]
I think the idea on loading the bipod is that you are taking up the "slack" in the bipod. When the rifle fires on a loaded bipod it is allowed to recoil somewhat freely straight back into your body. If the slack was in the opposite direction (unloaded) the recoil would transfer to the bipod feet causing them to hop over the ground at whatever direction. This wouldnt be consistent.
If you place more load than required to take up the slack, you will risk more inconsistency in pressure and that will show on your targets. If you load to 10oz of pressure and are 10% inconsistent you are only +/- 1.0oz. If you load to 100oz and are 10% inconsistent you are +/-10oz . |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 1:15:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 2:25:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tweeter:
I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. |
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Posted: 2/18/2016 4:09:06 PM EDT
[#12]
I use this guys technique for prone shooting. Remember you aren't pushing into the rifle with your shoulder you shouldn't be muscling anything you should be relaxed. Using this technique I can watch my bullet hit the target even at 100 yards. If I don't load the bipod properly I get vertical dispersion at long range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG1JZxiui0 |
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Posted: 2/19/2016 3:55:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. Yep but I'd dare say that most people go way overboard with it and a good example is in the OP. Taking out the slack is a good description, it's light pressure as compared to loading the bipod where a non-formally trained long range shooter would think they should be putting muscle behind it. |
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Posted: 2/20/2016 5:00:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ReconB4:
Yep but I'd dare say that most people go way overboard with it and a good example is in the OP. Taking out the slack is a good description, it's light pressure as compared to loading the bipod where a non-formally trained long range shooter would think they should be putting muscle behind it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ReconB4:
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. Yep but I'd dare say that most people go way overboard with it and a good example is in the OP. Taking out the slack is a good description, it's light pressure as compared to loading the bipod where a non-formally trained long range shooter would think they should be putting muscle behind it. Absolutely, some say they don't need to load at all and they don't have a problem with bipod hop. They are doing something correct that others(like myself) are not. The complaint is most often with Harris bipods, which have very little slack so I guess it makes sense. FTR guys I think all use ski feet so I guess that eliminates the hop problem with no loading what-so-ever.......and the rifle recoils straight back nice and smooth. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2016 5:13:14 PM EDT
[#15]
You have way too much time if you come up with questions like this.
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Posted: 2/20/2016 10:05:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jimlostt: You have way too much time if you come up with questions like this. Thanks for your insight into the topic. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 10:29:03 AM EDT
[#17]
Actually it is an excellent question because one can overload a bipod and it can contribute to accuracy problems.
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Posted: 2/21/2016 10:43:48 AM EDT
[#18]
I've see it quite a bit on the range actually. Not everyone quite gets it the first time and with a lot of self tought shooters it's an area of concern. While I agree it's an important part of shooting off if a bipod. With the addition of shooting mats with built in loading straps, and videos of using things on the range, etc people simply begin to over emphasize or go "more must be better" on it.
If you don't know, it's a perfectly fair question. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 10:58:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Absolutely, some say they don't need to load at all and they don't have a problem with bipod hop. They are doing something correct that others(like myself) are not. The complaint is most often with Harris bipods, which have very little slack so I guess it makes sense. FTR guys I think all use ski feet so I guess that eliminates the hop problem with no loading what-so-ever.......and the rifle recoils straight back nice and smooth. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. Yep but I'd dare say that most people go way overboard with it and a good example is in the OP. Taking out the slack is a good description, it's light pressure as compared to loading the bipod where a non-formally trained long range shooter would think they should be putting muscle behind it. Absolutely, some say they don't need to load at all and they don't have a problem with bipod hop. They are doing something correct that others(like myself) are not. The complaint is most often with Harris bipods, which have very little slack so I guess it makes sense. FTR guys I think all use ski feet so I guess that eliminates the hop problem with no loading what-so-ever.......and the rifle recoils straight back nice and smooth. Harris is what I've used. On occasion if it does hop, it's not much and you should be pretty much back on target. I've rarely had a problem with hopping and a Harris. If you're applying the fundamentals and that includes natural point of aim, you should be on target for a follow up. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 10:58:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Actually it is an excellent question because one can overload a bipod and it can contribute to accuracy problems. |
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Posted: 2/21/2016 11:47:18 PM EDT
[#21]
What stock are you using ? I always fight my Harris bipods on HS stocks for some reason. One day I brought plenty on ammo proned out on the cement and worked it out. I switch to chassis stocks now I think they are more forgiving but still can shoot the HS if I have to.
I think that's what the grumpy poster above was getting at get out and shoot . If it don't work change things up. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:34:06 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
What stock are you using ? I always fight my Harris bipods on HS stocks for some reason. One day I brought plenty on ammo proned out on the cement and worked it out. I switch to chassis stocks now I think they are more forgiving but still can shoot the HS if I have to. I think that's what the grumpy poster above was getting at get out and shoot . If it don't work change things up. Technique is the answer, equipment is not, unless theirs some gross error on set up. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 12:53:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
Technique is the answer, equipment is not, unless theirs some gross error on set up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Multi-G:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
What stock are you using ? I always fight my Harris bipods on HS stocks for some reason. One day I brought plenty on ammo proned out on the cement and worked it out. I switch to chassis stocks now I think they are more forgiving but still can shoot the HS if I have to. I think that's what the grumpy poster above was getting at get out and shoot . If it don't work change things up. Technique is the answer, equipment is not, unless theirs some gross error on set up. Right I believe the HS stock is less forgiving with sloppy technique . Part of the problem may be I run LOP a inch shorter on my adjustable stocks that I can't do on HS stocks |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 2:05:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
Right I believe the HS stock is less forgiving with sloppy technique . Part of the problem may be I run LOP a inch shorter on my adjustable stocks that I can't do on HS stocks Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
Originally Posted By Multi-G:
Originally Posted By Easy_E:
What stock are you using ? I always fight my Harris bipods on HS stocks for some reason. One day I brought plenty on ammo proned out on the cement and worked it out. I switch to chassis stocks now I think they are more forgiving but still can shoot the HS if I have to. I think that's what the grumpy poster above was getting at get out and shoot . If it don't work change things up. Technique is the answer, equipment is not, unless theirs some gross error on set up. Right I believe the HS stock is less forgiving with sloppy technique . Part of the problem may be I run LOP a inch shorter on my adjustable stocks that I can't do on HS stocks But is your eye relief the same now? Unless you moved your scope then you affected another adjustment factor. Do you have full edge to edge clarity or full field of view when you look through the scope? Precision rifle is a system and each detail must be correct for you. Many people fight "equipment"'problems when it's typically shooter problem. These rifles are not as forgiving as an AR, set up wise. I'll ask, not to be abrasive or anything, but what's your precision rifle shooting background? |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 4:14:48 PM EDT
[#25]
With the HS and I was having trouble with bipod hop . By changing the scope for eye relief and working with a rear bag I was able to stop it.
I bought a Rock Solid adjustable stock and found the HS was about an inch long for me. With the adjustable length of pull, adjustable cheek piece and lots of scope rail adjustment it can fit anyone. As for my background I have no formal training Ive shot prairie dogs the last twelve years and attended a few matches placing well for a beginner. The above stock info is from years ago and I thought it my help the OP with his troubles. |
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Posted: 2/22/2016 8:36:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Easy_E:
With the HS and I was having trouble with bipod hop . By changing the scope for eye relief and working with a rear bag I was able to stop it. I bought a Rock Solid adjustable stock and found the HS was about an inch long for me. With the adjustable length of pull, adjustable cheek piece and lots of scope rail adjustment it can fit anyone. As for my background I have no formal training Ive shot prairie dogs the last twelve years and attended a few matches placing well for a beginner. The above stock info is from years ago and I thought it my help the OP with his troubles. I have to admit, I don't get where you guys are getting this bipod hop. It has to have something to do with your positioning. I can't see that a stock/bipod setup would attribute to that. All I used on the M24 was a HS stock and Harris bipod and never had a problem with it. Before spending a lot of money on different stocks and bipods I'd look into things you are or aren't doing like someone mentioned above. |
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Posted: 2/27/2016 4:59:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: tweeter]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By tweeter:
Originally Posted By ReconB4:...
I have no idea where "loading" the bipod came from as it's the complete opposite of anything that's taught in formal schools. I have a sneaking suspicion that it was transferred action left over from crew-served weapons training, where loading a bipod for automatic fire control is preferred. No, it's what I described above, because that's how it works. I understand what you are saying and I agree. I was simply answering the question of "where did it come from". Incidentally, the effect in both cases is similar. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/7/2016 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#28]
There's a good segment in the Magpul Precision Rifle series with Todd Hoddnett talking about this subject. Since he uses a scientific approach to about everything, they came out with some good feedback. The short answer is absolutely yes you can overload a bipod. For a host of reasons, which I think most have mentioned above, overloading is a bad idea.
Another consideration is the system. How much you load a bolt gun is different than a gas gun. Part of the theory being all the moving parts in a gas gun leave more room for error. Really though what it comes down to, like all things in precision shooting, is consistency. Really laying into a bipod and loading it hard makes being consistent very difficult. The longer you lay and stress muscles the more inconsistent you're gonna be. You basically want just enough to feel the rifle in your shoulder pocket as you reach your natural point of aim. Once you have found this you wanna be able to replicate it over and over again, that's when you'll stop having good days and bad days in the grouping department and you can progress your skills and start focusing on a new problem area. |
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Posted: 3/7/2016 9:03:53 PM EDT
[#29]
Yes they can !
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Posted: 3/7/2016 11:07:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Yeah, anything can break.
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USA
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Posted: 3/19/2016 9:38:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jimlostt:
You have way too much time if you come up with questions like this. Come on man. Not everyone is a precision marksman, give the guy a break. Additionally, that was a great question, OP. Others have given you excellent info. As stated, obtaining natural point of aim is paramount to achieving success in LR/precision shooting. This is one of the best explanations I've seen thus far, given to us by an absolute professional: Natural Point of Aim by Caylen Wojcik |
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