Bear with me here, I'm a duck hunting newb.  I've been out 3 times in the last few weeks and yesterday was the first time I was able to put pellets into a bird.  I bagged 2 in the air and each time I hit them solidly enough for feathers to fly and to knock them to the water.  However, both times they were still alive when they hit the water but were retrieved by a dag.  My hunting buddy told me that they're not always going to drop dead in the air, but the conservationist in me wants to make sure any animal I harvest doesn't suffer.  Relevant data: I'm shooting a Browning Citori Lightning (12 ga, 26", top IC, bottom skeet.  Not ideal but its a damn nice gun) at 25-30 yards using Federal blue box 3" #4 waterfowl loads.  First, how often do you get a clean kill in the air that doesn't require additional shots or other methods to kill the bird?  Second, is this a matter of plain old poor marksmanship, equipment choices, ammo selection, or just how it goes?

It happens quite often, ducks are much tougher than birds like pheasant or grouse. Unless you're hunting mostly teal, I'd rethink your ammo choice. #4 is kinda small for most ducks. Use #2 or #3. Also try something with more speed. With steel shot, it's the speed that kills. Most premium steel shot loads are now traveling 1500fps or more. We've had good luck with Federal Black Cloud as far as killing birds cleanly, but it has a very tight pattern. Tight patterns are good, but can be bad if they're too tight and you're hunting close-in birds over decoys. You'll either miss or tear them up badly if under 25 yds. I've been using Hevi-Metal for the past 2 seasons, and I like it better than Black Cloud. A little wider pattern, but not too wide. Winchester Blindside is good also, a hunting partner uses it. Then there's Remington Hypersonic. It's pretty damn fast, but it kicks like a mule. All of these sell for about $20 for 25.

You also didn't say if your Browning is 2-3/4" or 3" chamber.  Premium duck loads are a little harder to find in 2 3/4", and the 2 3/4" shells don't have as many pellets. If your gun isn't 3", I suggest getting one, like an 870 Express, Benelli Nova, Mossberg 500... they won't break the bank, and duck guns take a beating, so beating up a cheap one doesn't hurt as bad. I'd never expose a Citori to the conditions I hunt in. .

As said above,  I'd rethink your choice in loads.  #2 & 3 are what I like, thru an IC choke and I get a lot of clean kills. However, I don't take a lot of pass shots on long shots.  #4 is fine for smaller ducks like teal, but a bigger shot is needed for bigger ducks, IMO.

3" shells.  I'm shooting from shore since I don't have a set of waders yet so I try to be really careful about getting my gun too close to the water.  It gets a good wipedown before going back in the case every time.  I've got an old (1950's ish) 870 with a 28" fixed modified barrel that isn't rated for steel so if I could find some alternative non-toxic shot locally that would be an option for me.

These were 2 fairly large drake Mallards so what you're saying is making sense to me.  I'll have to pick up some 2's or 3's for my next outing.  This duck hunting shit is addicting as f&@%

I'd shoot a modified or full choke. That may put more shot in the ducks for a cleaner kill.

Really early in the season I don't have any trouble with 2 3/4"shells. The birds are still pretty stupid and decoy right in. After the first few weeks though I go to 3", either Black Cloud or Hevi Steel. #4's pattern really nice out of a IC in my AL390. If I'm going strictly for geese I use BB.

If you don't want the bird to suffer, there is nothing wrong with a kill shot. At least here in Illinois, we can shoot the duck on the water (I only do when its wounded). I would say about 50/50 for clean kills. I would definitely step up to 3" or even 3 1/2" if you're hunting geese too. Also, #2 shot is the way to go. I usually shoot federal black cloud which is awesome ammo. I recently bought a box of Kent silver steel, 3/4 didn't fire, primers were struck but no boom. So I would stick away from that economical ammo.

I agree with rfb45colt. I use black cloud #3 and #2. I swear by it and it will put the ducks down most of the time if you are shooting around 25 yards with a modified choke. I know that there are a lot of other choices but my step dad also swears by black cloud and he works for RCBS.

Steel deuces for ducks.  4s may break a wing or zap the CNS, but they do not penetrate the thoracic cavity of the bird to reliably stop them much past 20-25 yards.



For well feathered late season birds with lots of fat, I'll shoot steel 1s at mallards.

Hey thanks for the advice fellas.  It looks like I'll be picking out some new ammo for my next hunt.  Around these parts I think Blindside goes for a little cheaper than the Black Cloud so I might give those a try.

The 870 with a modified choke should handle steel. Maybe not but I don't see why.

If a duck I shoot hits the water and its head comes up, I shoot it again. They are tough, and I hate chasing birds. Boat, waders, no dog.

Its just that old.  It's also only a 2 3/4" chamber and since I can shoot 3's with my Citori it's gotten the call up the last 3 weekends.  I can also hit a lot better with it than the 870.

Now, proof:


Baptising myself in the blood of my prey: (look at my cheek on the right hehehe)


This evenings dinner:

Ha! Good for you!

An old 870 with a 2 3/4" chamber probably shouldn't be fed modern high velocity ammo. Couple hundred bucks in the off season will get you a nova or 870.

Duck hunting is very addictive, I agree. Took my girlfriend for the first time yesterday. We killed one hen gadwall, motor wouldn't start and had to paddle across a half mile slough in a 14' Jon boat, fell on my ass and found a leak in my waders, girlfriend didn't kill anything. In other words, we had a great time. Beautiful morning. She thought the boat ride was romantic.

I shoot an old Model 12 ('51 manufacture) in 2 3/4", with Winchester Fasteel #4's- it's an 1 1/16" of shot going at 1550 fps, and, when you shoot straight and get them in the center of the pattern, I have no trouble folding them clean in the air, if you don't shoot much farther than 40 yards. That load patterns the best for me, and I very rarely cripple birds and it's rarer yet I loose one.

Point is, shoot whatever patterns best for your gun because in my experience, making good shots with a high pattern density and velocity at a reasonable range is the way to kill ducks, and if you can't make good shots at a reasonable range all the fancy $20-a-box shells in the world won't help.

#2s out of an 85 year old 2 3/4" gun do just fine.

Like I said before, I got skunked my first two times out but still had more fun than I imagined I would freezing my ass off in the dark.  Claiming my first bird, actually my first animal ever, just made it one of the top 5 moments of my life.  Call me a softy but I felt bad that I only wounded them on the first shot and my first thought was it had to be operator error, which improper ammo selection definitely is.  I recently lost my grandfather who was a big outdoorsman, so I like to think maybe he helped guide my aim a little this time.  I've got a 13 month old son who I'm greatly looking forward to taking out with me when he comes of age.

Before or after the Feds banned lead shot?

My son turns 5 in February and will be joining me in the blind March 29th.

Nope, as said above ducks are tough, geese are even tougher.  I'd guess 2 out of 3 need to have the necks wrung.  Hold them by the head and give them a quick twirl to break their neck.  Often as not the dogs have to run/swim down crips.  We lost a drake today that made the main river before the dogs could get to him.

I use 3" #2's.  My partner doesn't like to mess with changing shells especially if geese are around.  He shoots 3" BB's at everything.  He still gets crips.

ETA:  Last week I knocked 3 geese down, pass shooting.  Estimated 40-50 yds.  I was using some 3-1/2" BBB's (mod choke) someone gave me to try out.  Those 3 geese were flat dead when they hit the ground.

The good old days. I miss using mine. My gramps gave me his Savage 720 premium grade made in the 1930s when I turned 16 (1966). I used it through the 70s & 80s (until lead was banned). 2 3/4" chamber, 30" barrel / full choke. I started reloading with a Mec 650 in the mid 70s. My duck loads were Winchester high-brass with 1 5/8" oz of #4 lead over Blue Dot (still got a few boxes in the back of my ammo cabinet, and a full bag of #4 shot). That knocked the shit out of mallards at 50 yds.

When steel became mandatory, I quit using the Savage for duck (still hunted pheasants with it) as all the gun rags claimed steel shot would mess up the full choke. I picked up a (new model at the time) 870 Express, 3", 28" barrel with choke tubes (came with a Mod only) for watefowl. I quickly found out that #4s weren't gonna cut it. Made the switch to #1s, and used T shot for geese. Also switched to an IC choke for hunting ducks over decoys (better patterns at closer birds)

I now hunt with a Mossberg 935 or a Beretta Pintail ES100 (also have the 870 Exp, Browning BPS, Rem 1100 3" mag). Both are 26" barrelled, and I use IC chokes. I don't mind spending $20 for a box of ammo, if it works better (and IMO it does), because I kill more birds with less shots used. I've got literally thousands of dollars invested in duck hunting... guns, 3 boats - Tracker Grizzly for big water, 14' jon for smaller water, 10' jon for ponds. Couple hundred decoys - floaters, shells, silohuettes, 4 motion ducks -  clothes, waders, dogs, blinds, calls. It never ends when you get afflicted with the "duck disease". I've had it for 40 years, there is no cure.

My "go to" duck guns. I gave the 935 a full camo duracoat job, the Beretta has a duracoated barrel & upper. Got the Beretta on Gunbroker for $350, the Mossie at Walmart for $435.


One of our better days... My buddy and I got these, in 1st 30 minutes. I used 935 & Hevi-Metal #2s, he used Benelli M2 & Rem Hyper Sonic #2s. 8 birds, 14 shots between us (2 were kill shots on birds down). Dog is my 7yr old Lab.

It is amazing how I agree with 7M3 on just about all of his answers    I shoot steel #1's at everything out of a tight choke so the number of cripples the dog has to chase down form me are fewer than my hunting partners.........but I am a better shot than them       Probably 90% DRT for me over the decoys.

I pretty much follow this.  Early season I go with 3" #2's.  Most of my birds are decoying at 10-15 yards max.

Late season when those hardy, red leg green heads show up, I switch to BB's.

Fucking quack kills.

This is solid info. I shoot #3s a bit earlier in the season but mostly it's a steady diet of #2s for ducks, honkers and snows, too. Most importantly, pattern your gun! All guns shoot each load differently and if you have a hole in your patterns then your chances of a clean kill go way down.

ETA:

BlindSide are not a good choice for most situations. BlindSide shot spreads quickly. This can be seen with patterning. Blindside shot also loses velocity quickly. Square shot just does not have the same aerodynamics as a round shot does and will have no choice but to have more drag and slow down.  With steel, speed kills. Stick with tried and true standard shotshells 1400+ FPS but preferably a bit quicker like 1550 FPS. Save your money and buy waders or decoys instead of fancy $20+ a box shotshells. Just my 2 cents.

I went with the plain jane Federal blue box #2s.  For $12 a box if they don't work then I'm not out much.  I'm on a limited budget so I won't be getting much fancy gear this year.  Waders and decoys are on the top of the list of things to get for next season.  It seems the premium ammo (Blindside, Black Cloud, Hypersonic, etc) is either loved or hated.  Sometime down the road I'd like to give them a try, but like I said, I'm trying to scrape by spending as little as possible this year.  I've already got the bug so I can see that I'm going to be investing a lot of time and money into this in the coming years.

another vote for 2 shot.

Blue Box Federal is great ammo for Ducks. I used #3s today for a Mallard and a Pheasant that just happened to walk by at the wrong time.

Duck hunting has been slow for me this year.

I'm a fan of the premium steel ammo. Here's why.

Will plain-jane steel, at $12-15 a box kill ducks? Yes it will. Will a premium load like Black Cloud, Hevi-Metal, or HyperSonic at $20 a box kill ducks better? My 40yrs experience in the blind tells me that yes, it most certainly does. $12 per box ammo = 48 cents per shot, $15 a box ammo = 60 cents per shot. $20 per box ammo = 80 cents per shot. Considering all the money spent on boats, motors, decoys, waders, camo clothing, dogs, and a decent shotgun (not to mention time off work to hunt), I personally think it's a little ludicrous to not spend an extra 20 or 30 cents per shot, if you get better results. If you don't get better results, than keep on keepin on with the bargain ammo. I'm not even considering the fact that better ammo = same amount of dead ducks with less shots used.

I also look at it this way... does anybody here hunt ducks with a $200 NEF or Rossi single shot? They work too, so why bother with a 4-figure$  Beretta, Benelli, Browning, Remington, etc? If you use 4 boxes per season, that's only an extra $20 -30 spent in a whole year for better ammo. Most guys I know don't even use 4 boxes. We usually stock up for the next season right after current season ends, and ammo goes on sale. I've been able to buy Black Cloud and HyperSonic in February or March for as little as $15 per box... when I see it that low, I snag it. Or I look for rebate sales. Last September, Hevi-Metal had a $5 per box rebate (limit 4), and was on sale for $21 per box (at both MPW & SG)... so net cost = $16 per box. I got my 4. .

You'll always get your share of cripples. It's just the way it is.  You shoot the duck you want who drops dead and you manage to break a wing on a bird right by him. Once you get over the "Holy shit I shot one" feeling, you'll be able to reload and swat a cripple fairly quickly.  Even then you'll still get the ones who will sail across the river/lake and drop (usually mother nature takes care of those by sending in a bald eagle to steal your bird).
I keep cheap 2 3/4 steel #6 with me as a swatting round.  Seems to work fairly well for knocking them in the head.

 

I am shooting 3.5" BB out of my SBE II shotgun with a IMP MOD choke.

I get wounded ducks a lot as well. I actually did one hunt with the Winchester Blindside shells that are shaped more sharply to cause more damage and fit more load into the shell. I thought it was snake oil, but each duck I connected on was bleeding like a stuck pig and were dead by the time the dog brought them back to the pit.

I bought another couple boxes and will see if it keeps happening that way. If so, I know I will be stocking up on this stuff when the season ends and prices fall.

I have stoned a few right in the air and had them fall 30+ feet and just go SPLASH.  Dead right there, as the deer hunters say.  Dead before they hit the water.  

But as often as not, they hit the water and do not die instantly.  It's worth it to shoot them again, just to make sure they are dead and will not get away/dive/etc.  

Keep the 4s you have to squat cripples.  

Step up to some 1s or 2s since your next hunt will be late season, upper Plains, and the ducks will be fat and fully feathered.  

I typically load the last shell in the magazine with a bigger shot size.  If I'm shooting 3s, I put a 1 as the last shell.  If I'm loading 1s, I use a BB as the last.  Reason being, if I have to get to that 3rd shell, the ducks are undoubtedly farther away or I am taking a shot at a crippled duck that is trying to get away.  

I finally got a chance to put some pellets into a bird this morning.  Steel 2's FTW.
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I had hiked about 400 yards upriver to scout things out since nothing had been moving at all for the first 90 minutes or so.  I had gotten back to our decoy spread and was on the bank which was about 8-10 ft above the river.  I had my gun slung and I heard flapping which made me look down in time to see her hit the water.  I spooked her when I took my gun off my shoulder and she took off.  I had to duck around a low hanging branch to get a clear shot.  I don't even remember aiming, I just remember BOOM and she dropped.  I was amazed I managed to hit her honestly.  From where I was it looked like she was 40 yards away, but it was probably only 25-30 lol.  She twitched a few times in the water and went belly up.  My buddy was about 30 yards from where she landed and had to hoof it through the water to grab her for me since I don't have waders lol.  One shot, nice and clean.  There's less than 2 weeks left in our season here and I doubt I'll be getting out again but I'll be loading up on 2's for next year...

i use 3in #2 for about everything, i will move up to BB if there are alot of geese around, i shoot an A400 Extreme with a patternmaster long range choke with Fedreral Priemium shells but they are now discontunued so when i run out i will find something else. My 12 year old son shoots nothing but 3in Blindside  #2 with great results out of his Maxis. I try to stay with something around 14 to 1500 fps as recoil is very managable  and if you do your part they will kill ducks and geese very well. I hunt 3 to 4 days a week during waterfowl season.

Crips happen, birds are tough it is just part of wing shooting.


There is a fine line between losing wounded birds and mutilating the meat.

Another fan of #2 shot and using premium shells. One shot of expensive shells can be less expensive than two shots of the cheap stuff.

     This.

When we could shoot lead they would drop dead. I use steel 2 mostly for big mallards and get 50% cripples. Glad we use a good dog!

In my 30+ years of waterfowling I have seen the wierdest combination of events that are just unexplainable.  First, lead transferred the energy to birds right quick and would knock them dead immediately.  Lead BBs were killer on BIG Canada geese.  But, the steel looks like it just blows right through the birds and doesn't transfer the energy that lead does.  We have had to adapt.  We moved up from 20s to 12 gauges and the length of the shell grew as well to pack in more pellets.  The shot also got faster and faster.  I now buy 3.5" 1s or 2s going 1550 fps.  Ducks over decoys I shoot 2s except 4s for Teal.  The geese get BBs and BBBs.  The days of the 60 yard shots are gone with lead.  There is no reason to pass shoot ducks and geese at these distances anymore with the steel shot.   Compare the birds you shoot with lead vs the waterfowl.  How many pellets do you pick out of the waterfowl vs the others?

I remember a certain trip where we were on the Missouri River near Yankton, SD close to 15 years ago.  We were battling 30-40 mph winds and the ducks were working hard to get into the kill hole.  We were using our normal gear, 10 gauge 2s and 12 gauge 1s for ducks.  We were having a hell of a time knocking them down for some reason.  We started to get a few here and there and also were running out of ammo.  My brother happened to have a couple boxes of Steel 6s that we use for shooting Doves on some of the WPAs.  We started killing the crap out of the mallards with 6s.  Stone dead in the decoys.  I cannot explain this.  Several thoughts and theories bounced around the boat as we were picking up beating the ducks out of our spot.  Someone theorized that the smaller shot bucked the wind better.  Someone else theorized that more pellets and more chance of getting one into the head.  Still can't say for sure.  But it worked on that day.

I don't buy the new and improved BS slicing and dicing pellet technology.  Think of shooting a muzzle loader with the round ball.  Sometimes you can get a flier.  Now you want to make the ball into weird little shapes....BS.  I don't buy it.  I get the cheapest box of shells at Wally world and kill ducks at 10-20 yards, sometimes with a 20 gauge.

I use 3" #4 or #3 Federal blue box. I suck at wing shooting so not all are clean kills, but more often than not they're clean kills. Down here we have a LOT of teal so I like the #4

I've patterned Black Cloud #2s & 3s, Blindside #2s, and Hevi Shot, all at 25 yds and at 35yds, all with IC choke in a Beretta Pintail ES100. I was surprised at how very few fliers there actually were. Just like you, I expected a bunch with the non-round pellets.... but it just didn't happen.

 

Quit now man

Duck hunting is like a virus that slowly cripples you, come September you start twitching and looking skyward. Early season rolls around and you skip gleefully to your spot and start blasting woodies, then they have the gall to close the season on your for a month and you are like an addict without a fix.

Late season starts up and you end up not getting to work until 10 and leaving at 3 to catch the last flight up the river.

Then after a few season of fishing out your own ducks you buy a dog, and it's a lab, and that little bastard is a pain right in the balls as a pup but he loves to hunt as much as you do. So then you tell your wife things like "I have to go out today dear, the dog will be crushed if we don't get some field time"

Following that your dad invites you to go deer hunting and you say "Hell no pops, the ducks are flying today, lets go get some" and he replies in kind with "You are a crazy bastard freezing your ass off in that blind and wading through that icy water for one tiny duck to grill" he just doesn't get it.

You will get sliced open by thorns, you will fall into icy cold water up to your neck, you will dunk you shotgun and then have to fish it out, your boat will flip over, you will be biting your nails watching the dog make one hell of a daring retrieve and be ready to dive in after him any second if there's trouble.

Tally up the time and money you spend on it and you don't even want to know what wild duck meat costs per pound.

But it is by far my favorite season to hunt. I would go every day it was open if i could. Next year instead of taking a week off for deer season I am taking the first week of early duck off to get a jump on the woodies when the weather is still nice.

Also, regarding the clean kills.

You need to pattern your gun with different loads and pick your loads based on your spot, then you have to have some serious patience when calling.

I shoot #3 1500fps and so far it has been my favorite for versatility. I won't usually shoot over 35 yards though, but my friend smoked one off the water from the front of the canoe at 50 yards. I had to measure it twice, I couldn't believe it. He was thrashing pretty good though and needed to be finished, it was probably my fault because I made the mistake of telling him to empty his gun whenever a flight came in since you can't hit what you don't throw steel at.

Anyway, inside of 35 yards a mallard or black duck is dead provided you put a good shot on it with the 3's. #4 always seemed to leave me with cripples. The woodies on the other hand don't stand a chance with #4's inside of 40 yards, they are tougher to hit though, they come in fast and are a lot smaller.

With steel you won't always get a good kill even if you make a perfect shot on them. You just can't get the right payload to shot size ratio with it compared to lead.

Don't be afraid to shoot every duck two to three times. Once in the air, once falling, and an anchor shot on the water (esp if you are hunting divers with no dog). It's not as pretty as on TV where one shot and they always fold up like a crumbled paper airplane.

Just read through this entire thread...man some guys are really buying into the hype of the expensive gimmick steel loads.
Find a cheap load and choke combo that gives you the energy and pattern density you need for consistent head and neck hits.  Be it ducks or geese.  Swing through the bird and don't shoot it in the ass and your cripple rates will decrease.  I'd much rather spend money on chokes if my factory ones don't work than buy black cloud or blindside or other gimmick loads.  Funny how the manufacturer actually has to do less work to make a black cloud pellet, and less work to the wad, but charge more for the load?  And blind side...well in Europe they use cubed shot as close range spreader loads.  Hevi-metal?  You're not getting the same tungsten that is in their hevishot goose loads.  your getting less dense tungsten that is up to 5 sizes smaller than the steel in the load.  Pattern testing has shown the tungsten to migrate to the fringes of the pattern at 35-40 yards, so your not getting much benefit there either.
a clean burning 1400-1550 fps load of steel 3's or 2's will put mallards on the water.  there is enough loads out there you should have no problem finding one that gives you a nice even pattern so you can get those head and neck hits.  I've tried every load out there, and 7-10 different aftermarket chokes.  I've settled in with a patternmaster and fiocchi, winchester, and federal loads.  When I find a good patterning load, I buy a few cases.

I did exactly that when I found out how the Fiocchi I use performed. It was before SAFE so I just mail ordered a pile of it at $12/box. Pattern great, kills birds. I'm down to my last case though, so I need to get some more.

This is my favorite thing I've read on Arfcom in a long time!

Steel 4's out of a skeet/IC choked gun is going to give you cripples. Especially on bigger ducks outside of the decoys. I shot 4's a few times when I started out, it knocked birds down but a lot of them needed to be swatted.

Now I shoot 3" Fasteel 2's or 3's at 1500fps out of a LM or M choke. The 3's give up a little to the 2's at distance but both loads are very effective on decoying ducks. I still get the occasional cripple but not nearly as frequently. It happens, it's always going to happen, but you can do some things to increase the lethality of your shooting and keep it from happening as often.

If you're concerned about clean kills:
1) Use better shells and better shot size.
2) Pattern your gun with various loads and at various distances.
3) Consider a shotgun with interchangeable chokes and tighten up your choke. Then go back to the pattern board.
4) Practice, practice, practice your shooting
5) Know your personal effective range and don't take shots outside of that distance.

You hunting puddlers or divers?

Divers fly faster making them a harder shot. Use a tighter choke and practice more.