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Posted: 5/27/2017 11:13:33 PM EDT
getting off my ass and buying a radio, almost six years after getting my extra.  I'm planning on a, mostly, portable setup, with a long wire, dipole, or monopole antenna. Please give me some feedback on my shopping list:

IC-7200
IC-AH4 - tuner - would a different tuner be better?
RT-SYSTEMS WCS-7200-USB - programming software - is this needed/useful?
ICOM IC-AH2B - kinda pricey for a whip, would this work for portable, on a mast, with a ground plane added?  This is not in the initial purchase, just curious if it's worth looking at.

I have a power supply, anything else I need? Anything I'm going to wish I bought?
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 7:50:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Congrats!

You might want to comment on your goals as they have bearing on the type of antenna(s) you would want to shoot for - low-angle-radiation DX or high-angle-radiation NVIS localis-ish comms?   And bands of interest -  keeping in mind that sunspot cycle is approaching minimum, meaning good efficiency on the lower bands, like 80 M and 40 M,  is now more important. ...... Also, build or buy?

If you haven't done so already, a good basic antenna principles book is always a good idea - there's lots of inefficient stuff out there, and lots of worthless anecdotal reviews, and it helps to have a good basic knowledge that allows you to pick out the good stuff from the nonsense
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 8:44:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Lengthy overview on antennas, feedlines, and propagation: http://www.hamuniverse.com/n4jaantennabook.html.

The ARRL Antenna Book is crammed with info too.

The 7200 is a good radio for in-the-field use. Many like the LDG tuner that is designed to work with Icom products.

With the sunspot cycle on the downhill slide for the next few years, 40, 30 (CW & data only), and 20 Meters are going to be your best bets. 80/75 Meters will be noisy except in late fall, winter, and early spring, and will usually require high power for SSB operations.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 6:00:34 PM EDT
[#3]
I spent 8 years as a communicator in the Marine Corps, back in the 80s.  I would play around with antennas when I could, and got a pretty decent understanding of what worked and what didn't, mostly with VHF, and some HF.  At this point, I'm just looking to get on the air and fiddle with antennas.  I don't have a particular focus, and am not really interested in contesting, but who knows.  

I have a decent handle on solar cycles, learned the hard way.  I used to read articles about HF antennas, and then try out what they said.  It was very frustrating when it didn't work, especially when it was by an author that I had good results with in the past.  The article publish dates ranged from very recent, to decades old.  One day it dawned on me to correlate the publish date with the sunspot cycle, and it all fell into place.

I have a pretty good stack of old literature, and have been adding to it in recent years.  I'm tired of reading, and want to start playing.

I found an almost new as-2259 on ebay, and plan on tweaking it for the 40 & 80 meter bands.

I've been looking for an at-1011 (32 foot whip), but haven't had any luck yet, might have to piece it together.

I'm also going to get an antenna analyzer to play with, but haven't decided which one yet, but leaning toward a rigexpert.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 6:26:07 PM EDT
[#4]
Congratulations! You're starting out with a very nice radio.

From your list:

IC-7200 - Great radio for portable work. If I didn't have so many radios already, including a 718 from before they 7200 was available, I'd have a 7200. They were gone for awhile and now they are back. I just saw one at HRO this week. Like I said, too many radios already. ; )

IC-AH4 - Save yourself some money and get the LDG IT-100. I have four LDG tuners, three that are brand\rig specific and they all work very well.

RT-SYSTEMS WCS-7200-USB - No experience with this so I can't comment.

ICOM IC-AH2B - Given portable usage I'm not sure that you'd want this antenna. There are much better choices from buy to build. Buy options might include something like the LNR EF-Quad (it's a fantastic portable antenna - 10/15/20/40 and no tuner) or many like the Buddipole\Buddistick for portable operation. There are tons of options for building.

If you go with a wire antenna and you operate where there are trees you can use them for support. If a tree isn't readily available look at the fiberglass push-up masts from Max-Gain Systems.

If you are portable what is your power plan? If you plan to go off the grid you might want to consider starting to look into batteries. There are some nice options available that get you a good amount of storage and don't require back surgery after carrying them. Yes, you might have to dial back the power a bit but that may beat carrying a 50 pound SLA battery.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 6:37:56 PM EDT
[#5]
I should have said "backyard portable".   Initially, I'm an extension cord away from all of the power I need.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 7:58:15 PM EDT
[#6]
Thanks for the clarification. I think that you will find that once you're operating portable outdoors you'll like it so much that you will want to go beyond the length of the longest extension cord. There's a lot of Amateur Radio to be done outside. I probably operate 50% of the time outside, either in my yard or in some other location away from home. It's a lot of fun.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 8:30:38 PM EDT
[#7]
This is just a start, I'm sure it will evolve, just don't know what direction.  I figure I'll just let it happen.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 9:27:15 PM EDT
[#8]
If you can put up a permanent antenna in your back yard one option wpould be a 75/40/20 Meter fan dipole. The 40 Meter element will also work on 15 (kinda) as a 3/2 wave radiator. If you dont have room for the 80 Meter element, jius do 40 and 20.
Fan dipole: http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html

Another option would be the Off-Center Dipole (AKA Windom):  http://www.buxcomm.com/windom.htm
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 9:35:10 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm HOA limited, as well as power lines across the back of my lot.  I figure I'll just set up an antenna when I want to use it & take it down when I'm done.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 9:39:50 PM EDT
[#10]
I have an AH-4 but haven't used it yet. I used to have an AH-2 tuner and ran it mobile with a 102 inch SS whip on a ball mount.

It worked pretty well mobile and when I would go camping, I would attach a longer wire to the whip and sling it up in a tree

to tune the lower bands.

That said, I personally like the remote tuners like the AH-4 but the biggest drawback is having to tether it to the rig with

the control cable in addition to the coax. I made a 30 foot extension cable for the control line so it can be roughly

50ft away from the operating position. For the radiator I have a 20ft fiberglass crappie fishing pole I mount in a

tripod and suspend a wire from it. Ground radials are laid out around the tripod and connected to the AH-4's ground lug.

This is yet to be tested but I'm sure it will work just fine.

ETA - If you need to disguise an antenna, an AH-4 and a "flag pole" work pretty well.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 9:58:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Looking at the specs, it looks like the ic-ah4 has a wider impedance range that it can match to than the it-100.  Aside from the $120 price difference, is there any other reason to get the it-100?

The flagpole  is do-able, although I'm not sure how I would insulate it from the ground.
Link Posted: 5/28/2017 11:58:39 PM EDT
[#12]
The radio will do fine but the tuner and the antenna is a waste of money, unless you can't have any other antenna. Use the the money and get a better directional antenna ( if you have space for one) or a radio like IC-7300 which already has a tuner installed and performs significantly better than the 7200.

I've mentioned this numerous times. There is a misconception among hams, especially the newbies, who think that as long as the tuner can tune an antenna, you are good to go. Well, a dummy load tunes just fine but hardly radiates any RF power. Same with antennas. A good resonant dipole will beat any "super slick buddy stick" contraptions on the market these days. A tuner should only be used to slightly trim a mismatch of up to 3:1 SWR, but not to tune rain gutters or a lawn chair as an antenna. All this should have been covered in the Extra manual, by the way.
Manufacturers sell tuners that can tune like 3000:1 SWR and use this as a selling point. Why, because people think that they'll be able to tune any antenna and use it successfully. This is very wrong, especially now as we approach the lowest spot in the solar cycle.
A decent, full size resonant antenna is the best choice. You don't need to spend $10,000 for a Yagi in the beginning. Wire antennas work well and can be built very cheaply. A decent dipole put as high as possible, will work relatively well.
Link Posted: 5/29/2017 8:25:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Excellent advice above in regard to why we want efficiency, even though a tuner may be able to match that 100:1 SWR to your rig's 50 ohm needs.

Another thing to consider up front is antenna polarization - for contesting, DX and long range comms would be most important for you.  This means choosing an antenna type/polarization that gets you long distance comms, as opposed to a "cloud warmer" that shots it's energy upward (which is good for near-in comms)

For a discussion on why we choose one polarization over another for the different desired communication distances ===> "Verticals and Inverted-Ls for the Low Bands – Horizontal Antennas for High Bands" ===> http://vtenn.com/Blog/?p=221



Notice how the blue and green low mounted horizontal  dipole-like antennas have their radiation pointing mostly upward - good for few hundred to a few thousand miles........and that red and purple vertical polarization from vertical and inverted-L antennas shoots it's radiation out at low angles which is good for several thousands of miles world-wide DX.....

Naturally, it's not a sharp either/or situation, IOW a low horizontally polarized antenna that is great for more near-in comms will still work you some DX even though not optimum - and visa-versa.
Link Posted: 5/29/2017 11:22:22 PM EDT
[#14]
While a resonant antenna is best antenna, the OP is in an HOA and looking to go stealthy. A flagpole is the perfect disguise

for a vertical radiator with the AH-4 or similar hidden at the base. Some ground radials (as many as you can) buried in the sod

won't be seen.

An alternative to the "tuner" is use a Hustler multi band vertical and disguise it as a flag pole. Radials are still needed but

it's resonant on the ham bands albeit a pretty narrow bandwidth.

OP needs to post up some MS Paint of the home/lot situation.
Link Posted: 5/29/2017 11:46:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Not a expert but I had the LDG tuner and got rid of it for a MFJ-939. Its faster and much quieter than the LDG.
Link Posted: 5/29/2017 11:56:09 PM EDT
[#16]


red is power lines

my lot is 90 ft wide, house about 45 ft from back property line/power lines.

At least initially, I figure I'll use portable antennas.  Set them up when needed, tear them down when I'm done for the day.  Possibly operate from a field near my house with larger antennas.

I thought about stringing a dipole in the attic, except it would be parallel and at the same height as the closest power lines.  And my attic is a nightmare to move around in.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 12:49:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Wouldn't waste money on the RT systems software.  I've got a 7200 and while I've set up some memories in the past, with the exception of 60M (which I seldom use), I really don't find myself using them.  

For portable ops the 7200 is a great radio.  While it may not have the ears or the filters that other radios offer, it is a rugged setup and wont complain if you happen to leave it out overnight with the condensation or a little rain finds its way to it.  Sure I'm biased because I have one, but if I didn't do portable I'd have sold it when they were temporarily discontinued them last year and I could have sold it for enough to purchase a 7300.  But I like to toss mine in a 20mm ammo can and throw it in the back of my buggy and do portable ops with it.

As for the antenna choice:  Every antenna is a compromise.  What are you looking for and what are you willing to give up?  Me, I like simple and low profile and easy to setup.  As such I run dipoles.  An OCFD on a mast at 40' at the house and a G5RV or cut dipoles on a painter's pole or in trees when /P.  

To the tuner, I run the LDG IT-100.  Simple and it works and less expensive than the Icom offering.  MFJ also offers an automagic tuner for about the same price as the LDG but claims to do it better and faster.  Others will have to speak on the MFJ offering.  Understand the tuner doesn't actually make an inefficient antenna with a high SWR suddenly work like a cut to band dipole.  The tuner box simply matches the impedance of the antenna to what the radio wants to see (50 O) so the radio doesn't see a high SWR and freak out, cut power, or do whatever it does when it sees a high SWR.  But even a haphazard antenna with a high loss that is made tolerable to the radio through a tuner will radiate better than the one that never makes it out of the magazine advert on your desk.  

If your antenna limitations are such that you can only place X antenna, then you only have one choice for an antenna.  But if you have some flexibility in your setup, talk to the various vendors and find out what they can provide that will meet those requirements.  Perhaps its a flag pole antenna.  Perhaps it's running a dipole wire out of sight along the eve of the roof or turning your metal rain gutters into the elements of a dipole.  While neither is as ideal as a free space dipole or hex beam on a 100' tower, they meet your requirements and thus are an acceptable compromise.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 8:54:44 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The radio will do fine but the tuner and the antenna is a waste of money, unless you can't have any other antenna. Use the the money and get a better directional antenna ( if you have space for one) or a radio like IC-7300 which already has a tuner installed and performs significantly better than the 7200.

I've mentioned this numerous times. There is a misconception among hams, especially the newbies, who think that as long as the tuner can tune an antenna, you are good to go. Well, a dummy load tunes just fine but hardly radiates any RF power. Same with antennas. A good resonant dipole will beat any "super slick buddy stick" contraptions on the market these days. A tuner should only be used to slightly trim a mismatch of up to 3:1 SWR, but not to tune rain gutters or a lawn chair as an antenna. All this should have been covered in the Extra manual, by the way.
Manufacturers sell tuners that can tune like 3000:1 SWR and use this as a selling point. Why, because people think that they'll be able to tune any antenna and use it successfully. This is very wrong, especially now as we approach the lowest spot in the solar cycle.
A decent, full size resonant antenna is the best choice. You don't need to spend $10,000 for a Yagi in the beginning. Wire antennas work well and can be built very cheaply. A decent dipole put as high as possible, will work relatively well.
View Quote
This is all good advise
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 10:53:49 AM EDT
[#19]
Where does power come to your house?

If overhead and not buried, this will limit where antennas can be placed.

A G5RV and a cheap mast are good first options IMO and can be used portable as well.  Be sure to get a 1:1 balun sized for your power and as much coax as your G5RV of choice says it needs.  On a mast as a sloper, tuning this for your favorite bands with split-nuts should be pretty simple.

Having had a 7200 for years and now having a 7300, I also say get the 7300.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 3:37:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
getting off my ass and buying a radio, almost six years after getting my extra.  I'm planning on a, mostly, portable setup, with a long wire, dipole, or monopole antenna. Please give me some feedback on my shopping list:

IC-7200
View Quote
Heavy, high power consumption, and not particularly high performance radio, but hey it looks like a military radio.

What kind of operation do you actually expect to do? It's almost assured that there is a better choice in radio, what is best will depend on what you are doing.

IC-AH4 - tuner - would a different tuner be better?
View Quote
Get an LDG or MFJ auto tuner, we just had a thread with some good info on comparing them.

RT-SYSTEMS WCS-7200-USB - programming software - is this needed/useful?
View Quote
HF radios do not generally need "programming".

ICOM IC-AH2B - kinda pricey for a whip, would this work for portable, on a mast, with a ground plane added?  This is not in the initial purchase, just curious if it's worth looking at.
View Quote
You will save a lot by just homebrewing simple antennas.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 8:26:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Where does power come to your house?
View Quote
Underground power.  Not really enough room in the back yard to be above ~30 ft without powerline proximity safety issues.

Will probably put up portables on the side, or in front, of the house.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 10:06:27 PM EDT
[#22]
Can you dimension the drawing?

I am not sure which dimension you are calling 'wide'.
Link Posted: 5/30/2017 10:34:17 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Can you dimension the drawing?

I am not sure which dimension you are calling 'wide'.
View Quote
left to right is 90ft, top to bottom is 135ft
power lines in red
street at bottom
Link Posted: 5/31/2017 9:53:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Then you have plenty of room for the G5RV as a starter antenna.  Even if just run lengthwise vertically on your drawing.

Personally, i would angle the top leg away from the power lines as much as I could.  Put a fiberglass mast against the house on one side or the other, depending on where your radio will be located, and angle the ends over the house like a big C in either direction.  Or a slash of backslash.
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