I agree, 7.62x39 if less than 75 yds is good on the AR15 Platform. However, my preference is the 5.56x45mm simply because I like to send them fast and longer range than what I feel the 7.62 is accurate for. Running shots are harder at longer distances with that caliber as well due to velocity loss.

No, most people would feel  that is not enough evidence to conclude or form a viable opinion. It would take many kills in varying conditions and shot placement with video evidence a plus.

Most of the time, it comes down to temporary wound channel. A Blackout just does not hack it when Hog Killing is concerned. Soft tissue tests like ballistic gelatin might show the BLK a performer. But field tests as seen in my operation and others in this thread show different.

Sorry Dude...

 

Couldn't agree more.  Just wish I could find a platform that is optic/laser/supressor friendly.

10 isn't a drop in the bucket compared to what many on here have killed.

Subs work fine when you get a good shot.  That is pretty easy to do on the first shot.  The real test is when they start to scatter and you have to take running shots.  Not real easy to rack up head shots when they are running.  The difficulty is compounded by having to aim using a ir laser or looking through an eotech with a head mounted pvs.  

Do yourself a favor and use supers.  No one is saying you need a sledge hammer.  But sometimes a framing hammer works better than a tack hammer.

Well my "field" test show that with a properly designed subsonic bullet the permanent wound cavity is quite devastating.  But I get your point.  any thing accomplished will not be good enough because you will keep moving the goal posts.

It amazes me still.  you could not get it to work.  you have been very vague as to what you used.  I keep stressing that if you are going to do it, it needs to be with a properly expanding bullet that will expand at sub velocities.  you keep saying it is not doable, yet I am doing it, not sure if that means you were using the wrong bullet, or my bullets are magically touched.

Of course I have been told countless times by men with much, much more hunting knowledge and experience then I had when I started this venture, that it won't work, yet here I am getting it to work.  and I have documented it quite extensively except of course slow motion video of impact and expansion.  

Tell me again how this kind of damage from a 247gr cast bullet with a 3/4 deep by 1/8 wide hollow point is not going to be effective. leaving the barrel at 980fps and impacting 50 yds later



or this from a properly designed jacketed hollow point. leaving the barrel at 935 fps and impacting 50 yds later



or this  one from the same bullet recovered in the opposite shoulder then impact



Here is a picture of 2 recovered bullets.  the one on the left traveled thu the upper portion of the lungs high enough to hit the spine and was recovered just under the skin on the opposite side, the on on the right was recovered from a fresh road kill experiment.



here is the permanet wound cavity from a 247gr cast bullet. still pretty devastating.  I don't recommend non expanding, but with correct shot placement it will work.


oh right it did not work for you so it can't work for anyone.  

I simply think you used the wrong bullet.  that is not an ammo failure, that is a hunter failure.

sorry dude.....

I do await your moving of the goal posts again.

And that is why I question his blanket statement that  300 blk is no good for hunting. If you don't want to do subs, the black-tip and some others have prove to be very, very effective actually in the field.

If one either cannot or will not take the time to understand and test with subs, to especially include using a correctly designed bullet,  then that is the best advice.  but as some on here are claiming that hardly makes the 300blk a useless hunting caliber

Subs?  LOL....

Wait, are your cast bullets jacketed?

No sir i have used both a cast hollow point and a jacketed hollow point.  I do powder coat the cast bullets though.

Looks like a thin skinned animal in those pics to me, not a Hog. Totally different. Then again, how far did the animal run? Sure, every caliber discussed here, if fired on a Hog will eventually kill it, but is it going to run up in the thick 200 yds. where it is not recoverable? Temporary wound channel is how you bring down an animal if no bones are hit. Normally it takes velocity to achieve it.

Bushman, we popped the cherry on a big plantation last year. So most Hogs were old gnarly Boars. This is where you see a dramatic difference in the penetration issues of the 300BLK. The smaller pigs are more like the deer or thin skinned animals. On Boars over 175 lbs or so, past 50 yds, good clean shots had less effect. A lot more hit and runs.

You just get a lot of velocity loss past 50 yds on the 300BLK off an already anemic muzzle velocity.

I really do not see why folks defend an anemic cartridge or any other gear that is marginal. I, like others, have invested in the 300 BLK. Not just one rifle barrel and a few rounds, thousands of dollars in ammo, Suppressor R&D, etc..I have built rifles for customers. I am not sure if I can think of one person who is satisfied with the caliber.

My conclusion is that there are much better choices on the AR15 platform for Hog Killing. In all areas that matter.

If they work for you then more power to you.  My experience has been much different.  It's interesting that the guys on here that do quite a bit of hog shooting all seem to have the same opinion..........

I do most my shooting at hogs on the run. I figured out the lead difference using subs. I barely have time to reload much less cast bullets. Thats why I've decided to abandon the 300. I understand it can work great shooting a stationary pig in the head. Thats just not my type of hunting. Best of luck with your hunts.

50 yds or less

You keep missing my point.  I keep emphasizing, so I will do it again.  If one is going to use the 300 blk subsonic.  one needs to use a properly designed bullet.  why does that point keep getting glossed over?



I asked earlier and maybe you missed it, but what bullet and or bullets were you using?



starting out at 1000fps you loose approximately  60 tp 70 fps at 100 yds.  I never claimed for a second it was a long range cartridge, especially in subsonic

comparing a 110 barnes black tip and a 7.62x39 hornady VMAX,

hornady vmax 7.62x39

barnes black tip 300 blk

their velocities and energy are almost matched.

and you said



now how can you say the 300 blk is useless and then say the 7.62x39 is good.



Well I have spent some money, apparently not as much as you, but I get it to work. not sure what I am doing wrong

and contrary to what others may think I am saying, I don't discount that at all.  But I also see that most of the ones that say it does not work also, are using the wrong bullet.

I realize that there are a lot of things that have to be considered, when using subs, I also never claimed it was for everybody, nor anything else even remotely related.  I have emphasized.  if one wants to use 300blk subs for hunting, deer or hogs, then one needs to use the right bullet, if not then more then likely it is not going to be effective.  I don't get why that point keeps getting missed.

Lets look at the .223.  for decades it was not considered a viable deer or hog cartridge.  Why?  because people were using available bullets that were not effective.  the cartridge was looked at as ineffective.  As bullet make up improved, that changed.  bullets were developed that were not designed like varmint bullets and they were effective.  the stayed together to penetrate deeper and leave a good wound channel.  Now it is considered a decent deer and hog round.  What changed? bullet design.  

I am saying the same thing.  A 300blk subsonic with a non expanding bullet is not a consistently effective round.  one needs to use a bullet designed to work at the velocities obtained. and to do the damage needed to do what needs to be done.

And your hunts also.

are you  considering  a 6.8spc, as you have already mentioned  Great reputation and a lot of good bullets have been designed for it.  very very effective cartridge.  seems to work good out of short barrels and suppresses pretty well also.

6.8 is all I use. Sellier and bellot 110 gr.  Hpbt. I use it on pigs and deer. And at$18 per 20 rnds it not too expensive.

WTF!!!!






 

We narrowed it down to twist rate and the fact the 7.62 is still going about 100fps faster. Most 300 BLK are built using a tighter twist to run the heavy sub sonic bullets. Most 7.62 are 10 twist or slower. Longer range hits using the 7.62 have proven less fruitful.

However, given the ammo selection of both the 300 BLK and the 7.62, the 7.62 is inherently more accurate (over a broader ammo selection) and hovers around 1.5moa no matter what ammo.

The 300 BLK seems to only like Hornady ammo. Everything else we tried you get flyers opening groups to as much as 3moa.

The 7.62x39 out of a 16" barrel has a muzzle velocity of about 2350 using 123 gr ammo. A 300 BLK is slower than that with 110 gr.

When I zero my thermals I use a 2 foot square mild steel plate that is 5/8" thick at 50 yds. Here is what we notice no matter the ammo:

Zeroing on Steel

5.56x45mm 16":(no matter the ammo)
Dime sized crater approx. 3/8" deep

5.56x45mm SBR 12.5":(no matter the ammo)
Dime sized crater approx. 5/16" deep


7.62x39 16" super sonic:
nickel  sized crater approx. 5/16" deep

7.62x39 12" SBR super sonic
dime size "Ding" approx. 1/16" deep.

300blk 16":
Dime sized crater 1/8" deep

300BLK 8.5" SBR super sonic:
paint smear. Literally spray paint over it and you would never know where the hit was.

I know this is not a scientific test. But seeing this aside our field results, shows me that the 300 and the 7.62, are on the edge of having enough velocity. Those 30 cal bullets down range really slow down.

Seeing that the 6.5 Grendel is by far the best option when using the AR15 platform, proves to me over and over that velocity is needed to consistently stop and Kill Thick skinned animals like Hogs. Grendel 123 gr Hornady 2550 FPS.

 

LOL I did not notice that till you pointed it out

How far did she run??  Was she hard to track???



















Need to call that round "The Kukri"!!!  

Tracked her for 200 yrds lol

I love mine got a few with hornady red tips

I've hunted with near a dozen people with the 300 sub and supers. the 110 gr. v-max took lead as far as smacking  them on the ground.

I agree with the post in this thread, its 2400 fps just isn't fast enough to make up for my decline in reaction time, I use a 90 gr at 2900 from a 6.8 sometimes.

ok now as far as guiding first timers , maybe not to hunt hogs but to see hogs. they dang sure never shot at runners, so getting that first shot at standing hog is there dream. I just started using two 300 sub guns this year, lol yes two of them.
what my results are in most cases is that we get on the hogs more, sometimes 5 minutes after even 3 to 5 shots.
what this does is give the newbees extra chances

if I have one client the rule is to use 6.8 supressed, but if there are two its the 300 all the way.
I mostly hunt cut outs in thick ass woods in turn only got a few shots off anyway. it wasn't still I started hunting a dairy this year that I realized how easy these wide open video posted on hear were to do.

folks need to re-read there post on this thread, they state the use of different uses for different set ups.
one poster got on three are four different groups in one night . well being quiet didn't help that out. duh.

I'm thedehoganator and proved  this message

First night with 300 I got on three groups. But I have also hsd it happen with my 6.8 unsuppresed so I'm not sure if that helped or not. It couldnt have hurt. But if I had my 6.8 I definitely would of had more pigs in the back of my truck.

no doubt there, seen you stack em up before, lol.

no doubt there, seen you stack em up before, lol.  somebody said that there is just no place for a 300 sub on a hog hunt, well it's  hard headiness.

Upon thinking about it, I would rather decimate one souder thanshoot a few out of three sounders. That leaves a lot of now educated pigs roaming around. Hopefully the buzzards got them though. Like I said I heard thuds but they just kept running. A buddy of mine said he has better luck with the amax.