How do you manage Spikes? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - How do you manage Spikes?

Posted: 11/19/2014 12:13:15 PM EDT

This weekend I used my buck limit to cull spikes. And get some blood on some guns...

AR-15

Granddad's Sears model 54 30-30

Springfield '03A3 sporter .30-06

How do you manage spikes?

Posted: 11/19/2014 12:50:43 PM EDT

[#1]

I don't think that you can effectively manage your "personal" herd unless you have it fenced in since young bucks are driven to from their birth range by their mothers. Spikes on your land are likely from some distance away, and their offspring will likely be driven from your land as well.

http://www.military.com/entertainment/outdoor-guide/deer-hunting/the-cull-buck-myth.html

That being said, if it makes you feel better then go for it.

Posted: 11/19/2014 1:50:22 PM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
I don't think that you can effectively manage your "personal" herd unless you have it fenced in since young bucks are driven to from their birth range by their mothers. Spikes on your land are likely from some distance away, and their offspring will likely be driven from your land as well.
http://www.military.com/entertainment/outdoor-guide/deer-hunting/the-cull-buck-myth.html
That being said, if it makes you feel better then go for it.

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So it is not my land. My friend's father has about 40 acres near Kerrville, Tx (in the hill country) non high fenced. It has tons of deer including axis and blackbuck. Last year i took two mounters (axis and bb) and I was told no bucks unless they are management. We try to convince my friend that anyone around will shoot the good ones so why shouldn't we?
I follow the rules because i would like to keep hunting there. Just curious what everyone else does?

Posted: 11/19/2014 3:34:35 PM EDT

[#3]

I also don't follow the old cull buck myth on both of my properties in Wis and Texas. I stick with shooting does and only big bucks. No spikes, forks, or little basket bucks. Let them go, let them grow!

Posted: 11/19/2014 3:44:10 PM EDT

[#4]

Spike's walk along with young forks, 6's and 8's. 3 yr+ 6's and known culls get shot along with older does. Over the years, we've had a fair number of 7s so those fall into the "known cull" category for our place - trying to quit that genetic from spreading.

Posted: 11/19/2014 5:48:08 PM EDT

[#5]

Those not familiar with Texas Hill Country, it is full of smaller deer. Not uncommon to see people feed HUNDREDS of deer in their yard and the next door neighbor hunts. Just taking any deer helps the population. There is not a problem with lack of deer numbers and the ratios seem balanced. I am mostly a meat hunter so I would have and did take a doe too. Shooting does you dont really know what kind of antler genetics your taking out of the gene pool. With the spikes there's little question..

Posted: 11/19/2014 10:08:12 PM EDT

[#6]

I like to eat them, that's how I manage them.

Posted: 11/19/2014 11:26:00 PM EDT

[#7]

"Culling" spikes is terrible management, even if you had enough land to manage. Many a spike turn into stud bucks. There is no way to gauge genetic potential in a spike, it simply is a sign it was born from a yearling doe in most cases, and had a 4-6 week disadvantage the first antler growth season.

Posted: 11/19/2014 11:30:36 PM EDT

[#8]

I was taught in my deer management classes that most spikes are in fact younger deer than most realize and will progress into outstanding deer later. there is a lot of difference between a 6 month to 1.5 year old spike with a decent set of spikes than a 2.5-3.5 year old spike.

we let them walk on our place and we have never seen it effect their antlers later on.
remember most breeding is done by 1.5-2.5 year old bucks. mature bucks 4.5 year old and older only bred 1.2-1.5 times a year in the 15 year Noble Foundation Study.

Posted: 11/20/2014 1:54:03 AM EDT

[#9]

A friend who hosts wounded warrior hunts manages them by allowing the guests to kill them.

Posted: 11/20/2014 11:50:29 AM EDT

[#10]

Purposely culling spikes is like shooting yourself in the foot. You're killing bucks that will be bigger with more time. If antler hunting is your thing, killing spikes because they're spikes is about the dumbest thing you can do.

I'm a meat hunter though, so I could care less. I pass on bucks so I can shoot yearling does

Posted: 11/20/2014 1:29:42 PM EDT

[#11]

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf

Look at the conclusions on page 54b also page 5d.

Spikes are inferior to forked deer at same age. If there are plenty of bucks it makes sense to cull the spikes.

http://www.lefeeds.com/WildlifeTopics/SPIKESSHOOTORNOTTOSHOOT.pdf

Let’s examine some of the findings from thirty three continuous years of Kerr WMA deer
pen data:
• Data indicates the best time to harvest spike antlered yearlings and MAKE
GENETIC GAIN in a deer herd is during periods of nutritional stress such as
droughts, or when beginning a habitat management program before the range has
had a chance to recover. Giving priority to removal of spike antlered deer during
that time will help accelerate genetic gains.
• All antler growth is genetically based and environmentally influenced. Nutrition
is an environmental influence. In order to grow deer with large antlers, a manager
should manage for the best genetic deer possible, and simultaneously manage the
habitat for the best nutrition possible. This will insure those deer reach their
genetic potential.
• At four years of age, deer that were forked antlered as yearlings produced three
feet more gross Boone and Crockett inches than deer that were spike antlered as
yearlings.
• Of all deer classified as spike antlered yearlings, NONE scored higher than 130
gross Boone and Crockett points at maturity.
• At maturity, spike antlered yearlings averaged 17% less live body weight than
yearlings with six or more points.
• The number of antler points at 1.5 years was closely correlated with the number
of antler points at 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 years of age.
• It was demonstrated that spike antlered yearlings produced smaller antlers (points,
tine length, mass, circumference, beam length and spread) than forked antlered
yearlings throughout their lifetime.
• Future antler quality and body weight can be predicted based on yearling antler
characteristics.

Posted: 11/20/2014 2:10:06 PM EDT

[#12]

There aren't enough bucks around here to cull. I try to let bucks walk until 2-3 years old. But everyone around me has to shoot them. Local motto is "If it's brown, it's down!!!" Then they all complain there are no bucks.

Posted: 11/20/2014 2:56:28 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/pwdpubs/media/pwd_rp_w7000_0827.pdf

Look at the conclusions on page 54b also page 5d.

Spikes are inferior to forked deer at same age. If there are plenty of bucks it makes sense to cull the spikes.

http://www.lefeeds.com/WildlifeTopics/SPIKESSHOOTORNOTTOSHOOT.pdf

Let’s examine some of the findings from thirty three continuous years of Kerr WMA deer
pen data:
• Data indicates the best time to harvest spike antlered yearlings and MAKE
GENETIC GAIN in a deer herd is during periods of nutritional stress such as
droughts, or when beginning a habitat management program before the range has
had a chance to recover. Giving priority to removal of spike antlered deer during
that time will help accelerate genetic gains.
• All antler growth is genetically based and environmentally influenced. Nutrition
is an environmental influence. In order to grow deer with large antlers, a manager
should manage for the best genetic deer possible, and simultaneously manage the
habitat for the best nutrition possible. This will insure those deer reach their
genetic potential.
• At four years of age, deer that were forked antlered as yearlings produced three
feet more gross Boone and Crockett inches than deer that were spike antlered as
yearlings.
• Of all deer classified as spike antlered yearlings, NONE scored higher than 130
gross Boone and Crockett points at maturity.
• At maturity, spike antlered yearlings averaged 17% less live body weight than
yearlings with six or more points.
• The number of antler points at 1.5 years was closely correlated with the number
of antler points at 2.5, 3.5, and 4.5 years of age.
• It was demonstrated that spike antlered yearlings produced smaller antlers (points,
tine length, mass, circumference, beam length and spread) than forked antlered
yearlings throughout their lifetime.
• Future antler quality and body weight can be predicted based on yearling antler
characteristics.

View Quote

that says nothing about the health of the herd, but only antler size of available bucks.
antler size of available bucks is not indicative of herd health.

you can manage for herd health or you can manage for antler size. the 2 are not always symbiotic. the fact that my laboratory has been taking calls from Biologists and Veterinarians all over Texas for 2 years regarding newborn fawn deaths from hyperproteinuria and blown out kidneys from elevated protein levels is beginning to cause alarm to the rest of the Whitetail Management Professionals to re examine some of the practices used in Texas.

Posted: 11/20/2014 4:35:16 PM EDT

[#14]

the fact that my laboratory has been taking calls from Biologists and Veterinarians all over Texas for 2 years regarding newborn fawn deaths from hyperproteinuria and blown out kidneys from elevated protein levels is beginning to cause alarm to the rest of the Whitetail Management Professionals to re examine some of the practices used in Texas.

^^Are any of these findings and/or related hypothesis available to the public? I'd be curious to read about this.

Posted: 11/20/2014 6:49:08 PM EDT

[#15]

we just stack em up in the bed, thats our management.

Posted: 11/20/2014 10:47:10 PM EDT

[#16]

They manage pretty well with taters and gravy.

Posted: 11/21/2014 8:31:25 AM EDT

[#17]

Depends on how full the freezer is!

Posted: 11/21/2014 3:19:22 PM EDT

[#18]

The reality is that I hunt public land. I kill what I see, there is no management.

Posted: 11/21/2014 5:56:13 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

that says nothing about the health of the herd, but only antler size of available bucks.
antler size of available bucks is not indicative of herd health.
you can manage for herd health or you can manage for antler size. the 2 are not always symbiotic. the fact that my laboratory has been taking calls from Biologists and Veterinarians all over Texas for 2 years regarding newborn fawn deaths from hyperproteinuria and blown out kidneys from elevated protein levels is beginning to cause alarm to the rest of the Whitetail Management Professionals to re examine some of the practices used in Texas.

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Like I said there is plenty of deer. In fact too many. Way too many. Too many bucks and too many does. The most important part here is aggressive culling of all deer to bring the population to a healthier level.

Posted: 11/22/2014 8:09:56 AM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:
Purposely culling spikes is like shooting yourself in the foot. You're killing bucks that will be bigger with more time. If antler hunting is your thing, killing spikes because they're spikes is about the dumbest thing you can do.

I'm a meat hunter though, so I could care less. I pass on bucks so I can shoot yearling does

View Quote

This.

Posted: 11/22/2014 8:38:09 AM EDT

[#21]

let um walk. You can't judge a buck from his first year rack. If they are crap the next year then roll um and eat um. I never shoot anything until it becomes a 6 or better.

I roll does in a skinny minute.

Posted: 11/22/2014 9:19:49 AM EDT

[#22]

The large 4,000 acre ranch I hunt on in Texas has a standing rule to cull spikes.
Plenty of studies here have proven a lot of you guys very wrong.
They can grow to be antlered bucks but they will almost never be anything exceptional compared to bucks that are antlered in the first year of developement.

Posted: 11/23/2014 7:43:44 AM EDT

[#23]

I saw a big-bodied spike on the last day of the season last year that had interestingly shaped horns for a spike, and I let him walk. Killed the same deer with a big body and same oddly shaped antlers this season. He was a 5-pointer. No doubt in my mind that he was the same deer, and ended up with a brow tine that went straight back. Got as much meat off him as I did from the 7-pointer and the button head combined.

Let them walk.

Posted: 11/24/2014 8:59:23 AM EDT

[#24]

How can you even tell what a spike is going to be? Unless it is clearly a 2.5 year old or more a spike could grow into a nice buck. I had a spike walk past me last weekend. He was with a 2.5 year old doe and a 1.5 year old doe. He was small. Heck momma had some milk in her when I shot her. Anyway he had a nice set of spikes on him. My guess is that he will be at least a 6 next year. No reason to shoot a spike unless as I mentioned it is a much older deer. Depending on when the deer was born based on 1st or 2nd rut, a 1.5 year old might have spikes of forks. Doesn't mean at 2.5 or 3.5 he wont be a real nice deer.

I passed on 4 spikes, 2 forks and 2 six pointers this year. They were all decent for their age. The spike I saw Saturday night only had little short spikes but he was a little deer. My guess is that he was born late due to the mother getting pregnant in the second rut.

Posted: 11/26/2014 3:35:15 AM EDT

[#25]

i got a bunch of camera's in the woods. 90%+ of all spikes are less than 2 years old. you are not doing the herd justice by culling them. you do get the odd freak now and then but unless you know the exact deer you are shooting its bad practice.

JMHO!

where i hunt we have a problem with the buck/doe ratio favoring bucks by a large margin. i still wont kill spikes indiscriminately.

Posted: 11/26/2014 7:07:08 AM EDT

[#26]

Most of what I read say the doe's give the bucks the rack, without knowing which doe is throwing the 2pt wonders just shooting spikes wont solve the problem. if the deer gets to 2.5 years of age and is still a spike it may never make much but you just never know. I have shot 1 that was at least 2.5 and 150lbs or so. big body and 8" or so spikes. im a meat hunter and don't have to use the the 4 letter word cull to justify shooting 1

.here in ETN we have a low population and very few buck sightings. have been lucky this year a spike for a first buck and a 8pt for my 2nd. 1 tag left with over a month left to hunt means no more cull shooting for me

Posted: 11/26/2014 12:27:16 PM EDT

[#27]

It seems like we are split into two camps.
1. Cull without hesitation
2. Let them walk

1. There needs to be a good ratio of bucks2does and there needs to be plenty of deer. If those criteria aren't met I would say go to #2.
2. This will create more bucks on the land. (If all you care about is shooting bucks this is the way to go). Spikes are Scientificaly proven to have antlers and bodies genetically inferior to non spikes (even given all external factors). If the deer population and ratio can sustain it, and antler growth is a goal, then it only makes sense to go to #1.

If you have a purebred dog and breed it to a mutt, you can still have beautiful puppies that look like (exhibit desirable traits) the purebred. Odds just keep going down.

Conclusion: Obviously you need to take into account external factors and take care of the deer population/ratio. After that then cull.
Leaving a Spike in an area with known large antlered deer is allowing him to steal does from the BIG GUY :(
Remember Bambi's Dad wasn't no Spike. He was King of the Damn Forest!

Posted: 11/26/2014 7:05:10 PM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Conclusion: Obviously you need to take into account external factors and take care of the deer population/ratio. After that then cull.
Leaving a Spike in an area with known large antlered deer is allowing him to steal does from the BIG GUY :(
Remember Bambi's Dad wasn't no Spike. He was King of the Damn Forest!

View Quote

I concur with JohnKimble.. It's about the ratio and where you are hunting.. Where we hunt, we let the Spikes and young bucks walk and only shoot mature Bucks (when they present themselves and if I DON"T MISS THE SHOT ), methodology is to grow Big Bucks.. A few years ago we also had a policy of only shooting the big, busting DOEs only in the early season to build the herd, but over the past couple years we have noticed we don't see the Bucks as much during rut.. We are so overloaded with Does now, we presume the Bucks don't have to compete as much because they have there fill. So now we are taking all the DOEs we can.. IMO it's just about balance and the ratio of your population where you hunt.. I may be way off here - I don't know - but it's what I have noticed over the years..

Posted: 11/26/2014 7:54:47 PM EDT

[#29]

shoot or no shoot?

Posted: 11/26/2014 8:07:51 PM EDT

[#30]

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Quoted:
shoot or no shoot?

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LOL .. Depends on where you are man.. In the Delta Zone in Mississippi a legal buck is 15" Main Beam or 12" Inside Spread... But at our Hunting Camp - that would be a no shoot...

Posted: 11/27/2014 10:21:40 AM EDT

[#31]

On mot ranches in Texas he would be on the ground because we don't want him breeding.
Please note there is a big difference between that spike and some little seven month old deer that has two inch long spikes that should not be shot.
But then again I am always amazed at people who hunt deer that cannot tell the difference between a seven month old fawn and a 1.5 year old deer as I have seen plenty of pictures of dead fawns in plenty of online forums.

Posted: 11/28/2014 12:02:18 AM EDT

[#32]

can`t ever remember shooting a spike... there just a young buck, the will get bigger with age. I have shot a lot of does thou..

Posted: 11/28/2014 8:39:55 AM EDT

[#33]

It's food.

In some places there is a shortage.

Some places there are too many.

Manage the heard for health and refrain from judging others with a measuring contest.

Posted: 11/28/2014 1:42:47 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:
On mot ranches in Texas he would be on the ground because we don't want him breeding.
Please note there is a big difference between that spike and some little seven month old deer that has two inch long spikes that should not be shot.
But then again I am always amazed at people who hunt deer that cannot tell the difference between a seven month old fawn and a 1.5 year old deer as I have seen plenty of pictures of dead fawns in plenty of online forums.

View Quote

Everything I keep reading says a buck won't develop antlers until they are around 1.5 years old. If it is 7 months it is going to be just a nubbin buck. The 7 month old spikes you are seeing are a year and a half or more. Amazing...

"As males mature, their antlers become heavier and better developed. Antler growth of male fawns, or “button bucks,” is generally noticeable at 4 to 5 months of age by the presence of “buttons.” At 1-1/2 years of age (yearlings), males grow their first noticeable antlers"

Posted: 11/28/2014 2:19:14 PM EDT

[#35]

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner

nice writeup..

Posted: 11/28/2014 3:00:59 PM EDT

[#36]

Nice article. In the hill country in tx that ranch would have 1000 deer on it and there would not be a chance to grow. All about population health/density/ratios...

Posted: 11/28/2014 4:15:53 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
"Culling" spikes is terrible management, even if you had enough land to manage. Many a spike turn into stud bucks. There is no way to gauge genetic potential in a spike, it simply is a sign it was born from a yearling doe in most cases, and had a 4-6 week disadvantage the first antler growth season.

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This. I don't know where the spike myth started, but it's dug in deep in WV. It's just a young deer, and has just as much potential as the little fork horn or basket bucks. Dr. Kroll did a study about it and his largest whitetail buck started his first year as a spike.

Posted: 11/28/2014 4:30:06 PM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

This. I don't know where the spike myth started, but it's dug in deep in WV. It's just a young deer, and has just as much potential as the little fork horn or basket bucks. Dr. Kroll did a study about it and his largest whitetail buck started his first year as a spike.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
"Culling" spikes is terrible management, even if you had enough land to manage. Many a spike turn into stud bucks. There is no way to gauge genetic potential in a spike, it simply is a sign it was born from a yearling doe in most cases, and had a 4-6 week disadvantage the first antler growth season.

This. I don't know where the spike myth started, but it's dug in deep in WV. It's just a young deer, and has just as much potential as the little fork horn or basket bucks. Dr. Kroll did a study about it and his largest whitetail buck started his first year as a spike.

Looks like he has the potential but odds are he wont be as good as the forked deer the same age

Posted: 11/28/2014 8:44:59 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

Everything I keep reading says a buck won't develop antlers until they are around 1.5 years old. If it is 7 months it is going to be just a nubbin buck. The 7 month old spikes you are seeing are a year and a half or more. Amazing...

"As males mature, their antlers become heavier and better developed. Antler growth of male fawns, or “button bucks,” is generally noticeable at 4 to 5 months of age by the presence of “buttons.” At 1-1/2 years of age (yearlings), males grow their first noticeable antlers"

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Quoted:

Quoted:
On mot ranches in Texas he would be on the ground because we don't want him breeding.
Please note there is a big difference between that spike and some little seven month old deer that has two inch long spikes that should not be shot.
But then again I am always amazed at people who hunt deer that cannot tell the difference between a seven month old fawn and a 1.5 year old deer as I have seen plenty of pictures of dead fawns in plenty of online forums.

Everything I keep reading says a buck won't develop antlers until they are around 1.5 years old. If it is 7 months it is going to be just a nubbin buck. The 7 month old spikes you are seeing are a year and a half or more. Amazing...

"As males mature, their antlers become heavier and better developed. Antler growth of male fawns, or “button bucks,” is generally noticeable at 4 to 5 months of age by the presence of “buttons.” At 1-1/2 years of age (yearlings), males grow their first noticeable antlers"

In my 50 years of hunting I have seen plenty of first year bucks with very small spikes that are maybe one to two inches in length.
These I have seen mostly in south Texas.
And I have seen a great number of nubbin bucks as well.
When you get up on the Edwards Plateau where you are hunting very few first year bucks (6-7 months old) will be anything more than small nubbins.
But that area is known for small deer due to over population and not so good browse.
Reading is fine.
Real field experience is something different.

Posted: 11/28/2014 9:13:00 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

In my 50 years of hunting I have seen plenty of first year bucks with very small spikes that are maybe one to two inches in length.
These I have seen mostly in south Texas.
And I have seen a great number of nubbin bucks as well.
When you get up on the Edwards Plateau where you are hunting very few first year bucks (6-7 months old) will be anything more than small nubbins.
But that area is known for small deer due to over population and not so good browse.
Reading is fine.
Real field experience is something different.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
On mot ranches in Texas he would be on the ground because we don't want him breeding.
Please note there is a big difference between that spike and some little seven month old deer that has two inch long spikes that should not be shot.
But then again I am always amazed at people who hunt deer that cannot tell the difference between a seven month old fawn and a 1.5 year old deer as I have seen plenty of pictures of dead fawns in plenty of online forums.

Everything I keep reading says a buck won't develop antlers until they are around 1.5 years old. If it is 7 months it is going to be just a nubbin buck. The 7 month old spikes you are seeing are a year and a half or more. Amazing...

"As males mature, their antlers become heavier and better developed. Antler growth of male fawns, or “button bucks,” is generally noticeable at 4 to 5 months of age by the presence of “buttons.” At 1-1/2 years of age (yearlings), males grow their first noticeable antlers"

In my 50 years of hunting I have seen plenty of first year bucks with very small spikes that are maybe one to two inches in length.
These I have seen mostly in south Texas.
And I have seen a great number of nubbin bucks as well.
When you get up on the Edwards Plateau where you are hunting very few first year bucks (6-7 months old) will be anything more than small nubbins.
But that area is known for small deer due to over population and not so good browse.
Reading is fine.
Real field experience is something different.

how do you know how old the deer is?

Posted: 11/28/2014 11:01:43 PM EDT

[#41]

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Quoted:

how do you know how old the deer is?

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Quoted:

Quoted:
On mot ranches in Texas he would be on the ground because we don't want him breeding.
Please note there is a big difference between that spike and some little seven month old deer that has two inch long spikes that should not be shot.
But then again I am always amazed at people who hunt deer that cannot tell the difference between a seven month old fawn and a 1.5 year old deer as I have seen plenty of pictures of dead fawns in plenty of online forums.

Everything I keep reading says a buck won't develop antlers until they are around 1.5 years old. If it is 7 months it is going to be just a nubbin buck. The 7 month old spikes you are seeing are a year and a half or more. Amazing...

"As males mature, their antlers become heavier and better developed. Antler growth of male fawns, or “button bucks,” is generally noticeable at 4 to 5 months of age by the presence of “buttons.” At 1-1/2 years of age (yearlings), males grow their first noticeable antlers"

In my 50 years of hunting I have seen plenty of first year bucks with very small spikes that are maybe one to two inches in length.
These I have seen mostly in south Texas.
And I have seen a great number of nubbin bucks as well.
When you get up on the Edwards Plateau where you are hunting very few first year bucks (6-7 months old) will be anything more than small nubbins.
But that area is known for small deer due to over population and not so good browse.
Reading is fine.
Real field experience is something different.

how do you know how old the deer is?

How much experience have you had hunting?
Do you hunt in an area that has HUGE deer populations?
Aging deer is not all that hard.
Sure you might be off a tad here and there between a 3.5 year old and a 4.5 year old but look close at the deer.

Posted: 11/29/2014 9:11:56 AM EDT

[#42]

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Quoted:
Looks like he has the potential but odds are he wont be as good as the forked deer the same age

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Quoted:

Quoted:

"Culling" spikes is terrible management, even if you had enough land to manage. Many a spike turn into stud bucks. There is no way to gauge genetic potential in a spike, it simply is a sign it was born from a yearling doe in most cases, and had a 4-6 week disadvantage the first antler growth season.

This. I don't know where the spike myth started, but it's dug in deep in WV. It's just a young deer, and has just as much potential as the little fork horn or basket bucks. Dr. Kroll did a study about it and his largest whitetail buck started his first year as a spike.

Looks like he has the potential but odds are he wont be as good as the forked deer the same age

I never bought in to the cull the spike theory but a guy posted up a chart from one of the big time managed properties and indeed the basket 6 or 8's ended up producing somewhat better racks than the spikes, so I guess there is something to it, No chance I could find it at this point. In any case I'm in the shoot what makes you happy and who cares what anyone else thinks camp.

Posted: 11/29/2014 9:02:35 PM EDT

[#43]

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In any case I'm in the shoot what makes you happy and who cares what anyone else thinks camp.

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this clearly but discussion broadens minds

Posted: 11/30/2014 12:03:52 PM EDT

[#44]

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Quoted:

this clearly but discussion broadens minds

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In any case I'm in the shoot what makes you happy and who cares what anyone else thinks camp.

this clearly but discussion broadens minds

Broadens minds into believing what is really important, ultimately, is who kills the deer with the biggest antlers... wins.

So what we have today is, folks are tricked into thinking the deer they should have been proud to kill, doesn't measure up.

I'm all about trying to kill something of size, but I pretty much detest how this competition has also increased the cost of deer hunting.

Posted: 11/30/2014 7:56:35 PM EDT

[#45]

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Quoted:
Those not familiar with Texas Hill Country, it is full of smaller deer. Not uncommon to see people feed HUNDREDS of deer in their yard and the next door neighbor hunts. Just taking any deer helps the population. There is not a problem with lack of deer numbers and the ratios seem balanced. I am mostly a meat hunter so I would have and did take a doe too. Shooting does you dont really know what kind of antler genetics your taking out of the gene pool. With the spikes there's little question..

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I can vouch for this. I hunt in Rocksprings (south of kerville) and my buddies lease has TONS of spikes.

I'm fairly confident the OP isn't out shooting yearlings with baby spIke's. It's pretty easy to determine if a spike will in fact remain a spike after a couple years of age. Just this weekend we were out there sitting at several stands around the ranch and had tons of 2-3 year old spikes and split 4pt "buck" running around. There were also plenty of similar aged buck that had a full rack. Again, pretty easy to determine which deer will remain a spike and which will develope to a nice buck.

The fact of the matter is that those deer will breed and their shitty genetics will spread. My buddies and I are firm believers in thinning the heard... My freezer stays full.