You missed my point. I concur with you wholeheartedly about the JSPs.
I'm not crazy about HPs on anything other than two legged varmints.
And Im not crazy about lighter weight bullets that don't have the ability to hold together after hitting bone.
I don't think my son intended to hit the buck in the shoulder, but directly behind the shoulder. The buck was moving and he hit the shoulder. That much was evident he did when it ran off with the shoulder dangling.
Two schools of thought - 1) heavy bullet with lots of energy to break bone and penetrate and 2) light bullet to blow through and cause damage.
I'm of the old school of lots of hit power and massive hemorrhage and organ damage.
So many think penetration is the answer in ballistics i.e. Fackler and ballistic gel.
From my experience of actually killing large game (elk, deer, bear, coyotes, etc) over 35 years nothing seems more important to me than bullet weight and construction with enough energy to do two things - cause blunt trauma and massive hemorrhage.
You won't find me using HPs in a handgun while hunting. Or a muzzle loader.
And from now on I'm sure my son will avoid any HP sabot in his 2.09x50 while hunting whitetail.
It's more than likely going to be a solid bullet of some type.
I do know from personal experience the Nosler 60 gr Partition in 223 is a good bullet to drop does with.
How it would do on a larger and heavier boned buck is still very uncertain in my mind.

I have a load that I built up for deer hunting, but of COURSE, I didn't see a single one last season. Maybe I'll luck out and get called by a local farmer about some coyotes so I can test it out. This load is hot as hell and groups extremely well out of both my 16" stag upper (1:9") and my BCM 20" upper (1:7").

60gr. Sierra HP
24gr. IMR 4895
New Remington brass
CCI 400 small rifle primers

I used a bolt action with a 24" barrel and a single shot with a 26" barrel with the 60 gr Partitions.
If your rifle will shoot well with your bullet, even if it is a 16" barrel, give it a try.
But please be sure it is a bullet designed for larger game and not one for varmints.

Talked to a shooter at an AR match I ran the other day. We were talking about different bullets and accuracy in hunting bullets for the 223.
He told me he hit a Corsican ram with a 44 mag at close range and didn't drop it.
He said it got off about 100 yds and he dropped it where he hit it (quartering away) with a 60 gr Nosler Partition. The muscle and skeletal structure of a large ram is pretty impressive and he said it was no problem for that bullet to drop that ram.
He knows that you often aim for what lays between where the bullet enters and exits. It must have solid structure to expand and break through heavy flesh and bone and continue through the body mass to destroy vital organs.
A bullet that fragments or deflects easily will not penetrate and not leave a long and large interior wound.
From what he reported to me, it did an exceptionally good job going straight in the body, tearing up organs and bones.
That eased a lot of doubt on my mind about a 60 gr Nosler Partition in 223 being decent for a larger buck.

Oooooooooh goody! I like that!!!!

The size of the deer does matter.
But most 55 gr soft points in 223 are of the varmint type.
Made to enter and blow up, not puncture a hole on the other side for fur reasons.
A game bullet for larger game has controlled expansion for deep penetration with maximum hemorrhage.
Sometimes with heavier game you need a heavier bullet with higher kinetic energy so it will penetrate instead of blowing up on a shoulder and wounding the animal where it can still run off.
It's a balance between expansion for tearing up organs and being stout enough to get deep if it has enough kinetic energy.
Meaning jackets are harder and thicker on some bullets than others so the expansion is slow during penetration instead of instantaneous when it first hits.

Nice! Where do we get these? $$$??? Thanks, 9080

Would this be a good round to take a deer with? I want to use my LaRue stealth 18' for this years hunting season. I hunt in the Tx panhandle and most bucks up here are pretty big, last years opening buck was a dressed 165 lb 8 point. I have a 308 i have been using but though it might be fun to hunt with my AR.

Awesome that's whats i wanted to hear, thanks. As for distance, the longest shot i would probably make is around 175 yds so i bet i will be good then. Next question is do you have a good source for these bullets?

I am very tempted to use my DD M4 1:7 to take a deer this year, and from reading this entire thread (only took 90 min )
I am leaning towards Silver State Armory's cartridge topped with either a 62gr or 70gr TSX.

As I have been reading on the Barnes' website, they just released a 50gr FB. I'm tempted to have my brother try this in his 1:12 bbl, but will this still be enough bullet for a 100# deer inside 100yrd?
Is is an FB because its only 50gr and not worth making a BT? - cause my target ammo is a 55gr BT and works great.

Hypothetically, what difference should I see when comparing two identical bullets, except one be BT and the other FB?

OK. So I did it. I finally got a box of 60 Gr. Nosler partitions in 223. As a poster from page 1 that got into
it pretty good with "Clyde" over how I think there are much better choices than a 223 for deer, I finally am
willing to try it out this year. I am still hesitant, as I am a die hard 30 cal/12 Ga slug/50 cal Muzzleloader fan,
but theres no denying the picture evidence and descriptive destruction from this thread.

I figure if Danc46 can give it a fair chance then I should too. I have a "boatload" of tags this year and there
are 3 does that show up at 1730 every night right behind the house. I wont take headshots unless EVERYTHING
is perfect for the shot (a real possibility from the porch w/a bipod and prone with a range of 60 or so yards) and will
carry the tried and true Ruger M77 (-06) for the majority of the hunt like I usually do. Not willing to take the chance
of a 223 and a booner.

A note of thanks to those that have taken the time to photograph, post and explain their experiences here - it's been
a real eye opener for me. As a "doubting Thomas" by nature and going againt the collective traditions of literally
100's of years of hunting experience in the areas I hunt I will be the first one that I know of to try a 223 there.
There's alot riding on this one and most of the guys I hunt with are genuinely interested in the outcome. Most just grunt
and shake their heads in disbelief - but have seen me shoot at some extended ranges and say if anyone there should
try it, it should be me. I'll be sure to document as much as I can while afield. If nothing else it should be a good
lesson - either way.


ETA - Box of 20 was 30 bucks!!