I've had my Extra for a year now, and have yet to get an HF rig. I started looking at stuff the other day and started with the classified boards on various ham sites. Why in God's name are people trying to sell used rigs within spitting distance of brand new ones? Seriously, if I have a choice between spending $650 for a new radio or $600 for a used one, why would I want a used one?

Just venting. Carry on

Try QTH for used equipment. Some slightly used radios have multiple options installed that bring the sale price close to a new radio (without options).

Well, cool your emotions...

It called negotiating...

And they are starting high...

YOUR job, if you are willing to accept it...

Is to  uh, -negotiate- them down...

You can find good deals, it just takes some hunting. Part of the problem with used rig prices is that buyers will pay it. Radios don't get "obsolete" as quickly as other things, and I even see worn out FM VHF rigs from the early 80's with insane prices on them(and other people that realize they are almost junk and sell them for $20). Some of the "specialty" items like all-mode V/UHF rigs seem to only go UP in price. I got one on the low end of the spectrum, and it turns out to need new PIN diodes. Managed to get a partial refund, but it's a pain to find parts for and work on some of those radios.

Just a few years ago when I was selling some gear to pay for a new Icom 7100, my FT-857(close to a decade old at that point, they have been making those things for a good while) sold on eBay for not much under retail price. I was shocked, its good for sellers but sucks for people on a tight budget.

That's what I always thought too, but have you read some threads of seller's complaints here?  People are appalled that you would even ask if they would take less.

OP, I have gotten good deals on ebay for a Yaesu FT-857d and FT-817nd.  YMWV

This is why I miss hamfests. Few things were more fun than the friendly negotiating of a price, in the meantime swapping (usually somewhat exaggerated) stories about that DX that got away or how great (or sorry) the HammerNatCrafters HNC-549 used to be.

Us old farts tended to be social animals and would get out into the wild more than most of today's newer hams.

But as said before, some of the radios may have expensive options like temperature compensated reference oscillators and multiple crystal filters.

I get annoyed when people just ask "What's the lowest you'll take?"

Do research, figure out what the going rate is, and make a legitimate offer. In my experience if I throw out a reasonable price in response to their question, they still won't take it and will try to offer less after that.

At Dayton this year I was selling Motorola HTs for $50 each and one guy wanted to know if I'd take $55 for two

If somebody states a reasonable price on something I am looking for I will pay what he is asking.

If he is asking 90% of new I will not even bother to negotiate. To me it means he is unreasonable and not worth wasting time on.

there are a couple of HF rigs listed in EE right now.  Once you look around you'll see what the going prices are...Super "DEALS" are hard to find, and usually come from someone locally who 'likes' you!

Most ALL vintage rigs have a common bottom-end price.  Getting below that line can be tough.  I've bought almost all of my gear from swap.qth.com.

FWIW, my bride bought me an OLD Kenwood TS850 3 years ago for $650.  it was what I wanted, and the price was in-line with the other offerings.  I could have bought a new current model for not much more...but I wanted the old KW.

This right here. If the guy prices something high, he thinks that is what it's worth. Offering dramatically less can make him feel insulted.

I used to sell cars a long time ago, and people would often be upset with our trade-in OFFER. They'd say, "Well I just fixed the brakes" or "The stereo alone should make the car worth $1000 more." They often didn't understand that a car with no brakes or a nonworking stereo makes their car worth less. 

Why would anyone get offended? Have you tried offering less? I personally never buy anything like cars of used radios unless I bargain at lest 10% off the asking price. With cars it's often 20-30%. They don't like my offer, I turn around and leave. It's nothing personal. There will be another seller who will take my offer, they always do. Sometimes it takes over an hour of negotiating to buy a vehicle. I have walked off a few times and they chased me in the parking lot and agreed to take my offer.
Just contact them and tell them you are willing to pay this much and this is your number to call. You are not wasting their time and they are not obligated to take your offer. The seller may contact you a week later.

The best answer to a question like that is another question: "What would you be willing to pay to keep someone else from taking this radio home?"

Most people are really bad at negotiating, and they dont realize it.  

The laziest and most ineffective way to negotiate is "whats the least you would take?"  Why would anyone ever answer that question honestly.  

Figure out what YOU are willing to pay.  Thats your job as the buyer.  Its not an arbitrary number.  What is it worth to YOU.  

Now you know something.   Make an offer something under that so you have room to NEGOTIATE.  

He will either say "no", but more likely will say a number above what you want to pay but lower than asking.

Then its your move again.

Thats how you negotiate.

I love to negotiate : cars, houses, radios, every other toy known to mankind.  
I couldn't agree more, "what's the least you would take" isn't ever going to work.  
If I'm selling, I started the process by offering my item with a price; it's your job to either pay that price or counter my original offer.  You aren't going to insult me - as long as you don't offer less than half

Then we go back and forth, if I countered your counter there's a pretty good chance that we're going to come to an agreement.

BTW, here's a pet peeve of mine: driving down the road, I see a car with 'for sale' scrawled on the window - and the only other thing on the car is a phone number.  I'm not going to call you, you missed the first step; give me an opening price.  If I don't know what your opening price is I'm sure not going to call to find out.

Prices for pretty much anything used have climbed in recent years.  Folks (including me) don't have as much discretionary income as in the past, so saving a buck has made folks look at used <fill in the blank>, including radio gear.  And yes, a lot of prices for used aren't realistic.  And yes, people get offended when you ask them if they will take less.

FWIW, in the CQ magazine from a few months ago, the author of one article reminisced about days gone by when manufactures would offer a no interest layaway type program for their radios.  I would love if a major manufacturer starting doing this for HF radios - i'd jump on it.  Even if it meant I wouldn't get the radio for a year.  I refuse to carry a balance on a credit card, and although i've saved up cash in the past, the last two times i've tried to do this has seen the money i'd saved up go to pay an emergency bill or an unplanned expense.

Yeah, asking prices for used gear online (and sometimes at 'fests) are insane a lot of the time.  I don't really see the appeal in saving $50 off a $1500 radio of unknown origin... plus shipping .  What's even worse is seeing an "I'LL TAKE IT!" post within 15 minutes of the ad being posted.

Try more obscure shit like packet modems.  The 'latest & greatest' of which take you back to the command line interface and dumb terminals of the early '80s.
"No one does packet any more"
"Cool, sell me your old TNC"
"OK... $300"


There are good deals to be had, though.  Mostly locally and at hamfests.  With much persistence, I've picked up a $350 FT-857, a stack of Kantronics TNCs for $30 or less per, and even a $1 FT-50 at an estate sale

Gotta be persistent... and patient.

What he said. I have a few rigs that I've been trying to sell for some time. Lower the price every couple weeks a bit, but nada. Took on a bunch of estate gear in december. Sold a bunch around tax time, and hardly anything since.

As a seller, I'd say if you see something you're interested in, ask questions and make an offer. Gotta start somewhere, and pricing older/used gear can be difficult.

No matter what you are talking about.....some people think their used crap is worth more than others.  You just don't buy those people crap....problem solved.

I was able to get a Kenwood TS-480SAT for $620, a Yaesu FT-897 with AT-897 for $500, and a Yaesu FT-847 for $700.  One was from an estate sale, one from a local hamfest, one from QRZ.  Just gotta bide your time and keep looking.  If you've got time, you can wait until the good deal comes along.

Used prices do rival new prices on radios. I don't get it either. You see a lot of advice to new hams to buy used gear, presumably so they can save money. But when you are already spending several hundred dollars, for 50 or 75 more I would prefer brand new. If I am already spending a huge chunk, I will happily skip a few fast food lunches to get something in brand new condition.

For used in excellent condition I need to pay around 66% of the new price in order to feel like it is worth taking a risk on used. I don't buy used often, because I don't often see excellent condition stuff that deeply discounted.

Yeah its a crapshoot. Actual Hamsters are some of the cheapest fuckers on the planet though. And yup, save 4 dollars on my used and well fucked Yaekencom from the 1990's. Hamfests and once in a while ebay sellers doing estate stuff and you can get a deal. I paid like 250 for my 817 and ~400 IIRC for my 897 a few years back so it can be done. I did have to "fix" both, but it involved cleaning corrosion out of the battery tray on the 817, and soldering a loose PL259 connector on the 897.

If I were shopping, and had $550, I'd buy This FT891

not affiliated, just sharing

That IS a deal.

Yes, people are nuts.  

I hate negotiating.

If buying, I agree with Mach.  If the price is reasonable, I buy it.  If not, I don't bother with it.

If selling, I trade in cars, and  camera equipment to dealers.  Sometimes I give stuff away to someone needy.  Salvation Army gets some stuff from me.

Sure, I take a financial hit, but I don't care. Life is too short to waste it dealing with that kind of crap.

If I had 550 bucks I'd think about it, but I really don't need more radios either...

True dat...

Annnnd.....It's gone.

I have only been buying new radios lately. Messing with used crap is really not worth it, especially here in the Carolinas. Most people around here don't take care of things. What really gets me is when someone sells a radio and does not even bother to wipe off layers of dust. Screw that. Life is too short to mess with that crap.

Same thing with cars anymore. I never had problems finding good used cars when I lived in Midwest and Southwest. Here in SC it's nearly impossible to find a decent used car. They are all filthy, unkept and poorly maintained. With a new car I know it has been properly maintained. Life is too short.

This is sooooo true. I have been looking for a packet TNC for an experiment, same with old phone patches. Yea I have about given up on that.

I am fascinated by dealers that put our best "No haggle" price is on the windshield so no negotiating needed, and the very uninformed people who fall for it. Like you could put your best trade in price on your windshield and then tell the dealer it's my best price no negotiating needed for my trade.

Jim

I will say 'yes' for the most part, sellers expect to get too much money for used gear.

At least pull up ebay and type in your model number and then select 'sold listings' before posting.

Just had this happen. I have a radio bundle for sale...IC725, power supply, and AH-3 tuner. Guy emails me asking if I'd sell the tuner separately. I reply that I might be interested....what did he have in mind? His response? Similar to above: let me know what you want.

What I want is to sell the package as is for the price asked. If you don't like the price, or want individual parts, make an offer. What's so complicated about it?

Yup, when buying used always have a lowball offer in mind , its a starting point, and if the seller doesn't like it you can work your way up.

They are $629 new.  How is that a deal?  Generally, I look for ham gear in the 70-75% of new price.  At the recent Indy Hamfest I had things marked at 75% of new and if someone wanted to negotiate I would go as low as 50%.  But, you would be surprised how many things I sold for closer to 75%.  Why would I leave that money on the table if I didn't have to?  

It's the art of the deal baby!

Last time I checked, $550 is less than $629 and for an additional $50 he was offering a 23amp power supply. Still seems like a deal to me.

So, the topic of this thread is related to the high price of used gear.  

The radio sells for $629 and is offered at $550.  That is a 12.5% (rounded) discount over brand new.  
The Samlex PS, I have one and like it, is $115 NIB and selling for $50 with purchase of the FT891.  That's a good price on it's own but, combined with the radio is only a 19.5% discount over new for the package.  

A general rule of thumb, for me at least, is 75% of new as a starting price.  I'm sorry, it's just not a great deal IMO.

75% is the number I use also.

Some people take sale price negotiating way too personal and get offended easily. I look at it this way: - There are other sellers or buyers out there. If someone wants to sell a used radio at a new price, so be it. He will never sell it. Why would it bother me? Same thing with buying something. Give them an offer and negotiate. Don't like their price after negotiating? Walk away! It's no big deal.
I had a guy call me once and offered to vacuum clean my carpets. I said:  "How much will it cost me?" He said it was free to show me a new vacuum cleaner. Well....sure, c'mon over! He almost finished one room and quit to tell me how wonderful that vacuum cleaner was. I told him that I really liked his vacuum cleaner but he promised to vacuum all carpets. So he vacuumed the rest of the rooms. Then, obviously he showed me how much dirt was in my carpets and it was because my vacuum cleaner could not pick it up. Honestly, there was not that much dirt as was trying to make me believe. What he was trying to do was to "program" me to believe that I needed his product. The guy was very young but a darn good salesman. He tried very hard but I lost interest when he told me that the vacuum cleaner cost $2,000. He pretty much exhausted all the tricks he knew and offered me his best price of $1,300 and $90 for my old vacuum cleaner. I politely told him, with a smile, that I was not interested. He asked, how often I heard a similar sales pitch before. Heck, I used to deal with salesmen all the time when I worked as a manager at a large manufacturing plant. LOL.
The guy packed his stuff and was leaving. I stopped him and asked of he was still interested in buying my old vacuum cleaner for $90? We both laughed....

Was it an Electrolux vacuum? 

And not just compared to the new price of that old radio but the current competition.  
Example: on the Zed is a TenTec Eagle for $1350.  2 years ago the that Eagle was a really good radio selling at a really good price.  But two things have changed since that time.
1- TenTec is not the company it was and is still trying to figure out what it will be.
2- The IC-7300.  That is a deal changing radio.  Currently selling new for $1350.  
IMNSHO the IC-7300 has changed the value proposition of radios in the $1-2K range.  New model radios need to have a lot of S#!t in their britches to compete, value wise, in that price range.
And old radios that were in that price range even more so.  
Another example: the IC-7200.  5 years ago it was considered a good deal as it just dropped under $1K, especially for those looking to connect a PC to a radio.
Now you can buy it new for $870.  So 25% off the original purchase price ain't going to cut it for me since for another $100 I can get one new with warranty.

Let's use another example for perspective on radio prices.
From PC MAG 1993 pg 137: A Northgate 486dx266 with 4 MB (That's an M not a G) for $2000.
If you needed a PC browse the internet of today would you consider an advert for a used Northgate (pet free home!) for $1500 a good starting price for negotiations?
Let's even presume that it would do what you want it to do.  After all my FT-747 will make SSB QSOs.  
Or would you say, no thx, not even going to email him when I can get an I-3 based PC with 4 GB for $500?

That example points out to me the problem with the used ham radio market on swap.qth/qrz/eham.  
The value proposition has changed due to technology changes even allowing for dollar devaluation.
Suggested list of the FT-1000MP in 1996 was $3600
I think that the folks asking ~$750 are on the right track.  IF I was in the market for radio like that and I needed to be in the 600-700 range I'd contact them see if we could make a deal.
Because a person with only $700 in their pocket aren't looking at a IC-7300 except when they are dreaming.
But for a base, non-mobile, station I think that a FT-1000 @ $750 gives anything else in that price range a good run for its money.
It may not be the final choice but it is a reasonable choice.

We have a new winner for most outrageous opening price on a used radio.
$50 for a BaoFeng UV-5r on the Zed.  Nothing extra.  Just double the current going price.  
Could he at least included a good programming cable?

On a side note: I'm expecting that some of the low cost HT's are going to become Amazon add-on type items.
Only orderable when ordering other items.

I sold an LDG KT-100 tuner, Kent paddle, Signalink USB, & a N9TAX 2m/70cm Slim Jim Antenna on QRZ Sunday morning. Sold 3 items within 15 minutes, & the last item the next day. I checked what most people were asking & lowered my price by $10 - $15 & included shipping. Some people are absolutely kidding themselves on asking prices. I see stuff re-listed 4 or 5 times & they are still overpriced.

However, you can catch some good deals if you know what you want & the person is actually wanting to move item. Some old farts sit around & list crap every friggin day, same items, same price & never sell anything. No sweat, just move on when you see those.

Just my $.02 worth, $.003 after taxes.

By the time I saw your N9TAX with the 16' lead, it was gone, I'd gladly paid you the asking $20 :)

I've been privy to facilitate a few sales/buys of late for used gear from the Zed and Swap.QTH.com

Like New Yaesu 212 mobile $55 shipped
BNIB Alinco 2m $120 shipped
As-New Kenwood TM281 with RT Cable and CD-rom $100 shipped
BNIB Kenwood TM281 $90 shipped
Wouxun dual-band HT $65 shipped
BNIB Raspberry Pi 3 $25 shipped

deals exist, you just have to shop