 fatboy79
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Posted: 12/9/2011 10:51:02 PM
[Last Edit: 12/9/2011 10:59:06 PM by fatboy79]
THE IMAGE ABOVE IS A PAID ADVERTISEMENT  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Estate 12 gauge 3" 1 1/4 oz BB Very consistent for a lower priced shell.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Remington Nitro Steel 12 gauge 3" 1 1/4oz T Some kind of little plastic bits mixed with the shot.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Winchester Super X 20 gauge 3" 1oz #2  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Federal Classic Steel 16 gauge 2 3/4" 15/16 oz #2  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Federal Black Cloud 12 gauge 3" 1/1/4oz BB  Uploaded with ImageShack.us Last and perhaps worst is the cheap Winchester Xpert 12 gauge 3" 1 1/8 oz #3 Check out the difference in size and shape of the shot.  Uploaded with ImageShack.us |
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CopperSpine
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Posted: 12/9/2011 11:09:43 PM
OK, now show us the patterns each throws.
5 shots of each. |
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Posted: 12/11/2011 9:53:37 AM
I agree that the Xpert doesn't look very nice, but our group shoots it and I can say it works fine. The BB loads are awesome on geese.
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fatboy79
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Posted: 12/11/2011 10:32:31 AM
Originally Posted By lovetohunt: I agree that the Xpert doesn't look very nice, but our group shoots it and I can say it works fine. The BB loads are awesome on geese. I have shot many a duck with the Xpert myself, but think I do a little better with the Federal stuff. The price on the Xpert went up locally so now it's not such a great deal. I have never patterned my steel loads but found that I can miss just as well with expensive ammo as I can with the cheap stuff. |
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SevenMaryThree
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Posted: 12/11/2011 9:12:14 PM
Xpert kills fine over decoys. When I was a goose guide in the late 80s I shot Remington zinc plated H-Mags exclusively.
These days if I'm shooting steel, it'll be Kent. But mostly if I need to shoot no-tox...I probably won't be shooting steel. 
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HUMONGO
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Posted: 12/12/2011 10:28:45 AM
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion.
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TheRedGoat
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Posted: 12/12/2011 10:52:11 AM
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion. Isn't Black Cloud the one that is blowing up Beretta shotguns? I am not a goose hunter, but one of my former students was telling me, about a month ago, about three of the guys in his group blowing up Berettas or Bennellis with Black Cloud? TRG |
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HUMONGO
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Posted: 12/12/2011 12:03:54 PM
[Last Edit: 12/12/2011 12:04:13 PM by HUMONGO]
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion. Isn't Black Cloud the one that is blowing up Beretta shotguns? I am not a goose hunter, but one of my former students was telling me, about a month ago, about three of the guys in his group blowing up Berettas or Bennellis with Black Cloud? TRG Runs through my Remington 11-87 with no issue in the least. It eats the 3.5's like candy. |
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VTDuckGuy
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Posted: 12/13/2011 8:44:06 AM
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion. Isn't Black Cloud the one that is blowing up Beretta shotguns? I am not a goose hunter, but one of my former students was telling me, about a month ago, about three of the guys in his group blowing up Berettas or Bennellis with Black Cloud? TRG Probably not blowing up the gun, but more like screwing up the choke. Black cloud needs a more open choke, so if they were running large BC and tight chokes that could be the issue. |
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HUMONGO
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Posted: 12/13/2011 9:02:07 AM
Originally Posted By VTDuckGuy:
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion. Isn't Black Cloud the one that is blowing up Beretta shotguns? I am not a goose hunter, but one of my former students was telling me, about a month ago, about three of the guys in his group blowing up Berettas or Bennellis with Black Cloud? TRG Probably not blowing up the gun, but more like screwing up the choke. Black cloud needs a more open choke, so if they were running large BC and tight chokes that could be the issue. I use a Carlson's improved choke. |
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Posted: 12/15/2011 10:50:42 PM
I use a carlson modified choke in my 11-87 and they shoot fine but I can't hit anything with them, I use 3" xpert hv and can hit more ducks then I can with black cloud.
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TheRedGoat
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Posted: 12/16/2011 10:01:25 AM
Originally Posted By VTDuckGuy:
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat:
Originally Posted By HUMONGO:
I bought into the gimmick and shoot Black Cloud, but I do shoot Kent on occasion. Isn't Black Cloud the one that is blowing up Beretta shotguns? I am not a goose hunter, but one of my former students was telling me, about a month ago, about three of the guys in his group blowing up Berettas or Bennellis with Black Cloud? TRG Probably not blowing up the gun, but more like screwing up the choke. Black cloud needs a more open choke, so if they were running large BC and tight chokes that could be the issue. Spoke to him at graduation last night. He confirmed it was Bennellis and Black Cloud that were 'blowing up'. TRG |
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HUMONGO
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Posted: 12/16/2011 10:50:58 AM
Originally Posted By jaybow:
I use a carlson modified choke in my 11-87 and they shoot fine but I can't hit anything with them, I use 3" xpert hv and can hit more ducks then I can with black cloud. I haven't patterned the 11-87 yet, but I noticed with trap loads it doesn't shoot as well as my Mossberg 500. I shot 16/25 with the 11-87 and 24/25 with the Mossberg. The one I missed was my own fault, not the gun. I've had the Mossberg for 15 years and the Carlson choke is amazing in it, that's why I put one in the 11-87 I just got. I've killed geese with it, just haven't patterned it yet because the 2 little ones at home demand my time. It could be the choke, the loads, or the fact that I'm using a gun that's new to me. Dunno. Hope to put a few ducks down tomorrow, so we'll see. |
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HUMONGO
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Posted: 12/19/2011 3:18:37 PM
Originally Posted By jaybow:
I use a carlson modified choke in my 11-87 and they shoot fine but I can't hit anything with them, I use 3" xpert hv and can hit more ducks then I can with black cloud. Funny, I tried a mix of BC and xpert with my 11-87/Carlson modified on Saturday with ducks and had noticably better luck with the xpert. No shit. Got a pair of Buffleheads off to the taxidermist. |
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hi-tech-rancher
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Posted: 12/20/2011 11:08:49 AM
Good pics, thanks for posting. When Hevi-shot first came out, the pellets were misshapen and not round. There was an average pellet size, but they were very inconsistent. Now they look a little more uniform but the price is getting out of sight. Kent Tungsten Matrix is awesome but priced outrageously.
I actually remember the days of the old Super Double X Winchester, Grex buffered, copper-plated 1 & 7/8 oz., lead 2"s. You could kill geese at 75 yards with that stuff if you knew the lead. When I guided goose hunts and we started into steel, I used mostly Federal 3 &1/2 inch mags with 1 / 38 Oz BBB or BB. If it was foggy, the 3" 2" s worked good in the decoys. Steel sucks for anything other than decoying. But, those of us that shot it over the last 20 years, got used to the quirks. If you have a good dog, you still can have a pretty good %, even using steel, if you just let birds work, and shorten your range, when the wind is up > 20 MPH. |
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SevenMaryThree
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Posted: 12/20/2011 11:32:15 AM
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher: I actually remember the days of the old Super Double X Winchester, Grex buffered, copper-plated 1 & 7/8 oz., lead 2"s. You could kill geese at 75 yards with that stuff if you knew the lead. Those were my favorite waterfowl load of all time. I still have a few boxes in 6s, 4s, and 2s. And yes...at 75 yards two school buses would get you a dead bird. |
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Posted: 12/30/2011 11:45:31 PM
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Good pics, thanks for posting. When Hevi-shot first came out, the pellets were misshapen and not round. There was an average pellet size, but they were very inconsistent. Now they look a little more uniform but the price is getting out of sight. Kent Tungsten Matrix is awesome but priced outrageously. I actually remember the days of the old Super Double X Winchester, Grex buffered, copper-plated 1 & 7/8 oz., lead 2"s. You could kill geese at 75 yards with that stuff if you knew the lead. When I guided goose hunts and we started into steel, I used mostly Federal 3 &1/2 inch mags with 1 / 38 Oz BBB or BB. If it was foggy, the 3" 2" s worked good in the decoys. Steel sucks for anything other than decoying. But, those of us that shot it over the last 20 years, got used to the quirks. If you have a good dog, you still can have a pretty good %, even using steel, if you just let birds work, and shorten your range, when the wind is up > 20 MPH. Hevi shot was mis-shapen on purpose. The odd shaping of shot actually was found to fill the shell better, and they could be tumbled and packed tighter. Also, the shot flight individually was marginally inconsistent, on a bb to bb type single shot. But with the hevi shot pellets backing into each other at often odd angles, the shot was found to keep it's pattern better than almost all regular round shot shells. It was well known to carry the pattern for several more crucial yards. I liked the Kent tungsten, but Wow, was it expensive. Used only as a 2nd or 3rd shot loaded option. And none of it is inexpensive anymore!!!!  |
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TheRedGoat
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Posted: 12/31/2011 11:24:08 AM
Originally Posted By Rojodiablo:
Originally Posted By hi-tech-rancher:
Good pics, thanks for posting. When Hevi-shot first came out, the pellets were misshapen and not round. There was an average pellet size, but they were very inconsistent. Now they look a little more uniform but the price is getting out of sight. Kent Tungsten Matrix is awesome but priced outrageously. I actually remember the days of the old Super Double X Winchester, Grex buffered, copper-plated 1 & 7/8 oz., lead 2"s. You could kill geese at 75 yards with that stuff if you knew the lead. When I guided goose hunts and we started into steel, I used mostly Federal 3 &1/2 inch mags with 1 / 38 Oz BBB or BB. If it was foggy, the 3" 2" s worked good in the decoys. Steel sucks for anything other than decoying. But, those of us that shot it over the last 20 years, got used to the quirks. If you have a good dog, you still can have a pretty good %, even using steel, if you just let birds work, and shorten your range, when the wind is up > 20 MPH. Hevi shot was mis-shapen on purpose. The odd shaping of shot actually was found to fill the shell better, and they could be tumbled and packed tighter. Also, the shot flight individually was marginally inconsistent, on a bb to bb type single shot. But with the hevi shot pellets backing into each other at often odd angles, the shot was found to keep it's pattern better than almost all regular round shot shells. It was well known to carry the pattern for several more crucial yards. I liked the Kent tungsten, but Wow, was it expensive. Used only as a 2nd or 3rd shot loaded option. And none of it is inexpensive anymore!!!! As an aside, I stopped hunting with steel shot because I kept biting down on a piece of shot when making fried duck. I figured it was just a matter of time until I cracked a molar. How do you guys get the steel out before eating it? TRG |
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SevenMaryThree
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Posted: 1/2/2012 9:30:26 AM
Originally Posted By TheRedGoat: As an aside, I stopped hunting with steel shot because I kept biting down on a piece of shot when making fried duck. I figured it was just a matter of time until I cracked a molar. How do you guys get the steel out before eating it? TRG You can use a bigger size shot that will tend to penetrate through and through. I used 1s for duck. But mostly I just quit hunting ducks. Haven't had a problem since. |
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Posted: 2/9/2012 1:14:59 AM
I use steel 2's and haven't had any problems with biting shot. Yet. I also fillet all meat off the bone and do a little exploratory poking around any bloodshot areas before cooking. That usually nets me about 1 or 2 pellets in a limit of birds.
Saw a post on another site about using the cheapo metal detectors (like the HF $20 type) as quality assurance. |
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Posted: 3/29/2012 4:47:44 PM
I use Kent almost 100% of the time, the only reason i shoot something else is if I find it for a smoking deal that can't be passed up. I have shot Kent for years now and find it extremely effective on both ducks and geese
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