|
|
Posted: 11/24/2009 8:32:32 PM
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:04:29 PM
In just about every film or video that i have seen of African Safaris, the guide or his crew are armed with FNFALs. I reckon if they have faith in 308, a 45/70 would do just fine. Can you shoot that rifle well? Is it pleasant to shoot? Can you get a lot of trigger time with it before going?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:31:42 PM
I read an article in a gun rag a month or two ago about a Big Game Guide who carried a Marlin in 45-70 as his 'fail safe' for Cape buffalo. I know it was somethng on a Boddington trip.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/24/2009 9:46:01 PM
[Last Edit: 11/24/2009 9:47:50 PM by tinytim54]
What are you planning to hunt?
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/24/2009 10:02:58 PM
What are you going to be hunting? For plains game I should think it doesn't have the trajectory, if it's for dangerous game... well the standard there is .458 or .450 and they put a 480-500gr bullet at 2100 or so feet a second. They have 500 feet a second on the .45/70.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2009 5:10:48 PM
Thanks for the replies.
There is no definite plan as of yet, everything is in research stage. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/25/2009 6:16:51 PM
For a modern rifle, the .45-70 can be loaded to impressive specs. If you are content with a costly double rifle, it will serve for short ranges.
Using a single-shot for dangerous game is not a good idea, no matter how good your guide and staff may be. If the game is not dangerous, then the .45-70 will do nicely. Please consult the regs of your destination about importing/exporting your rifle and ammo before going further. Since the .45-70 case is rimmed, use in a bolt-action mag-fed rifle is problematic . |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/26/2009 4:36:29 PM
If you can hit a paper plate with it at 200 yards every time from field positions, not bench rest, then go ahead and take it. Just remember that if you shoot at an animal and draw blood but the animal runs off then you pay the trophy fee for it regardless of whether or not it is ever found. Wounded animals can cost you a day or two of lost hunting while the trackers search for it plus the trophy fee either way.
So why not use a sensible centerfire rifle with a good scope in something like 30-06 or 7mm and save yourself a lot of grief on your first safari. Then on your second or third safari you can play games with an unfamiliar 45-70. A 45-70 has a very pronounced arcing trajectory which makes it difficult to hit with at unknown distances. Difficult for someone who is very familiar with it. If it is your uncle's rifle and you have not shot it a bunch at various ranges then you are making things harder on yourself than necessary. When you arrive at camp you will be taken to "check zero" on your rifle. This is really a shooting test so the PH can judge your shooting abilities with your rifle. If he suspects that your abilities are very short range then expect to hunt water holes and take whatever comes by chance to drink water. If you are a long range metallic silouette shooter with Sharps rifles and you really know what you are doing with antique cartridges then by all means take a 45-70 and have fun with it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/5/2009 4:03:43 PM
I'm no pro but I do know in some places for dangerous game there are minimum calibers by law, I think .375 H&H is that minimum very often.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/5/2009 10:36:11 PM
Often there is an energy level that has to be met as well.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/5/2009 11:44:43 PM
Do yourself and your PH a favor and leave the 45-70 home. It is not adequate for dangerous (big 5) game and will force you to pass up a large percentage of shots at plains game due to its short range.
I saw a poll of PH's recently. They recommended a .375 H&H or .416 for the big five and a .300 mag or .30-06 for plains game. the .375 & .30-06 will be much easier to re-supply if you and your ammo get separated in Africa, but the .416 and .300 mag have better reputations for getting the job done. The PMP plant in South Africa produces .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H&H. Generally you can also find .300 H&H, but not as easily as .300 Win Mag. I wouldn't recommend any other .300 mags as you probably won't find ammo if yours gets separated. The .338 WIn Mag is probably an ideal choice for larger plains game and is available there, but not as common as .300 Win Mag. .416 Rem Mag can be found, but not as easily as .375 H&H. I think you can find .416 Rigby too, but it might not be easy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/7/2009 12:34:06 PM
[Last Edit: 12/7/2009 12:34:37 PM by Headless_T_Gunner]
Originally Posted By Brazos_Jack:
Do yourself and your PH a favor and leave the 45-70 home. It is not adequate for dangerous (big 5) game and will force you to pass up a large percentage of shots at plains game due to its short range. I saw a poll of PH's recently. They recommended a .375 H&H or .416 for the big five and a .300 mag or .30-06 for plains game. the .375 & .30-06 will be much easier to re-supply if you and your ammo get separated in Africa, but the .416 and .300 mag have better reputations for getting the job done. The PMP plant in South Africa produces .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H&H. Generally you can also find .300 H&H, but not as easily as .300 Win Mag. I wouldn't recommend any other .300 mags as you probably won't find ammo if yours gets separated. The .338 WIn Mag is probably an ideal choice for larger plains game and is available there, but not as common as .300 Win Mag. .416 Rem Mag can be found, but not as easily as .375 H&H. I think you can find .416 Rigby too, but it might not be easy. mdb212 Your title says "big game". If you are talking big plains game such as eland, kudu, zebra, then sure it will kill them. If you are talking about the big five dangerous game or big six if you include hippo, then NO, DO NOT TAKE IT. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/10/2009 12:26:58 PM
Thanks for all the replies.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2009 11:29:35 AM
The 45-70 with modern loads has taken the big five, so what is the problem with it for dangerous game?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2009 1:10:19 PM
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
The 45-70 with modern loads has taken the big five, so what is the problem with it for dangerous game? It's marginal on the big five. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/11/2009 10:11:50 PM
Originally Posted By chewbacca:
The 45-70 with modern loads has taken the big five, so what is the problem with it for dangerous game? If you are hunting an animal that will do it's best to make a mud hole out of you and can make a mud hole out of you if you wound it then you probably should hunt it with a rifle that is capable of stopping a charge. Although the 45-70 is certainly capable of killling the big five, it is not in the class of rifles known for stopping charges from the big five. To be able to stop a charge reliably you should stick with the power level that has proven to be a reliable at doing that. It starts with 500 grains moving at 2150 fps and generates 5,000 foot pounds. For expample a 470 Nitro Express, 458 Lott, 500 Nitro Express. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:10:53 PM
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 11:23:28 PM by dcwilliams]
I would certainly disagree. A .45-70 is not good enough for the big 5? millions of buffalo were wiped from the plains with the big 50 and 45's and the buffalo didn't seem to know that they weren't shot with a uber giant, gotta have it, super duper .30 caliber bullet, and I would guarantee every big game animal on the planet has fallen to a .45-70, .45-110 (.450 BP Express was basically the english version of the .45-110 used in her majesties colonies). . A .50 or .45 caliber bullet doesn't need velocity to expand like a .30 - it is already larger than an expanded .30 cal bullet to begin with! I know an individual who just got back from an African safari recently and took kudu, wildebeast (black and blue), gemsbok, oryx, springbok, impala, water buffalo all with a .45-110 Black Powder Sharps - not even smokeless (which smokeless offers even more punch!). All shots were complete pass throughs and the PH's commented that they had never seen critters go down so fast - they had a TON of respect for the cartridge after that, and actually ordered one of their own. The .375 H&H looks bad on paper, but if you calculate using a real measurement of power (like the Taylor Knockout Value which adequately accounts for larger and heavier bullets), it is a 25% step down compared to a 500gr buffalo bore load out of the .45-70 (which is also only 6" low at 200yrds and plenty of power out even further). .45-70 is FINE for African game, and ANY game on the planet for that matter. Other guns may indeed have flatter shooting out past 200, but don't think for a minute that the .45-70 can't leave an almost half inch hole in both sides of any animal in the world.
Originally Posted By Brazos_Jack: Do yourself and your PH a favor and leave the 45-70 home. It is not adequate for dangerous (big 5) game and will force you to pass up a large percentage of shots at plains game due to its short range. I saw a poll of PH's recently. They recommended a .375 H&H or .416 for the big five and a .300 mag or .30-06 for plains game. the .375 & .30-06 will be much easier to re-supply if you and your ammo get separated in Africa, but the .416 and .300 mag have better reputations for getting the job done. The PMP plant in South Africa produces .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .375 H&H. Generally you can also find .300 H&H, but not as easily as .300 Win Mag. I wouldn't recommend any other .300 mags as you probably won't find ammo if yours gets separated. The .338 WIn Mag is probably an ideal choice for larger plains game and is available there, but not as common as .300 Win Mag. .416 Rem Mag can be found, but not as easily as .375 H&H. I think you can find .416 Rigby too, but it might not be easy. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:17:34 PM
I tell you what. YOU can go shoot an elephant in the face with a 45/70, I'm going to use a real .458.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:27:39 PM
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 11:29:38 PM by dcwilliams]
My elephant will be just as dead with a hole in its forehead and out the back of its head, and I'll be able to hold up a beer later while you are busy nursing your bruises :) Besides, everyone knows a .45-70 in the right gun can almost be loaded to .458 levels.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:28:45 PM
Jack Lott developed the 458 Lott in response to failures of the .458WM with 500gr bullets at 1900 fps.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:31:44 PM
[Last Edit: 12/15/2009 11:44:36 PM by dcwilliams]
Modern loading for the .45-70 (ruger #1 etc), you can load to almost 3,000 fps with a 540gr. bullet - PLENTY capable of killing any animal on the planet or stopping a charge as well as the .458, and still shoot lighter rounds capable of hunting everything else in the world thats not 3000-4000lbs. These rounds are NOT always levergun friendly, although some of the Garret cartridges are, and they document one big 5 hutn on their website using these in a .45-70 Marlin levergun :) check your reloading manuals or buy from a reputable online custom ammunition manufacturer like garret or buffalo bore.
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:48:21 PM
Off the top of my head Randy Garrets top load is a 540 at 1550 or so. A far cry from Normas Lott load––550 at 2100. I want to know how you could possibly fit enough powder in a 45 GOVT case to propel a 540 at 3000 when you can't possibly fit enough powder into a .460 Weatherby to do that. Hell, a 458WM is compressed firing a 500 at 2100!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:49:17 PM
Originally Posted By dcwilliams: Modern loading for the .45-70 (ruger #1 etc), you can load to almost 3,000 fps with a 540gr. bullet - PLENTY capable of killing any animal on the planet or stopping a charge as well as the .458, and still shoot lighter rounds capable of hunting everything else in the world thats not 3000lbs. These rounds are NOT levergun friendly :) check your reloading manuals or buy from a reputable online custom ammunition manufacturer like garret or buffalo bore. 3000 fps with a 540 grain bullet out of a 45-70? Garrett lists their 540 at 1550 fps. Buffalo Bore lists a 500 grain at 1625 fps. Please, show me a reloading manual or vendor who has 500+ grain bullets going 3000 fps out of a 45-70. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/15/2009 11:54:34 PM
Let me add, if I was going on safari I'd be looking for either a .416 Rigby or .416 Remington Magnum, or maybe even the .416 Ruger that's coming out. I've read a ton of hunting and shooting mags this past year, if only because I can't go hunting or plinking and feel the need to stay connected with the sport, and the gun mag consensus seems to be that the .416s provide the best combination of weight/speed/penetration. Again, this is just me summing up what a handful of gunwriters have written, but they made a good argument.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/16/2009 12:06:27 AM
Try here..... these were taken with a .45-70 using Garrett cartridges.....
.45-70 African kills...... |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/16/2009 12:08:28 AM
Originally Posted By javelinahunter: Try here..... these were taken with a .45-70 using Garrett cartridges..... .45-70 African kills...... No elephant? ![]() |
|