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Posted: 8/17/2015 3:04:09 AM EDT
In last month's newsletter, we hinted at another large project we're undertaken, and that is going to be our new ride when we go out hunting.
Sure we hunt from a nice air-conditioned vehicle when it's really hot in the summer(spot and stalk), but there are places where it can't go. We also hunt with a UTV other times, and that works well when it's not so hot out. But rather than start with a brand new UTV, we've decided that for this project we're going to restore a 40+ year old M151A2 MUTT (Military Unit Tactical Truck). For those not familiar with this vehicle, it was the main "Jeep" of the Vietnam era. The Truck, Utility, 1/4-Ton, 4×4, M151 was the successor to the Korean War M38 and M38A1 jeep Light Utility Vehicles. Commonly referred to as a "jeep" or "quarter-ton", it was produced from 1959 through 1982 and served in the Vietnam War. The M151 had a monocoque design making it roomier, with more ground clearance, while at the same time lowering the center of gravity than previous jeep designs, and incorporated an independent suspension with coil springs. It has since been replaced by the larger AM General HMMWV in most utility roles in frontline use. But with some M151A2-units still in U.S. military service in 1999, the M151-series achieved a longer run of service than that of the WW2 MB/GPW, M38 and M38A1 series combined. Why? Because it was small, light, and capable of high-speed cross-country travel, while boasting high maneuverability and agility. The M151 has a range of 300 miles, provides space for 4 people with equipment, and can go just about anywhere. It is rugged and designed to be maintained under field operating conditions. It is completely waterproof, even capable of operating completely submerged with the fording kit. All attributes that make it the perfect base for our hog hunting vehicle. ------------------------------------------------------- WHY THE M151A2? So most will wonder why bother with an old vehicle; surely it will be a lot more work that just buying a modern and reliable UTV. This is true, but this is way cooler. The M151 is no slouch though, and can keep up with any modern off-road vehicle typically used for hunting. In addition, it is designed for low light operations, has the option of having a windshield up or down (for using thermal). It is a very capable off-road 4x4, and has a decent range (almost 300 miles), plus it carries at least an additional 5gal can for extended operations. Even todays Jeeps do not have 4 wheel independent suspensions. With the roll cage installed, a spotter can stand in the back looking for game from a higher vantage point. It is road-legal so we can drive form one location to another of necessary on public roads. It is completely waterproof so that we can hunt even in Texas flooding (driving in the water), but more importantly cleaning it inside and out is simple. It is lightweight and small (about 5'x10' and 2400lbs) so it can be towed and stored easily. It is midway between a full-size car and a UTV, which makes it about the perfect size. WHERE WE ARE TODAY We picked up this vehicle in Mississippi a few weeks ago. It had come out of Camp Shelby originally, and had been sitting outdoors for most of the time since. As a result, it is in less than showroom condition, but mostly cosmetic issues. Just now finally removed all the leaves, pine needles, and assorted crap that had accumulated in it over the last few decades and washed most of the mud off it. It is running and driving. Sort of stopping. It is not perfect, as it has rust and about 60 pounds of paint, but all the parts are there and most are working. In addition, we have a spare chassis which we can use as a donor for any needed parts, as well as a collection of spare parts that may have belonged to it's half brother. Rather than just fix the few items that need fixing, we are going to tear the whole thing down and rebuild it to make sure everything is as it should be and reliable. I don't want to be discovering problems that were not visible in the middle of the night, miles from any road. TO DO LIST So there are a few items that we have on the "to-do"list for this vehicle, and they include: Restoration - first and foremost is going to be the restoration of the vehicle. Not necessarily for the sake of restoring it to original specs, but to ensure that it is as good and reliable as it can be. After all, this thing is over 40 years old, and more than likely not taken care of like it was a treasured exotic. This means we will be going through every part and rebuilding just about everything. This will include stripping the body/chassis and sandblasting, then fixing, reinforcing, and repainting. Then the suspension, drivetrain, engine, gauges, glass, and even replacing the wiring harness. Luckily these things were designed to be worked on by soldiers, and in the field, so most of the work is relatively "simple" although time consuming. Also, there is still a good supply of New Old Stock for most of the parts. Hopefully this thing will be better than new when we're done with it. Exhaust - rather than replace the stock, we'll look at options to make it even quieter than it is already using a more contemporary exhaust solution. IR Illumination - since these vehicles already came with basic low-light operation in mind, the lights and controls for operating under blackout conditions is in place. To this we will add additional IR illumination in the form of spotlights. Besides this, there shouldn't be much more to do beyond ensuring all the originals operate as they should. Pan&Tilt 640 Thermal with Screen - it's nice to have an option for a group-viewable thermal display. This enables the entire team to discuss and view the same scene, regardless of what they're individually equipped with. Rifle Mounts - we will find an good solution for mounting the rifles with optics and recorders and everything else we carry. The original rifle mounts are not a bad design, but they need to be placed where the expensive optics are protected and have enough room to avoid being damaged. Custom Storage - additional mounting for ammo cans, a cooler?, shooting sticks, and whatever else is typically bouncing around in the back of whatever we're driving. So that's it for now. Here's a picture as it sits today, and I don't expect it to be this "complete" again for a few months. First step is going to be to take the whole thing apart, and try to remember how to put it all back together months from now... Ideas, suggestions and questions are all welcome. =============================== | RESERVED FOR FUTURE UPDATES | =============================== |
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[#2]
When I joined the Marines and got to the FLeet, they were JUST phasing those out (mid 2001) as the fast attack vehicle, and used humvee's as a stopgap until we got the Interim fast attack vehicle (IFAV).
Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. |
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[#3]
Quoted:
When I joined the Marines and got to the FLeet, they were JUST phasing those out (mid 2001) as the fast attack vehicle, and used humvee's as a stopgap until we got the Interim fast attack vehicle (IFAV). Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. View Quote Cool- I didn't realize they were in service that late. I was in 1988-1994 and I can't remember ever seeing one. The M151 got a bad rep for rolling over because it was much faster and more maneuverable than its predecessors, as and as result they were driven harder by young invincible soldiers. Combined with the A-arm suspension design of the M151 and M151A1, fast turns cause excessive camber which in turn did as you mentioned and rolled over. The M151A2 changed to a trailing arms suspension and at least lessened this danger, and they put in the Roll Over Protection System (roll cage) as an added safeguard. Regardless, these are not race cars and won't be driven as one. They were designed primarily for off road use, and that's where it will spend most of its time. |
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[#4]
Pretty sure the ones the Bn had were A1's and had the upgrades, the ballast thing might have just been a institutional memory carry over and not really needed.
They are definitely freaking cool! I was on a working party taking stuff to DRMO, got to see the last of the MUTT's crushed flat in a pile. Probably about 200 of them. Like Humvee's drmo couldn't sell them to the civvie market because they were not DOT legal (by any stretch of the imagination) ETA- Googling around, they were M151A2 FAV's, I'd like to build one out one day. |
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[#5]
Quoted:
They are definitely freaking cool! I was on a working party taking stuff to DRMO, got to see the last of the MUTT's crushed flat in a pile. Probably about 200 of them. View Quote When outfitted with the heavy M2, TOW, Mk19 and an elevated shooting platform like in your pic, they are definitely top heavy! Keep in mind these things have a very narrow wheelbase, skinny tires, and are light weight to start with. |
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[#6]
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[#7]
Quoted:
Yea. The M1511's that replaced them were a lot faster and WAY more stable. http://www.forcerecon.com/images/strong/11bth.jpg On the flip side they were NOT a jeep LOL. It's funny though, that the Growler that replaced the IFAV looks a LOT like an M151. View Quote The M151 was also not a Jeep (Produced by Ford, then AM General and Kaiser) and so it could not use the vertical slat grill; they had to turn slats sideways, but it was called jeep regardless. The Growler was produced because when they phased out the M151 they no longer had a vehicle that could be deployed by helicopter or the Osprey. The Growlers were basically built-up from the M151s, but carried a price tag that started at $200K IIRC and went up from there (IIRC one version was over $1mil). They were specifically designed to be deployed from the Osprey, and replaced the IFAV altogether. The Ranger Special Operations Vehicle or RSOV was a cool option, built by Range Rover. Much larger than the M151 but able to carry much more. As such it's too big for my needs. |
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[#10]
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[#11]
Quoted:
Great idea for a hog hunting vehicle. The US Military had a IR illuminator they used on the M151 series that looked and mounted similar to the blackout drive light. A couple of these would probably work real well on the front fenders. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Great idea for a hog hunting vehicle. The US Military had a IR illuminator they used on the M151 series that looked and mounted similar to the blackout drive light. A couple of these would probably work real well on the front fenders. Have a couple of those sitting here brand new, but I'm thinking of putting them higher on the rollbar. I use my M151A1 for transportation at 3 gun matches. You guys may have even seen it at the Rockcastle Pro Am a few years back. Complete with "ballast." :) http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL615/4020916/23612160/407629761.jpg That's awesome, but somehow I missed it.. |
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[#12]
That's going to end up being a sweet hunting rig! Might think about some mounted steps for people riding in the back. Muddy and wet it can be challenging to load back up in the back with gear. That's the only thing I hate about my old fj.
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[#15]
Quoted:
A 320 Pan/Tilt thermal is just as functional for detection as a 640 is, the cost of the 640 is hardly worth it for detection as they both will see coyotes/hogs out a mile and you can use your other thermal/NV weapon/handheld gear for proper ID. The Flir M-324 Pan/Tilt on my UTV costs half that of an identical 640 system and have it hooked up to mini-DVR all the time too, plus it is built for extreme duty use on yachts, completely waterproof, dust proof, mud proof, shock proof, etc., has been a hell of a game changer out in the woods at night on the move or using it as a stand. View Quote Yeah- that's what I've been thinking of using; it was a smart choice. There are some features with this complete setup that are not available on other units, such as the ability to see where it's pointed while looking at the screen which is very handy at night if you can't see your camera. The problem where we hunt here in Texas is there are so many other animals in the fields that sorting the good from the bad is more important that overall detection of a heat source. Spotting the pigs between all the cows or being able to tell a coyote or pig from a laying down calf or bedded deer is the bulk of the work. So the options are to custom build something using maybe a 640 VUE?, pay for a complete 640 which as you mentioned is expensive, or go with a complete 320 system like you did. Going to wait until it's closer to go time with the truck before I decide in case prices come down further or FLIR introduces any new products in this category. |
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[#16]
That jeep will be a sweet ride, Ed, should be quite a fun project. Plus no glass to interfere with thermal or shooting direction either!
Pay close attention to the space requirements for the remote Pan/Tilt thermal install too, there is allot of requirements to consider once you decide on the unit you want to get and the accessories that go with it (there is a shitload of accessories as you can imagine for an expensive yacht install). I did my install myself, a professional yacht installer quoted me $1,500 for just the install, it is a job to consider all the variety of electrical components and getting them properly hooked up and situated space wise for easy use. There are allot of options, it took me two months talking to FLIR Marine before I decided on what I needed, could afford, and would fit properly for my utilitarian "land yacht" use. They even have I-Phone apps and a wireless broadcast system if you want that. A central computer actual runs the Pan/Tilt off an Ethernet cable, you can program it to do many different things. Main thing is to install a battery isolater from your main starter battery to an auxiliary battery to run all the IR/NV gear when the motor is off. I put a 35A/hr gel battery in the front and run all the thermal/NV/ FoxPro TruckPro gear off that and leave all other lights, accessories, etc. off the ignition switch. The auxiliary battery will power all the thermal/NV/E-caller for 12 hours before getting down to 12.4 volts, works just excellent and then charges back up on the way home. Be sure to install voltage meters so you don't get stranded and know the state of the batteries. The people at FLIR Marine were excellent to talk to, as were some yacht owner friends here in Florida who use them on their yachts offshore.... |
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[#17]
Quoted:
There are allot of options, it took me two months talking to FLIR Marine before I decided on what I needed, could afford, and would fit properly for my utilitarian "land yacht" use. They even have I-Phone apps and a wireless broadcast system if you want that. A central computer actual runs the Pan/Tilt off an Ethernet cable, you can program it to do many different things. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
There are allot of options, it took me two months talking to FLIR Marine before I decided on what I needed, could afford, and would fit properly for my utilitarian "land yacht" use. They even have I-Phone apps and a wireless broadcast system if you want that. A central computer actual runs the Pan/Tilt off an Ethernet cable, you can program it to do many different things. I'll definitely bug you on some of your land-yacht knowledge and experience when the time comes. Wireless would be nice to have if I didn't have to set up a server... Main thing is to install a battery isolater from your main starter battery to an auxiliary battery to run all the IR/NV gear when the motor is off. I put a 35A/hr gel battery in the front and run all the thermal/NV/ FoxPro TruckPro gear off that and leave all other lights, accessories, etc. off the ignition switch. The auxiliary battery will power all the thermal/NV/E-caller for 12 hours before getting down to 12.4 volts, works just excellent and then charges back up on the way home. Be sure to install voltage meters so you don't get stranded and know the state of the batteries. Military vehicles are 24V, so a separate battery for all the 12V based accessories will work well. The people at FLIR Marine were excellent to talk to, as were some yacht owner friends here in Florida who use them on their yachts offshore.... Like I said, I'll have to hit you up as there are not a lot of yachts here in Dallas. |
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[#18]
The Wi-Fi broadcast option is a small 12 volt Wi-Fi amp that broadcasts the FLIR video signal to your I-Phone/I-Pad via an App that allows you to see and control the Pan/Tilt up to a hundred plus yards away from the unit, so you can walk around inside your yacht and see the thermal video where ever you are.
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[#19]
Quoted:
The Wi-Fi broadcast option is a small 12 volt Wi-Fi amp that broadcasts the FLIR video signal to your I-Phone/I-Pad via an App that allows you to see and control the Pan/Tilt up to a hundred plus yards away from the unit, so you can walk around inside your yacht and see the thermal video where ever you are. View Quote Yeah if I was any closer to the ocean I think I would go for the yacht, but for now the 40 year old rust bucket will do. I can always bring the FLIR over to the yacht if I change my mind. |
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[#20]
Great project Ed...Looking forward in seeing all the cool heat gathering components!
Vic |
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[#21]
I like old jeep builds and I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes along. I seem to keep my UTV's in the shop anymore so I splurged and bought a wrangler with a Hard top and AC. What do you think you will have cost wise in the mechanical restore?
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[#22]
Quoted:
I like old jeep builds and I'm looking forward to seeing how this comes along. I seem to keep my UTV's in the shop anymore so I splurged and bought a wrangler with a Hard top and AC. What do you think you will have cost wise in the mechanical restore? View Quote Very hard to predict, especially before we start, but because we will be doing all the work ourselves, I'm sure it will be a fraction of what it could be. Restored M151s sell from $12k-20k. I can't imagine going over $10k on this including the vehicle purchase price (but not counting any night vision/thermal gear which will double the cost). Parts for the MUTTs are relatively inexpensive and widely available as New Old Stock (meaning new parts from 40 years ago) and its systems are fairly simple as is working on it. It's already set up for night operations more so than any new UTV or commercial Jeep. It also has 4 wheel independent suspension, and is really easy to just hose off inside and out for cleanup. You could buy an already done up night vision/thermal new commercial Jeep like Starwood made for the US Night Vision booth at SHOT a coupe of years ago for $100k+, but then I'd be afraid to get in it with dirty boots. Also keep in mind we will be doing way more than is necessary. This vehicle will run as it is today and I could hunt with it tonight. It doesn't NEED anything. This is purely a project for the sake of the project, and to make sure it doesn't need any major work for the next few years by making it "like new" or better, and making it tailored to the type of hunting we do and the gear we carry. It will also look good should we decide to show it at any events. |
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[#23]
Fwiw, there are 24v to 12v marine battery chargers available to keep your 12v battery for your thermal charged.
JPK |
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[#24]
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[#25]
Very cool.
They were around at Camp Geiger when I went through infantry school but none at my straight leg infantry unit. Just CuCV and a soft early hummer. Later I got in the guard and they still had AMC ones. I only drove them a couple times before they were yanked. I transfer to an MP unit and they were literally already loaded on flat beds for turn in. Like the M1 helmet I just missed on. I chuckle at the young soldiers bitching about the modern helmet system. Try going back to a web liner for the cranial irritation. That said I'm glad I never got to test any helmet against an IED. ETA to get back on topic I'd look real hard at tearing out every brake line and replacing it. In NY salty road country you know you get about ten years out of them. I have no idea how long they hold up in the unsalty but humid south. You say you have rust though. Much easier to do brake lines without crap in the way. |
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[#26]
Very cool, looking forward to seeing it morph into a super hogmobile!
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[#27]
Quoted:
Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. View Quote No one ever thought to add limit straps? |
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[#28]
Quoted:
No one ever thought to add limit straps? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. No one ever thought to add limit straps? I think they did, with the A1, but the A2 went to a trailing arm rear suspension which "fixed" the problem. |
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[#29]
Ed, Flir has a rebate on their Pan/Tilts until the end of the year!
It can take a licking and keep on ticking as it is totally waterproof, dust proof, mud proof, shock proof, vibration proof, etc, etc, etc., ie it is a kickass hardcore instrument. Anyhow, when I purchased mine from Flir RayMarine, they had a rebate on it and FLIR sent me a check for $1K back after I installed it. They have the same program going on now until the end of the year if anyone is interested in adding thermal to a vehicle: http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=13331 |
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[#30]
Quoted: No one ever thought to add limit straps? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. No one ever thought to add limit straps? |
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[#31]
Quoted:
Ed, Flir has a rebate on their Pan/Tilts until the end of the year! It can take a licking and keep on ticking as it is totally waterproof, dust proof, mud proof, shock proof, vibration proof, etc, etc, etc., ie it is a kickass hardcore instrument. Anyhow, when I purchased mine from Flir RayMarine, they had a rebate on it and FLIR sent me a check for $1K back after I installed it. They have the same program going on now until the end of the year if anyone is interested in adding thermal to a vehicle: http://www.raymarine.com/view/?id=13331 View Quote Great... the kids will have to go without Xmas presents again this year! But we can have pork for xmas dinner... |
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[#35]
Quoted: No one ever thought to add limit straps? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Big thing is make sure you have enough shit packed in it, or add ballast if you don't to keep the rear end weighted down so the tires don't "tuck under" and flip it. I never got to drive them, but it was a big deal to make sure this was done. As an IFAV driver that was one of the main training points that you DIDN'T have to do that. No one ever thought to add limit straps? We were hoping to get bad ass DPV's (there were border patrol style buggies in the motor pool for awhile), instead we got gangstered out Mercedes. |
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[#36]
Weather is warm and sunny- you guys have either M151 on the road now?
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[#37]
Quoted:
Weather is warm and sunny- you guys have either M151 on the road now? View Quote #1 is within days of being ready. Engine and transmission rebuilt and back in. Custom trailer for it just needs fenders on it and I can go register it. Mutt mostly just needs new exhaust, batteries, and fluids before we fire it up and adjust everything Waiting on some small parts like fuel filters; it's amazing how much people modified in order to keep it running over the years. Trying to restore to stock as much as possible, at least on this first one. |
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[#38]
Quoted:
#1 is within days of being ready. Engine and transmission rebuilt and back in. Custom trailer for it just needs fenders on it and I can go register it. Mutt mostly just needs new exhaust, batteries, and fluids before we fire it up and adjust everything Waiting on some small parts like fuel filters; it's amazing how much people modified in order to keep it running over the years. Trying to restore to stock as much as possible, at least on this first one. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Weather is warm and sunny- you guys have either M151 on the road now? #1 is within days of being ready. Engine and transmission rebuilt and back in. Custom trailer for it just needs fenders on it and I can go register it. Mutt mostly just needs new exhaust, batteries, and fluids before we fire it up and adjust everything Waiting on some small parts like fuel filters; it's amazing how much people modified in order to keep it running over the years. Trying to restore to stock as much as possible, at least on this first one. Cool I can't wait to see this build up and running. |
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[#39]
FLIR is having their 2016 Thermal Night Vision rebate program now too if you need a Pan-Tilt thermal for your Jeep!
http://www.raymarine.com/GearUp/ |
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[#40]
Quoted:
FLIR is having their 2016 Thermal Night Vision rebate program now too if you need a Pan-Tilt thermal for your Jeep! http://www.raymarine.com/GearUp/ http://www.raymarine.com/uploadedImages/Products/Cameras/Thermal_Cameras/T300_and_T400/Thermal-camera-group.jpg View Quote +1000. We're getting the 640 version very soon! |
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[#41]
Quoted:
+1000. We're getting the 640 version very soon! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
FLIR is having their 2016 Thermal Night Vision rebate program now too if you need a Pan-Tilt thermal for your Jeep! http://www.raymarine.com/GearUp/ http://www.raymarine.com/uploadedImages/Products/Cameras/Thermal_Cameras/T300_and_T400/Thermal-camera-group.jpg +1000. We're getting the 640 version very soon! Mine works like a charm, never leave home without it! |
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[#43]
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[#44]
I drove one as the Btry CDRs driver in 1983. I could take that thing paces I couldn't take a HMMWV.
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[#45]
Quoted:
I drove one as the Btry CDRs driver in 1983. I could take that thing paces I couldn't take a HMMWV. View Quote That's the whole advantage of the MUTT is its ability to go anywhere; due in part to its size. That is also the drawback: you can't carry 4 passengers and gear as easily and comfortably as a HMMWV, so it depends on your terrain, load, and mission. The correct solution is to get both. |
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[#46]
Hog hunting suggestions:
1. Removable elevated seating in the back with gun rest mounted to roll cage. 2. Accessible cold beverage locker. |
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[#47]
I know what this thread is....Ed's way to shamelessly bump up his port count!
No suggestions that skypup can't throw in so good luck and hurry! Edit...actually one thing I though of...perhaps electric fans and a transmission cooler. I have a feeling that the motor and trans will get warm creeping through hills and hollers looking for Babe. |
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[#48]
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[#50]
Quoted:
I have used a variety of Thermal on my UTVs over the years from PathfindIR to M625. The dashmounted LCD screen is what helps the most, allowing all riders to see what is going on. <a href="http://s839.photobucket.com/user/Umbrarian/media/2013%20John%20Deere%20855D/IMG_2304_zpsb1d94fc1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/2013%20John%20Deere%20855D/IMG_2304_zpsb1d94fc1.jpg</a> Also, if you are going to drive I^2, there is no substitute for dedicated IR lights. Mine are from Rigid. <a href="http://s839.photobucket.com/user/Umbrarian/media/2013%20John%20Deere%20855D/IMG_2282_zps605452a9.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i839.photobucket.com/albums/zz314/Umbrarian/2013%20John%20Deere%20855D/IMG_2282_zps605452a9.jpg</a> View Quote Nice and a BIG +1 for the RIGID gear! Vic |
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