What 223 deer hunting rounds do you guys use?

I've killed a few with the Hornady 60 gr soft point.ALL were 1-shot kills and no deer traveled more than a dozen steps after being hit.
I did NOT try any shots over 50 or 60 yards and I was absolutely certain I could put the bullet where I wanted it to go.
The Hornady performed very well.
                   Dana

I have used 64 gr SP, and 55 gr SP. But last year I went with 77 gr SMK (yeah, I know this is not a 'hunting bullet', but it is a hollow point and darn accurate). I killed one doe with the 77 gr SMK out of a 20" Bushmaster DCM with iron sight from 140-150 yards, kneeling. One frontal shot to the chest .... and it did this to the deer:

Entry wound (notice there is a lot of trauma on the upper section of the left front leg)


The trauma extended along the body (since it was a frontal shot).


There was also major trauma near the spine.


This is what the left under-arm looks like from the inside.


So the 77 SMK kills the deer effectively. But it also damage too much meat. So this year I will stick with a ballistic tip or soft tip bullet. But there is no question on the accuracy of the MatchKing paired with a DCM rifle.

Not legal to hunt in my state with a 223. Not sure I would want to either - although those pics do show some catastrophic damage. I shoot deer with a 308, 30-06, 12 Ga. slug gun and a 50 cal muzzleloader. Most everyone I hunt with shoots a 30 cal of some sort. There's an occasional 270 or 7mm mag and maybe a 300 win mag or WSM if your over the cut corn fields() and have a long poke at one.

Not trying to start another caliber war here but with so many better choices out there, why would you want to use a 22?

That question has been well answered to death on ARFCOM many, many times already.  Let me respond with another question:

Define "better choice".  If a given load has proven to be damned effective time and time again when properly used (just like any round should be), what would make for a "better" choice than that?  Just how dead can you make a deer?

Like I said - I dont want to start a caliber or interweb war with anyone. If you like it, are allowed to use it then by all means shoot what you like.

I (emphasis added) like a 150 - 168 grain Nosler Ballistic tip pushed out of a 308 or preferrably a 30-06.

I (emphasis added) consider a 55 grain A-max for use on deer a crime.  It's a varmint bullet for Christs sake. Is it accurate..Yep. Can it kill a deer...Yep. But call a spade a spade there are "better choices" out there.

Following the same logic, then a 308 or 30-06 is to light. Everyone should be shooting 300 RUM, 416 rigby's, 577s and so on.



I knew of an "Ol' Timer" who claimed he always used a 22 LR, because "Those fancy calibers were expensive", and a 22 would do the job just fine if you knew how to shoot.



Now, I usually use a 243/270/30-30/30-06/308 (depending on what I feel like carrying that day and type of terrain I am hunting), But I have been known to break out my 45-70, 300 RUM, .375 H&H Mag, 20 guage slug gun, 12 gauge slug gun, or even my 44 mag.





I have personally seen what a 223 does to "man size" targets at 300 meters. It did the job just fine.



So if someone wants to shoot it, then fine, to say there are better options out there, is the same as saying a Chevy is better than a Dodge, which is better than a Ford.

Not really, each have their advantages and disadvantages, it is just personal preference.



I started hunting with my 223 AR about 2 years ago (simply because I wanted to). It has worked for me.

Now I do prefer to shoot Winchester Ballistic Silver Tips.

I shoot them in all of the above calibers I can get them in.

I will tell you this, they make my 243 perform like my 308 or 30-06, with less thump to the shoulder.

I love them Werewolf Killers.

You posed a question/challenge.  I responded to it.  If you didn't want it to be answered then you should have kept it to yourself.


Since no one here has said anything about the 55 grain A-Max (except you, that is) your indignation here is misplaced.


And here's where you demonstrate topical ignorance.  In the first place, .223 Remington is not a "bullet".  It is a particular type of cartridge that uses the same diameter bullet (.224) as several other popular cartridges (22-250, 220 Swift, et al).  Secondly, there is a vast array of different .224" bullets made that are designed for very different purposes.  There are indeed some that are designed to fragment easily, and are intended for use in "varmint" rounds.  Then again there are FMJ rounds that are intended for military use, recreational target shooting, etc.  Then there are match bullets designed primarily with long-range accuracy in mind.  And then there are the ones that are designed for controlled expansion and weight retention for use in hunting medium-to-large game like deer and hogs.  The well-known Barnes X bullets and their replacements, the TSX/MRX lines for instance.  Barnes even EXPLICITELY recommends their 52 grain and up (and one of their lighter ones, though I can't recall which) TSX .224" bullets in .223 Remington loads for hunting deer.  There are several other brands/lines of .224" bullets designed for the same thing as well.

You really have no idea what you're talking about here in terms of the current state of .223 hunting rounds.


I've already asked you to tell us what makes some of these other rounds "better choices" for hunting whitetail deer.  Simply repeating the claim does not constitute an answer, no matter how ill-informed arrogance you couch it in.

Very well written. Articulate, and to the point. I dont think I was being indignant though....
Like I said YOU want to hunt deer with a 22 go ahead. It's illegal where I'm from - in ALL its varieties.

Look, I realize that this is ARFCOM and we all love our AR's but I believe that a .308 150 - 168 grain ballistic tip is a far better choice for delivering terminal performance to a whitetails boiler room than a 5.56 NATO or 223 Rem is - regardless of bullet type construction. You dont. I really dont give a shit what you use - that's why it's your choice, but it's not for me. Me, I'll take a .308 diameter bullet thank you.

You are indeed correct in that I have no knowledge about the current state of 223 hunting rounds, nor do I care to find out, but dont assume that I dont know the difference between a 22-250 and a 22 short.  I've been reloading for everything I shoot for over 20 years and am more than a little obsessed with accuracy



Thought you might like this one too (both with a 308 too!!)



Cant we just argue over how much better a 45 acp is over a 9mm? Or how much better the Giants are over the Cowboys?

Really?


Sounds pretty indignant to me.


Well, that is the subject of this thread.


Then we're still left with why you bothered to type...


...if you don't give a shit.  Or even why you're in this thread to begin with.  Pretty disingenuous of you.  Again, don't ask a question if you don't want an answer.


Then posting opinions as though you know what you're talking about is pretty foolish.


Uhhh....who the hell said anything about a .22 short?  That makes even less sense than your comment about the 55 gr. A-Max.  Strawman much?


Good for you.  So what?


If either of those were the subject of this thread, then yeah.  But they're not.  We're here talking about .223 Remington for deer hunting.

I'm done with you Clyde. Have fun with your AR and your 55 Grain Spire points in the woods.

Hey guys Im the OP , so let's try to get  back on the subject - now what I found interesting is that someone mentioned that lighter 223 bullets (50-52 grainers) are reccomended for deer hunting. I know my guns prefer black hills 52 g match ... So can anyone confirm this?

I never left the subject.  But I was off by one grain.  Looking at my Barnes Reloading Manual No. 4 right now, and the 53 gr. TSX in .223 Rem. is identified as recommended for game from coyotes to deer.  Interestingly, they also identify the 45 gr. TSX as good for 'yotes, pronghorn and deer.  Sounds a bit light on energy to me though, even with an avg. muzzle velocity of ~3,300 ft./sec.

Last year I shot two with AR's. My department was evaluating two possible duty loads and I decided to you know "field test" them. The first was the red box 55 grain tap police stuff. As you may know, it is basically a plastic tipped 55 grain bullet. To be honest, I did not expect much out of this bullet and I was a little worried. I picked my shot which was broadside on a young buck. I got him right in the heart. The bullet struck one rib on the way in and there was no exit wound. When I field dressed the deer there was no damage below the diaphragm. When I got the thing home and opened up the chest cavity, everything in there fell out in a red pudding on the floor. Nothing in the chest cavity was anything more than mush including the heart, lungs and esophagus. No wonder he dropped after only running about ten yards.

The second was with the red box 75 grain tap police ammo. I was a little more racy with this ammo because I figured I'd get quite a bit more penetration. I actually made a marginal shot on another young buck a little too far back and a little too low. It was still a fatal hit though and the deer went down after about 20 yards. I could see it laying in the leaves from my stand, so I finished it off with one to the temple to end its suffering. As I field dressed the deer I noticed that my bullet punctured the diaphragm as it traveled through the body. It had not struck any ribs upon entry, but did strike one on exit. There was a complete pass through. The exit wound was about 1.5 inches across. When I opened up the chest cavity, there was a fair amount of damage to the rear of the lungs and diaphragm with a nice, strait tract and good size exit. Strangely I did not find any bullet fragments, but then again I didn't run all the guts through a strainer or anything like that. As I said before, this wasn't my best shot ever, but the bullet did about the same damage as a 30-30 would have done on a similar shot, Well maybe a little less. I will be hunting deer again this year with my AR, but I will be using my old stand by which is a Winchester 64 grain PP over a good dose of IMR 4895. I hope this is the kind of thing you were looking for.

I used the Federal XMAE223SP with great success last year.  One shot behind the front leg at 25 yards. The deer took 3 small steps and fell over.

Its surprising that the lighter bullets perform better

I don't think he said they performed better.  He said the hit with the lighter round was a good heart shot, while the one with the 75 gr. was too far back and too low (possibly a non-vitals hit).  I'd expect that to produce a less-desirable result no matter what round you were using.  That's why the consistenly repeated mantra that shot-placement is key.

That is definitely a false statement.  New York has similar caliber restrictions as Missouri.  ANY centerfire cartridge is legal for big game in New York.  If you don't believe me visit the New York DEC website.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8310.html

So he's 0 for 2 in the Know What The Hell You're Talking About Before Spouting Off category, and hunts without even knowing one of his state's most fundamental regulations.  Great.

Win 64gr power point bullet does the job.

I have used Federal 55gr. Gameking BTHP with very good results.

When I lived in Missouri factory Winchester 64gr Power Point worked great.  Shot placement is key with any caliber not just .223

If I could use .223 now I would try Barnes 55gr or 62gr TSX.

Some of us do not reload , so what Factory loadings are the best?

As indicated, many people like the Winchester Power Point loads.  If you want to try the Barnes TSX bullets then Corbon loads them in their DPX line.

Winchester Power Point 64gr work great and are not very expensive.

Looks like Silver State Armory also loads the Barnes TSX bullet.

Well Im glad I fell into this thread. I am getting ready to hunt dear for the first time in many years. I have always hunted with a shotgun in the LP of Michigan. Living in Alabama I know many people hunt with the 30 06, 7mm mag, etc, etc. I really cant afford a new dear rifle and have a very nice 20 inch AR that I wanted to hunt with this year. It seems the take away from this conversation for me is that....

shot placement

round choice

is the key to successful .223 dear hunting. Ilike to think as we all do I shoot great with my ARs because they are mine and I have grown up shooting them since a wee lad in the Army. Maybe I will post some pictures of I get to take on this year.  The last thing I want to do is shoot one and not kill it.

70 gr Barnes TSX's at 2750 fps took these two.  If you don't handload, try the 62 gr TSX's from CorBon or the 70 grainers from Silver State Armory.  You will need a 7 or 8 twist for the 70 grainers.

The 64gr power point (winchester) is very popular and effective. I also like the 65gr gameking (Sierra). There are others that have their followings too. I would suggest looking in the tacked hunting picture threads since just about everyone there mentions exactly what they used to take their game.

I wish we could deer hunt with supressors here in TX!

I hear ya!  Glad it's legal in SC.  It's amazing what you can hear in the seconds/tenths-of-seconds after a shot on game that you don't normally hear because of the big bang.  

I have the chance to use an AR, AK or Mosin 91/30.

The AR is a 16" with a 4.5x14 scope and 55 grain Remington Core Loct

The AK is a 16" with a 4x scope and 122 grain Wolf HP's

The Mosin is (a big long barrel) with 174 grain surplus and open sights.



I'm WAY more intent to use the AR with the scope that I know can shoot an inch at 100  yards and I would feel comfortable making a 200 yard shot with it and the scope vs a 100 yard shot with the AK or a 50 yard shot with the Mosin.

I used the 55grain core lock in a 20" AR (way to heavy barrel) last year and shot a deer at 70 yards. BUTTON BUCK... Bullet went right in, made a 45 degree turn and exited up and towards the neck.   I was using a 3x9 on 3 power and it was still perfect placement.  Deer dropped in it's tracks, huffed and puffed about 5 times and expired.  Lungs were mush and it passed through the heart.  


The same day I saw our hunting buddy shoot a 200+lb 10 pointer at 20 yards from a blind with a .300 winchester mag.   Bullet went right through it and the deer walked about 30 yards and dropped.  I honestly don't think it heard or felt the shot as it kept grazing AFTER it was shot.  

55 gr Remington SP. We killed a 200 lb hog this summer with my AR w/ 55 gr soft point's. It ran less than 20 yrd's and nose dived. Than damage that we saw when we opened him up make's me not have a problem with hunting Deer & Hog's with my AR.

Hmmmm, Where to start. Here in Illinois, We can't hunt deer with center fire rifles.
If you look at the enegery that a bullet delivers down range, that should make it easy to determin which round is better. Using Hornady's literature,
At 100 yards a 223 REM 55 GR V-MAX., produces 995 ft./lbs. of energy and the 30-06 SPRG 150 GR SST, produces 2403 ft./lbs. of energy.
That is a big difference, When one concideres hunting conditions, like that little twig you didn't see 10 yards in front of the target, that create marginal hits. Yes I would say there are better rounds to hunt with. That is my OPINION. That is what the question was asking for, opinions. I would guess Zoomer didn't like you calling him stupid, because of his opinion.

Bummer for you...but quite irrelevant.


So your reasoning is that more energy always means a "better" round.  Therefor, a .50 BMG is a "better" deer cartridge than .30-06.  I mean, just look at the downrange energy differential between the two.


I didn't call ANYONE "stupid", nor did I imply that he or anyone else is/was.  What is it with people like you who aren't honest enough to respond to what people have actually said, and instead feel the need to make shit up?

Which part did I make up?

You seem to think that everyone must agree with you. If they don't, you feel the need to belittle them.

Perhaps you should have a grown-up explain the difference between "ill-informed" and "stupid" to you.  Then go back and read the comments I was responding to.  He interjected a bunch of ignorance-based bullshit and posed a question.  I answered it...and then he got his nose out of joint because he didn't like the answer.  My responses were completely appropriate to the content of the posts in question.

Grow up, and don't go getting a nose-bleed way up on that high horse of yours.  And chiming in to do nothing but stir up shit over an exchange that ended about 3 weeks ago is pretty damned sad.

Edit:  Ahhh...and using only your 2nd post to start said shit.  Much explained.

Like I said, Belittle. You are the one on a high horse and using profanity.

Have fun with that.

If you are wanting to use the .223 for deer and handload, my choice of bullets would include 60gr Nosler Partition, 75gr. Swift Scirocco, 62gr and 70gr Barnes Triple shock X.
I do not try to save a few $$$ when choosing a hunting bullet. I am also a believer in premium controlled expansion types. Even though the varmint styles may work dramatically a time or two, the ones listed here will save the day when things don't go perfect, like a shoulder hit or bad angles.
Just my $0.02

What would be the heaviest bullet out of a 1/9 twist? I shot 60grain Noslers last season and took a small buck.

im curious, does your states allow you to have more than 5 or 6 rounds in your AR's or any rifle/shotgun?  (Nebraska does not allow no more than 6 cartridges in a semi-auto firearm)

im looking for a 5 round mag for my AR before i take it deer hunting.  any ideas?

AR 15 M16 .223 (MP) BLACK MARLUBE 5 ROUND MAGAZINE C-PRODUCTS

in AR, i'm G2G with full 30-rounders.  Suppressors, SBRs, and even machineguns are G2G here, too!




 

Some 1/9's will work with 75's, some won't.  70's are a pretty safe bet, but there's always an exception or two.  Case in point...  I have two 1/9's that will shoot 75gn A-Max just fine, but refuse to shoot the shorter 70gn Barnes TSX.  I can't explain it.  Much like a woman or a cat, they pretty much do as they please.

i use 64gr PP in my rock river and its 1:9

I took two with Silverbear 62gr Hollow points last season.  One was a heart/lung shot at about 50' and it ran 50yds or so before dropping.  The other was a spine shot and it dropped in place.

I am shooting a 50 grain  vmax balistic tip. At 75yards still plenty of power and with all my practice the ten rounds are in a quarter. My sight is just a clone eotech 551.  Works great for me.

This is my hand load
55 grain vmax
IMR 4198 22.4 ?
PMC primers.

I shall be using some Winchester 64gr Softpoints when I go.  I have some 77gr MK262 Mod1 that I may try as well.

In your sig, it says NY .223 remington is a CENTERFIRE RIFLE cartridge and is legal for big game in New York. .22 rimfire is not legal for big game in NY.

They are not the same.

Manner of Taking
It is unlawful to:

•Take big game while the deer or bear is in water.
•Possess a firearm of any description when bowhunting or when accompanying a person bowhunting during special archery seasons.
•Make, set or use a salt lick on land inhabited by deer or bear.
It is unlawful to hunt big game with:

•A firearm or bow aided by any artificial light or a laser that projects a beam toward the target.
•An autoloading firearm with a capacity of more than 6 shells (one which requires that the trigger be pulled separately for each shot), except an autoloading pistol with a barrel length of less than 8 inches.
•A firearm using rimfire ammunition.
•A shotgun of less than 20 gauge or any shotgun loaded with shells other than those carrying a single projectile.
•A bow with a draw weight of 35 lbs or less.
•Arrows with barbed broadheads; arrowheads less than 7/8 inches at the widest point or with less than 2 sharp cutting edges.
•Dogs.
•Aircraft of any kind.
•Bait.

55 GR PSP, I wish people who "think" 223 in too small would stay out of it. And let those who hunt with 223 have there talk without all the BULLSHIT.

Yeah, I think I will try my AR-15 (.223) this year for deer - NY was thinking my 16" midlength(1 in 7) w/aimpoint. Or maybe just my Bushmaster M4(1 in 9) w/iron sights

Not sure which bullet to use? I have some Hornady 68 grain BTHP Match loaded up with Varget.

I also have some Hornady 55 grain V-Max ( need to load these)