HF in the event of a local disaster......

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - HF in the event of a local disaster......

Posted: 6/9/2017 11:40:34 PM EDT

I live in southern Illinois.....on the New Madrid Fault. It is better to get a plan ahead of time than if when the even happens...right?

If we have the big one in my lifetime like they are saying, there will be no grid for a season. My question....

I have family that lives outside the area in various states. I would use HF to reach out and make contacts to let family know everything is okay. Relays that is. My question though, what caveats are with that plan?

I don't see a safety issue. But, I would be concerned about pileups. Then again,there are not many operating on HF in southern Illinois or SEMO. Hams are good guys doing everything they can to help in that scenario. Electrical hookup is not an issue.

Posted: 6/9/2017 11:55:43 PM EDT

[#1]

Hopefully, your plan involves the protection and preservation of 17th street bar and grill in Murphysboro. That's sime damn fine BBQ!

Hams are pretty good about keeping disaster net greqs clear, even in HF.

Posted: 6/10/2017 12:04:20 AM EDT

[#2]

Sure. It's easy. You don't need any fancy antennas. A simple dipole and a 100 Watt radio will work just fine. You can simply call someone from another area and have them call your relatives and pass your message.
I doubt there will be a pile-up unless you try to contact a rare DX station or there is a major contest going on. There are several HF bands where contesting is not permitted.
Obviously you will need to learn the basics of propagation, information exchange and of course you need to know the safety rules (RF exposure, Antenna safety etc.) Modern radios are very easy to operate compared to old tube and hybrid radios.

Posted: 6/10/2017 12:12:10 AM EDT

[#3]

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Hopefully, your plan involves the protection and preservation of 17th street bar and grill in Murphysboro. That's sime damn fine BBQ!

Hams are pretty good about keeping disaster net greqs clear, even in HF.

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Been to the Marion one many times. Are you from this area? Holy cow....right close....

Posted: 6/10/2017 12:14:19 AM EDT

[#4]

By the way, I am an Extra and have all the antennas up. My concern was with relaying of info. While I have not used HF in any emergency frequency, I have noticed they are very good about helping anyone in any emergency.

Posted: 6/10/2017 12:33:35 AM EDT

[#5]

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By the way, I am an Extra and have all the antennas up. My concern was with relaying of info. While I have not used HF in any emergency frequency, I have noticed they are very good about helping anyone in any emergency.

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It's been done for emergencies and non-emergencies. I have helped one guy to pass a message to his daughter when they got separated during Katrina. A friend of mine who lives in Slidell, LA (just north of New Orleans) asked his ham neighbor to relay a message to his relatives. His cell phone had no signal and the landline was dead too. He said all the neighbors, who stayed in town during Katrina, were very thankful they had a ham operator nearby. The guy had a small generator and everyone contributed some gas for it.

Posted: 6/10/2017 12:55:10 AM EDT

[#6]

The FIRST place to go is to 14.332 and get in touch with the YLISSB system.

They will forward messages and do anything they can to help you.

It is in reality an emergency net that uses the social side to stay in practice.

Posted: 6/10/2017 2:05:00 AM EDT

[#7]

You can send an e-mail from your HF radio too (need a computer with interface).

Posted: 6/10/2017 8:25:52 AM EDT

[#8]

On the subject of antennas, how far are your family that you would want to communicate with ?

My reason for asking, NVIS antennas are the answer for local to regional comms. If your family is over 400 miles out, then a simple dipole will serve you well. Inside 400 miles, they will be in your skip zone with NVIS propagation.

Posted: 6/10/2017 9:19:48 AM EDT

[#9]

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Been to the Marion one many times. Are you from this area? Holy cow....right close....

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Nope, I live in Virgina. I do know world class BBQ when I eat it, though. :)

I did some telecommunocations work in M'boro, Carcondale, and SIU about 25 years ago.

Posted: 6/10/2017 9:49:32 AM EDT

[#10]

I just read of an amateur operation that is set up just for what OP is talking about, sort of a Radio Telegraph system, I didn't save the link.

It not only used Ham bands but FRS, GMRS and MURS as ways to daisy chain comms (not so sure the usefulness of FRS)

Posted: 6/10/2017 9:50:50 AM EDT

[#11]

Sounds like you are all set already. Pull power (or a whole battery) from a vehicle if you have to. Assuming you are comfortable about getting on the radio and having a random QSO, calling for help or getting someone to relay a message isn't really any different.

The real challenge is making non-random contacts. That's where skill and expertise really come into play.

As for NVIS, don't sweat it. 99% of all horizontal wire antennas are already low enough (less than 1/4 wavelength up) on 40M and down. Just use what you have. Sometimes propagation will be NVIS, sometimes not. Either way it'll work out a couple of hundred miles on the lower frequency bands. Unless you live in the bottom of a hole it's more about band selection than propagation mode.

As someone else mentioned, if you want to get all fancy, set yourself up for WinLink.

Posted: 6/10/2017 9:59:24 AM EDT

[#12]

One could, if one so chose, find one or more nets and check in from time for practice.

In general, emergency nets are very cordial and welcome new check-ins. State nets are usually on 75 Meters and national on 20. Whi8le primarily for tropical storms and hurricanes, the Hurricane Watch Net has activated for other national emergencies, 9/11 being probably the best known. SATERN is another.

You can find other local, state, regional, and national nets here: http://www.arrl.org/arrl-net-directory-search

Posted: 6/10/2017 1:21:08 PM EDT

[#13]

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You can send an e-mail from your HF radio too (need a computer with interface).

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Winlink with Express...actually fooling with VHF winkink right now-almost got it foing. I've used it on HF and it's pretty solid. Like Carl said in episode #24, 'the internet was still working outside of the impact zone'...

past that, maybe some of your fam would be interested in getting a ticket-maybe not.

Posted: 6/10/2017 2:20:17 PM EDT

[#14]

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Winlink with Express...actually fooling with VHF winkink right now-almost got it foing. I've used it on HF and it's pretty solid. Like Carl said in episode #24, 'the internet was still working outside of the impact zone'...

past that, maybe some of your fam would be interested in getting a ticket-maybe not.

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I think that's why a person should consider multiple interoperability solutions. I would be looking at family members that can't or won't take the ham ticket, using alternate radio comms. I know many in my family won't do the rest MO matter what I ask of them.

Posted: 6/10/2017 3:55:52 PM EDT

[#15]

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Winlink with Express...actually fooling with VHF winkink right now-almost got it foing. I've used it on HF and it's pretty solid. Like Carl said in episode #24, 'the internet was still working outside of the impact zone'...

past that, maybe some of your fam would be interested in getting a ticket-maybe not.

View Quote

I bet we can talk peer-to-peer on VHF. I believe you are only about 40 miles from my QTH.

Posted: 6/10/2017 7:41:13 PM EDT

[#16]

there is an iGate nearby that will also allow you to send texts to phones and emails with an APRS capable 2 meter rig. located between J.C. and west Frankfort

Posted: 6/17/2017 7:21:38 PM EDT

[#17]

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By the way, I am an Extra and have all the antennas up. My concern was with relaying of info. While I have not used HF in any emergency frequency, I have noticed they are very good about helping anyone in any emergency.

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Belated response: I was traveling on business and forgot my password...

If you volunteer with the Red Cross or with your local version of an AUXCOMM group then you could just be part of supporting Safe and Well

BTW: my best memories of the area involve camping in the overflow area of Lake Murphysboro State Park.
Much quieter and roomier than the regular campgrounds. With an awesome crop of black widow spiders around the outhouses and poison ivy around everything else.
I should mention I most often was there at the end of October or even in December and Feb. 2004-2010ish.

Posted: 6/17/2017 11:41:05 PM EDT

[#18]

If the New Madrid fault goes, there will likely be several HF emergency nets going, for relief operations as well as health & welfare traffic.

It's also possible that you could get out to a VHF repeater (or simplex) that could get you far enough for folks to have working connectivity to the outside world.

I would give consideration to having some kind of temporary antenna setup in storage, with a support pole or 2-3 tower sections and some kind of basic dipole, fan dipole or something so that you could get back on 80, 40, and 20 if the earthquake takes down your existing antenna structures.

Posted: 6/18/2017 8:13:29 AM EDT

[#19]

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Sounds like you are all set already. Pull power (or a whole battery) from a vehicle if you have to. Assuming you are comfortable about getting on the radio and having a random QSO, calling for help or getting someone to relay a message isn't really any different.

The real challenge is making non-random contacts. That's where skill and expertise really come into play.

As for NVIS, don't sweat it. 99% of all horizontal wire antennas are already low enough (less than 1/4 wavelength up) on 40M and down. Just use what you have. Sometimes propagation will be NVIS, sometimes not. Either way it'll work out a couple of hundred miles on the lower frequency bands. Unless you live in the bottom of a hole it's more about band selection than propagation mode.

As someone else mentioned, if you want to get all fancy, set yourself up for WinLink.

View Quote

I'm gonna have to disagree on winlink as being useful in an emergency. I think the few existing nodes would be so clogged to render the system useless in short order unfortunately. Even these days I have had issues connecting to nodes because people are hogging them.

Posted: 6/18/2017 8:56:39 AM EDT

[#20]

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Quoted:I'm gonna have to disagree on winlink as being useful in an emergency. I think the few existing nodes would be so clogged to render the system useless in short order unfortunately. Even these days I have had issues connecting to nodes because people are hogging them.

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I haven't observed many RMS hogs lately, but propagation has been so bad I can pretty much only reach stations that are in the Northeast and they are typically under utilized. I suspect you might be correct with respect to the stations that are used by the Caribbean sailing crowd (and who all use them for conducting business

).

Posted: 6/20/2017 8:30:32 AM EDT

[#21]

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I haven't observed many RMS hogs lately, but propagation has been so bad I can pretty much only reach stations that are in the Northeast and they are typically under utilized. I suspect you might be correct with respect to the stations that are used by the Caribbean sailing crowd (and who all use them for conducting business

).

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Yeah, multiply that by an order of magnitude in an actual emergency, and then remember most hamsters in an emergency will be trying to run lower power under bad prop conditions too or worst case a few guys that are 5% better prepped than everyone else will hog the stations. Anyhow, I would try to use it in an emergency, but I would just have the expectation that it would be unlikely to actually work.

Posted: 6/20/2017 12:37:41 PM EDT

[#22]

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I bet we can talk peer-to-peer on VHF. I believe you are only about 40 miles from my QTH.

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I eagerly await the results of that test.

Posted: 6/20/2017 2:54:54 PM EDT

[#23]

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I eagerly await the results of that test.

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I'd love to try. I did hear him on my vertical at the house once, calling CQ ARFCOM, when we did an emergency practice several years ago. He went off the air before I ran to the radio to call him back.
I need to get my 5 element rotatable Yagi fixed. The antenna is at almost 90 feet above ground, just above my Mosley HF Yagi. I used to be able to talk to base stations as far as 70-80 miles away but something happened to the antenna. It could have been a lightning strike. The SWR is over 4:1 right now.

@SCWolverine, I'll fix the antenna if you are willing to try.

Posted: 6/20/2017 5:46:53 PM EDT

[#24]

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I'd love to try. I did hear him on my vertical at the house once, calling CQ ARFCOM, when we did an emergency practice several years ago. He went off the air before I ran to the radio to call him back.
I need to get my 5 element rotatable Yagi fixed. The antenna is at almost 90 feet above ground, just above my Mosley HF Yagi. I used to be able to talk to base stations as far as 70-80 miles away but something happened to the antenna. It could have been a lightning strike. The SWR is over 4:1 right now.

@SCWolverine, I'll fix the antenna if you are willing to try.

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Jelly

Posted: 6/20/2017 8:52:31 PM EDT

[#25]

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I did some telecommunocations work in M'boro, Carcondale, and SIU about 25 years ago.

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If you were active on the repeaters I probably talked to you at some point. Small world.

Posted: 6/21/2017 8:52:39 AM EDT

[#26]

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Quoted:
Jelly

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Quoted:

Quoted:

I'd love to try. I did hear him on my vertical at the house once, calling CQ ARFCOM, when we did an emergency practice several years ago. He went off the air before I ran to the radio to call him back.
I need to get my 5 element rotatable Yagi fixed. The antenna is at almost 90 feet above ground, just above my Mosley HF Yagi. I used to be able to talk to base stations as far as 70-80 miles away but something happened to the antenna. It could have been a lightning strike. The SWR is over 4:1 right now.

@SCWolverine, I'll fix the antenna if you are willing to try.

Jelly

You should see the HF Yagi...bigger than my truck! Yeah man, we can give it a go sometime!