 OLSKER 
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Joined: Jan 2012  CA, USA
 Posts: 2 Feedback: 0% (0) |
Posted: 6/3/2012 8:46:41 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT I'm headed to Yosemite and will be camping in one of the more remote areas (i.e. not North Pines etc.). I understand that while unlikely, there are occasionally interactions with black bears. I would like to insure the safety of my campsite as we will have at least 3 children under the age of 2. There will be no toddlers or others of a young age in our party. Here's my questions: 1. Should I take the SKS or AR-15? (leaning toward the SKS) 2. For the SKS I have some old Norinco rounds and just a few 123 grain Remington. Should I buy more Remington or others––or are the Norinco rounds good enough to get the job done? 3. Are there any dangers/considerations for bringing a firearm camping with us? Thanks in advance for your help! |
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Posted: 6/3/2012 9:56:44 PM
[Last Edit: 6/3/2012 10:04:07 PM by Him]
In on this one.
I would surely pick the SKS, but I'm just not real sure it is much of a bear stopper. |
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Posted: 6/3/2012 10:41:07 PM
Neither one is proven bear stopper so I won't voice my opinion there.
For a while I worked and lived in a national park (Grand Canyon), and while officially is it legal to have a firearm the majority of park rangers feel that they are the only ones who should be armed. If a ranger notices or even suspects you have a weapon be prepared to get harassed. It was nothing at the canyon to see 4 or 5 National Park Service LEO vehicles along side the road behind a vehicle just to issue the driver a traffic violation. After dealing with the National Park Service I have almost zero respect for it. They are even less competent than the National Forest Service. |
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Posted: 6/3/2012 10:55:15 PM
[Last Edit: 6/3/2012 10:55:47 PM by Him]
Originally Posted By Chacal87:
..........is it legal to have a firearm the majority of park rangers feel that they are the only ones who should be armed. Surprise, surprise! |
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50-140
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Joined: Jul 2006 AK, USA
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Posted: 6/3/2012 11:22:41 PM
I would lean toward the sks, but also factor in which you're more accurate with.
Most black bears in a wilderness environment are going to flee at loud noises, a couple rounds in their direction and they generally move pretty quickly.
Just keep a clean camp, hang your food, practice good housekeeping at your campsites and you won't give bears any reason to come by.
From what I've read, Yellowstone has a "you can pack it, but you can't use it" policy on firearms. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:27:33 AM
Thanks. I plan on being discrete. I don't have any reason to put myself on blast. I'm only interested in the safety of my party under what is sure to be the rarest of circumstances.
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:30:41 AM
As for which rifle I'm more accurate with, it's definitely the AR... Plus I've got optics and all the goodies for the AR. While I'm quite competent with the SKS, I've only got iron sights. More to think about I suppose eh?
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Posted: 6/4/2012 10:09:11 AM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2012 10:09:54 AM by Him]
Define "optics and goodies".
If a scope, you may want to rethink your choice. I still wouldn't pick a .223 as a bear stopper. As for loud noises, etc., I'm sure you have heard the joke about "Bear shit contains little bells." |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 10:18:41 AM
Originally Posted By OLSKER:
As for which rifle I'm more accurate with, it's definitely the AR... Plus I've got optics and all the goodies for the AR. While I'm quite competent with the SKS, I've only got iron sights. More to think about I suppose eh? As I see it, if I'm in a national park and feel that my well being or the well being of a loved one is being threatened by a bear it will be a close shot. I'd rather have iron sights for a close quarters quick shot than try to find a fast moving target in a magnified sight. Personally bears have never bothered me. Mountain lions and moose have always been higher on the list of concerns than bears. Keep in mind that you're more likely to run into a two legged threat in a national park than a four legged one. They seem to attract all sorts of crazies. I'm willing to bet that the park gestapo would be more forgiving over you shooting a human threat than an animal threat. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 10:21:25 AM
Originally Posted By Him:
Define "optics and goodies". If a scope, you may want to rethink your choice. I still wouldn't pick a .223 as a bear stopper. As for loud noises, etc., I'm sure you have heard the joke about "Bear shit contains little bells." Smells like pepper spray too 
As I understand it pepper spray works great for bears the first time, but you don't want to be the second guy to try it. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 1:15:37 PM
[Last Edit: 6/5/2012 2:23:13 AM by OLSKER]
"optics and goodies"= non-magnified, parallax free red dot sight, pistol grip (which I use in half-tard), sling etc.
This would most definitely be a close quarter issue because if it's far enough away to get scoped then it's far enough away not to be a threat. Bear mace/pepper spray is not allowed in Yosemite. Roger that on the "crazies"––but I have different measures at my disposal for such a threat. Thank you all for the input––still not seeing much in the way of any answers to my actual questions but y'all are a lot of fun! |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 2:22:34 PM
Actually....it may be because not many of us think either of your choices is a particularly good one.
Also, your "threat assessment" may be a bit naive. Have you ever seen a pissed-off bear? I didn't think so. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 3:49:43 PM
I'm only able to work with what I got––hence the limited framework of the question.
My "threat assessment" may be a bit naive? To be sure, it is naive. I'm not an avid outdoorsman. In fact I haven't been camping in 15 years. That is precisely why I posted in a thread that might be read by those who have greater experience (almost any) than I. If you have something of substance to add I would be grateful. If you feel it necessary to berate me for asking dumb questions then I'd pose this question to you: How else does one learn but by asking questions? As for the question about whether I've ever seen a pissed off bear... I, like most city dwellers, have never seen a bear in the wild––let alone a pissed off bear––nor do I ever hope to! Don't get me wrong, seeing a bear in the wild would be a thrill but I think my camping experience will be awesome without it. In any case, I'll continue to thank those of you who have meaningful contributions. Cheers! |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 4:10:50 PM
Originally Posted By OLSKER:
Thank you all for the input––still not seeing much in the way of any answers to my actual questions..........! We tried. |
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Posted: 6/4/2012 7:26:19 PM
And your help is greatly appreciated Him. Thank you again!
For the rest of you altruists: Does the 7.62x39 round matter? (e.g. steel core vs. lead) Are there other considerations I need to be aware of? |
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backbencher
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:02:20 PM
[Last Edit: 6/4/2012 9:04:51 PM by backbencher]
I'd go w/ the highest penetration potential you have - the SKS. I would buy 'Merican lead core FMJ. I'd test fire the SKS w/ that ammo, & the magazine you'll be taking. If there was ever a time to jump through the 922r hoops for the SKS to fit a 30 round banana mag on it, this would be the time. You're in .44" Magnum energy ranges w/ the SKS, which(the .44" Magnum) is apparently what some Alaskans carry around as bear backup.
Higher cost options include: .458"SOCOM/.450"Bushmaster/.50"Grendel upper for the AR Bolt gun in .30"-06 & up (available @ Wal-Mart/pawn shops inexpensively) 12 ga pump w/ slugs (available @ Wal-Mart/pawn shops for less than bolt guns) There are some heavier 7.62x39 rounds (150 gn) out there, but my brother has cut a sample of 1 up, and it was not well constructed. I'd go w/ 'Merican ball, if you can't talk the S-3 into some heavier bear medicine. Gig 'em, backbencher |
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MTNmyMag
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Joined: Feb 2004 TX, USA
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Posted: 6/4/2012 9:08:10 PM
The Ar and get you some 52 grn TSX rounds.
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Posted: 6/6/2012 2:54:39 AM
Originally Posted By backbencher:
12 ga pump w/ slugs (available @ Wal-Mart/pawn shops for less than bolt guns) +1, good inexpensive bear medicine. To specifically answer your question, the SKS would be be my choice of what you have on hand. Lead tip ammo if you can find such a beast, you want expansion and energy transfer. No need for a 30 round mag though. Really unless something is horribly wrong with the bear, you're not in much danger. The way to get yourself into the most trouble with a bear is to get between a sow and her cubs. Bears typically give warnings both verbally and with body language. They swat their paws in the air, snap the jaws, dig up earth, grunt, and woof just to name a few. Do things in camp like hanging food high (even snacks in your tent can attract anything from ants to bears), have a fire if permitted, keep your trash away from your camp (preferably in a bear proof container), double bag trash and food (to cut down on smell), etc. Bears have a sense of smell that is estimated to be 7 times that of a dog. ANYTHING that smells strongly can attract them. I've seen bags torn open by bears with nothing chewed on but a stick of deodorant. They break into cars, cabins, etc to get at things. Prevention is really the key. Typically when I deal with bears it's on the other end, trying to attract them. Bear baiting is still legal in Idaho, and I work for an outfitter that does a lot of bear hunts. Any kind of grease, fruit, scented hygiene product, pet food, table scraps, food wrappers so on and so forth can bring them in. |
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Posted: 6/8/2012 6:03:54 PM
Something to consider. The use of Bear Spray is illegal in Yosemite. That's right, spray the bear that's trying to eat you, go to jail. Now, you can carry concealed if you are licensed, but make darned sure the regs allow the possesion of long guns.
Also consider this about yosemite, there are more "rangers" that Carter has little liver pills in that "park". Even thinking about violating one of the thousands, yes there are that many, rules/laws will get you into serious trouble. If you want the Disney version of the great outdoors it's a nice place to visit. Otherwise there are many better places to go in California. |
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