Sponsored By FNH USAPresented By SureFire
3-GUN NATION Sponsors & Contributors
Site Notices
Author
Message
insidetheten
Member
Offline
Posts: 38
Feedback: 0% (0)
Posted: 10/31/2011 9:49:22 AM
I'm putting the finishing touches on my rifle, and have a question on offset sight placement vs accuracy. I have a scope mounted and want to add offset irons. In regards to repeatable accuracy, is it better to mount the front offset sight on the gas block, or mount it on an extended forearm that covers the gas block? I can do either, and like the way the extended forearm looks, but have heard that mounting the sight on the float tube is not the best way to go. Advice is much appreciated!! Thanks!!
"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap." - Napoleon Bonaparte
alemonkey
Beer drinking, gun toting, libertarian simian.
Offline
Posts: 835
Feedback: 100% (10)
Link To This Post
Posted: 10/31/2011 11:30:52 AM
For short range use it won't hurt to have them on the float tube. If this was your primary sighting system it wouldn't be ideal because the tube can flex.
If you live in Nebraska you should be a member of the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association (membership is free!): http://www.nebraskafirearms.org/

Who is John Galt?

insidetheten
Member
Offline
Posts: 40
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/2/2011 12:34:28 AM
So as far as offset sights go, who's using what? I was looking at the Dueck sights, but not sure about the rear sight mounted backwards (I'm a lefty). I want to stay with irons on this rifle, so can anyone make some suggestions about what has worked for them? Any info is appreciated - Thanks
"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap." - Napoleon Bonaparte
Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2612
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/2/2011 6:06:40 AM
[Last Edit: 11/2/2011 6:07:51 AM by Glockfan]
I use this as my patrol rifle. (scopes fog when you go inside after being outside in the cold) Its just Magpul gen two sights ona daniel deffese off set mounts. Works well for me.
Pat




I used to have troys on it but moved them to another rifle and used magpuls to save money.
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class
BePhreed
Online
Posts: 271
Feedback: 100% (43)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/3/2011 6:37:52 PM
For three gun, I've found that it is not necessary to have the rear sight behind your primary optic. After all these sights are only for close targets. Here is a pic of me on my friends rifle at a match a few years ago. I was going to pick up a set of the Knight's sights but they never came to my local shop so I might go with the Surefires of maybe order the Knight's from another vendor. You would be surprised how decent of a sight picture you get even with the rear sight so forward. Either way, once you pick up a pair you can try both ways. -Ben

Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2616
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/3/2011 7:21:21 PM
It can work if its forward but its faster if the rear sight is close to your eye. That way all you have to do is put the front sight on the target. I find an apature sight up that far to be very slow to use.
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class
insidetheten
Member
Offline
Posts: 43
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/4/2011 12:07:00 PM
That's a good point , Pat. Plus having the longer sight radius would be a plus. More accurate to mount the front sight on the float tube or the gas block? I know that 3G rifles may tend to get banged around a lot. How much is a float tube (like a VTAC) liable to flex or move around?
"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap." - Napoleon Bonaparte
Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2625
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/4/2011 7:22:00 PM
[Last Edit: 11/4/2011 7:23:10 PM by Glockfan]
The gas block is more stable but I use low profile gas blocks and long forends because I prefer to be able to rest the forearm vs the barrel on a barricade. Then again I don't shoot irons much. Unless your putting a lot of pressure on the forend however I don't see it causing huge points of impact changes at the ranges your going to be using these side sights.
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class
jtischauser
Member
Offline
Posts: 244
Feedback: 100% (12)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/4/2011 11:04:13 PM
[Last Edit: 11/4/2011 11:05:33 PM by jtischauser]
I have played with a set of the Dueck offset sights on my Stag Arms 3G. They are quality sights for sure. Their application is very specialized. They are fast for those times when you are dialed up to full magnification for long range shooting and then have to shoot some close paper between long range shooting positions. My primary optic is a Swaro Z6i which has a HUGE field of view so it is quicker to use the scope on 6X at anything past 15-20 yards rather than transition. They at definitely a time saver when the application is there. Plus if you bust your optic tossing it into a drop barrel you have sights to get you through the stage.

I thought I saw a picture of the Left handed Stag 3GL with a set of left handed Dueck sights. Byou might contact Barry or Stag and ask about the left hand set.
JESSE
www.JesseTischauser.com
www.BoomerShooter.com
dart368
Offline
Posts: 11
Feedback: 100% (1)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/11/2011 7:55:11 PM
What yardage do you zero the iron sights at? What would be optimal?
Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2651
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/11/2011 11:38:14 PM
I zeroed mine at 50 yards like I would standard Irons. That way I just hold on target till 200 yards. Not that I would need to use these that far out. Some people sight them at 25 yards.
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class
jtischauser
Member
Offline
Posts: 247
Feedback: 100% (12)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/12/2011 4:26:19 AM
Originally Posted By dart368:
What yardage do you zero the iron sights at? What would be optimal?


I run a 100 yard zero on my Swarovski BRT reticle. It is ~2.75" at 0 yards and ~2" low at 25 yards. I want POA to match POI since it doesn't in my primary. I can shoot the scope faster out past about 20 yards do I zeroed at 15ish.

You won't be shooting bullseye with those offset sights. They are for speed not accuracy so I don't think the distance matters as long as you're comfortable with POI in the range of where u plan to use them.
JESSE
www.JesseTischauser.com
www.BoomerShooter.com
jtischauser
Member
Offline
Posts: 248
Feedback: 100% (12)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/12/2011 4:48:04 AM
Originally Posted By Glockfan:
I zeroed mine at 50 yards like I would standard Irons. That way I just hold on target till 200 yards. Not that I would need to use these that far out. Some people sight them at 25 yards.
Pat


Did u shoot them at 200? Its gonna have to be a pretty big target to be on target at both 50 and 200. Remember that your rifle is now tilted almost 45 degrees so your barrel is now pointing left and not as high as compared to when its verticle.

Since the bore axis is on a different plane than the offset irons the bullet will not cross the same line of sight as the irons twice like it will when using your optic in the vertical position.
JESSE
www.JesseTischauser.com
www.BoomerShooter.com
Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2654
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/12/2011 3:58:59 PM
[Last Edit: 11/12/2011 4:09:08 PM by Glockfan]
Originally Posted By jtischauser:
Originally Posted By Glockfan:
I zeroed mine at 50 yards like I would standard Irons. That way I just hold on target till 200 yards. Not that I would need to use these that far out. Some people sight them at 25 yards.
Pat


Did u shoot them at 200? Its gonna have to be a pretty big target to be on target at both 50 and 200. Remember that your rifle is now tilted almost 45 degrees so your barrel is now pointing left and not as high as compared to when its verticle.

Since the bore axis is on a different plane than the offset irons the bullet will not cross the same line of sight as the irons twice like it will when using your optic in the vertical position.


I shot my department rifle qual with starts at 100 yards and the shots hit where I put them. When you rotate the rifle over your off set sights are very close to being directly over the bore. They are still off slightly but not a huge amount. The off set is more noticable at extreme close range such as head shots at 7 yards. That is accounting for the normal off set at that range. When I sight in the off set sights I tilt the rifle in the bag until the sights are over the bore like a normal set of sights would be. Thats Also how I shoot them.
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class
backbencher
Member
Offline
Posts: 246
Feedback: 0% (0)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/12/2011 4:10:30 PM
Pat,

"It can work if its forward but its faster if the rear sight is close to your eye. That way all you have to do is put the front sight on the target. I find an apature sight up that far to be very slow to use."

Which is odd, b/c all of the early 20th century battle rifles, save the Enfield, started out w/ mid mounted sights, the theory being a rear-mounted aperture sight would be too slow, albeit has more inherent accuracy due to the longer sight radius.

Gig 'em,

backbencher
Glockfan
NRA Life Endowment Member
Offline
Posts: 2655
Feedback: 100% (41)
Link To This Post
Posted: 11/12/2011 8:25:01 PM
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Pat,

"It can work if its forward but its faster if the rear sight is close to your eye. That way all you have to do is put the front sight on the target. I find an apature sight up that far to be very slow to use."

Which is odd, b/c all of the early 20th century battle rifles, save the Enfield, started out w/ mid mounted sights, the theory being a rear-mounted aperture sight would be too slow, albeit has more inherent accuracy due to the longer sight radius.

Gig 'em,

backbencher


I believe that was because in the early 20th century most of the rear apature sights were very small for maximum precision at long range and such as set up is not fast. Open up the apature a bit and you get a really fast and dirty sight for close in. (AKA Ghost ring)
Pat
Firearms Instructor.
Colt M16/AR15 and 1911 Armorer.
Glock Armorer.
USPSA A56876 B Class