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Posted: 10/20/2016 4:42:40 PM EDT
One of the mods I'm doing to the K3 requires piggybacking some SMD capacitors on top of the existing SMD capacitors. I'm pretty sure I got it done, but damn those things are small.
I think I'll stick to through-hole components from now on. 
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Posted: 10/20/2016 5:49:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
One of the mods I'm doing to the K3 requires piggybacking some SMD capacitors on top of the existing SMD capacitors. I'm pretty sure I got it done, but damn those things are small.
I think I'll stick to through-hole components from now on.
Yeah. I stopped fiddling with hand soldering when I needed soldering irons built into tweezers, and stereo-microscopes to see what I was doing. So around 2005 or so. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 6:23:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Some +3 glasses, fine tip tweezers and medium/small tipped soldering iron and you're good to go! ........ And insurance that covers vision care is good too.
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:02:24 PM EDT
[#3]
I was using a +2.5 Optivisor, on top of some +1.5 reading glasses, and they were still small.
But the good news, is that I think (hope) this was the most difficult mod to tackle, even though there weren't that many steps in the process. We'll see.... |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:18:21 PM EDT
[#4]
we just started using 01005 caps and resistors.
here is a good overview from one of the pick-n-place equipment companies... http://www.smta.org/chapters/files/oregon_barbini_smta_01005.pdf the comparison with black pepper flakes on slide 4 is interesting. if you don't want to know how state-of-the-art electronics are manufactured, look away. 
ar-jedi ETA in case you missed this post on quasi-3D Xray inspection, http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_10_22/675740__ARCHIVED_THREAD____on_the_modern_methods_of_post_assembly_inspection_of_ball_grid_array__BGA__device_attachment.html |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:36:52 PM EDT
[#5]
These are 0603s. I can't imagine trying to do anything smaller.
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Posted: 10/20/2016 7:46:55 PM EDT
[#6]
Was this the KBF3MDKT to allow receive below 500 kHz? I just did mine today and I'm not convinced it all came together correctly - my confidence is so low that I went ahead and ordered a new KBPF3a with the mod already done. I figure I'll send my old module in to Elecraft and get them to do the mod correctly and then sell it.
I had magnifying goggles, micro-tweezers, and still the damn things were just too small! Sucks getting old. Joe |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 8:06:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Was this the KBF3MDKT to allow receive below 500 kHz? I just did mine today and I'm not convinced it all came together correctly - my confidence is so low that I went ahead and ordered a new KBPF3a with the mod already done. I figure I'll send my old module in to Elecraft and get them to do the mod correctly and then sell it. I had magnifying goggles, micro-tweezers, and still the damn things were just too small! Sucks getting old. Joe Yep, that's the one. My solder joints checked good with an ohm meter, and I think it came out OK. But you just don't know for sure until you get the K3 back together. I figured it like you.....I can always order the KBPF3A, if my handiwork turns out to be a dud. That's the nice thing about the modularity of the K3. Just about anything is fixable.....with a credit card. 
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Posted: 10/20/2016 8:29:59 PM EDT
[#8]
Is it possible to just set the little caps on top of the old ones and smear the sides with solder paste, and hit it with a hot air rework station? I bought one of them a couple of years ago and never fired it up. I messed up a USB port replacement on a tablet trying to use a conventional soldering ion.
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Posted: 10/20/2016 9:46:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Learned the hard way to wear a disposable sanitary mask if working on SMD while sick with a cold. It's amazing how far those little chips can fly if you sneeze unexpectedly.
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Posted: 10/20/2016 10:34:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it possible to just set the little caps on top of the old ones and smear the sides with solder paste, and hit it with a hot air rework station? I bought one of them a couple of years ago and never fired it up. I messed up a USB port replacement on a tablet trying to use a conventional soldering ion. Don't know about the rework station, as I've never used one. This is basically my first time stepping into the SMD world. Those tiny little caps (.06" x .03") aren't going to stay in place by themselves, though. You would definitely have to hold them with something. Like Frank said, if you sneeze, they are gone forever. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 10:53:15 PM EDT
[#11]
My k3 is loaded so I've been dragging my feet on doing that mod. |
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Posted: 10/20/2016 11:09:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Geez, I don't think I would dare take on that task! Those ARE tiny!
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Posted: 10/20/2016 11:46:47 PM EDT
[#13]
I guess I need to look into this mod. I haven't heard of it.
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Posted: 10/21/2016 1:58:30 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't know about the rework station, as I've never used one. This is basically my first time stepping into the SMD world. Those tiny little caps (.06" x .03") aren't going to stay in place by themselves, though. You would definitely have to hold them with something. Like Frank said, if you sneeze, they are gone forever. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it possible to just set the little caps on top of the old ones and smear the sides with solder paste, and hit it with a hot air rework station? I bought one of them a couple of years ago and never fired it up. I messed up a USB port replacement on a tablet trying to use a conventional soldering ion. Don't know about the rework station, as I've never used one. This is basically my first time stepping into the SMD world. Those tiny little caps (.06" x .03") aren't going to stay in place by themselves, though. You would definitely have to hold them with something. Like Frank said, if you sneeze, they are gone forever. The solder paste holds them in place, and you can use the point of a tweezer just pressing down if necessary while hitting it with the hot air. An SMD hot air rework station is the right tool for the job and makes it easy. They are not that expensive on Amazon unless you get one with vacuum pick up and a board pre-heat station. I'm going to pick up a nice rework station with board pre-heat this winter. The board pre-heat lets you use a lot less hot air thereby minimizing time and potential for board damage. I also want to pick up a stereoscopic assembly microscope. I use them at work all the time and it's night and day compared to visors or other round magnifiers. Finally, go onto Youtube and search on "SMD rework". There are a million videos. You'll see how easy it is with the right tools. Hell, there are guys even re-balling BGA packages at home. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 8:56:30 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 10/21/2016 9:53:49 AM EDT
[#16]
This is one of those mods that I'll probably never use. But it's cheap, and I already installed the new synthesizer a while back. And since I am going ahead with the other upgrades, I figured I would do everything at the same time.
The SMD stuff is interesting, but I don't see myself getting into it too much. I would definitely upgrade the work bench if I ever do. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 9:58:50 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And since I am going ahead with the other upgrades, I figured I would do everything at the same time. KIO3B and KXV3B? I popped those in yesterday while trying to do this SMD soldering. Really cool that Elecraft sells these upgrade modules to allow us K3 owners to squeeze a little more performance out of our rigs. I also upgraded my synthesizer a year or so back. Joe |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:07:20 AM EDT
[#18]
I asked about this long ago, and was told (by Wayne I believe) that there was not much interest in that range (LF) then along came the experimental band and shortly after they announced the mod. So maybe my asking and the new band made them decide to go as low as they did (100 kHz). |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:31:16 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...You would definitely have to hold them with something... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Is it possible to just set the little caps on top of the old ones and smear the sides with solder paste, and hit it with a hot air rework station? I bought one of them a couple of years ago and never fired it up. I messed up a USB port replacement on a tablet trying to use a conventional soldering ion. ...You would definitely have to hold them with something... I use a toothpick. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:44:15 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
KIO3B and KXV3B? Yes, those are sitting on my workbench, ready to be installed. Also, the KPAIO3MDKT (a freebie). I installed the high stability TXCO yesterday. And, I installed the K3AUDPROTMDKT a year or two ago. I may get to them today, but I'm meeting some friends at lunch time for BBQ, and that often runs into the late afternoon before we are through. We're pretty good at loafing around.
The synthesizer is most important upgrade, but it is nice to have the other options available, too. 
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Posted: 10/21/2016 10:45:15 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I asked about this long ago, and was told (by Wayne I believe) that there was not much interest in that range (LF) then along came the experimental band and shortly after they announced the mod. So maybe my asking and the new band made them decide to go as low as they did (100 kHz). So it's all your fault. 
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Posted: 10/21/2016 1:01:59 PM EDT
[#22]
When I built my softrock I got halfway done and realized I needed a hot air station.
The rest of it was CAKE after I got it. Then, doing my peaberry (pretty much all SMD) was really easy. I sometimes even just use paste and hot air for through-hole stuff now. If you have doubts, use hot air. Seriously. It's worth it. Reading glasses help loads too, along with some really bright lamps. |
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Posted: 10/21/2016 2:17:31 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it's all your fault. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I asked about this long ago, and was told (by Wayne I believe) that there was not much interest in that range (LF) then along came the experimental band and shortly after they announced the mod. So maybe my asking and the new band made them decide to go as low as they did (100 kHz). So it's all your fault. And worst of all I still have not installed mine |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 12:21:49 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I built my softrock I got halfway done and realized I needed a hot air station. The rest of it was CAKE after I got it. Then, doing my peaberry (pretty much all SMD) was really easy. I sometimes even just use paste and hot air for through-hole stuff now. If you have doubts, use hot air. Seriously. It's worth it. Reading glasses help loads too, along with some really bright lamps. Good to know. I don't have any paste but will look into getting some. |
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Posted: 10/22/2016 9:26:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Well all the upgrades are in, and the K3 is reassembled. So far, everything seems to be working (knock on wood).
I haven't tried the low frequency stuff yet (no antenna), but at a minimum, I'm getting a bunch of AM stations on the broadcast portion of the band, so I'm guessing the general band pass filter is working OK. The pre-amp 2 works as advertised on 12, 10, and 6 meters. The KIO3B now uses a USB port to connect directly with the computer. It also has a built in sound card which allows me to get rid of the Signalink box, and a couple of cables. The computer did get confused and set the default sound card to the one in the K3, but the instructions warned about that, so I was able to track down that problem fairly quickly. On the down side, the computer now makes that "diddle diddle" sound (like when you plug something into a USB port) whenever I turn the K3 on or off.
I had to reconfigure my logging programs to read the VFO/mode on the rig, and I had to reconfigure all the rig interface settings in fldigi and wsjt-x, too. I think I have everything set right, but I'll find out for sure, as I go along. The new soft rubber grip for the VFO knob is nice.
This was a pretty expensive bunch of upgrades, but I think I'm going to be happy with them. We'll see... |
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Posted: 10/23/2016 10:21:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Congrats! Of course you'll be happy with the upgrades - Happy-ness is often in direct proportion to cost
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Posted: 10/25/2016 11:34:25 PM EDT
[#27]
It's time consuming, but you can use superglue and a syringe to glue SMD chips into place first. That way they're already tacked in position when you solder the first end.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:45:32 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's time consuming, but you can use superglue and a syringe to glue SMD chips into place first. That way they're already tacked in position when you solder the first end. LOL...I think I better stay away from that. It sounds like something I could turn into a disaster.
I might be able to get away with it on the larger chips, but something tells me I would have glue everywhere with those tiny little capacitors. I always seem to overdo it, even when working on something relatively big, like putting a new tip on my pool cue.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:53:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL...I think I better stay away from that. It sounds like something I could turn into a disaster.
I might be able to get away with it on the larger chips, but something tells me I would have glue everywhere with those tiny little capacitors. I always seem to overdo it, even when working on something relatively big, like putting a new tip on my pool cue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's time consuming, but you can use superglue and a syringe to glue SMD chips into place first. That way they're already tacked in position when you solder the first end. LOL...I think I better stay away from that. It sounds like something I could turn into a disaster.
I might be able to get away with it on the larger chips, but something tells me I would have glue everywhere with those tiny little capacitors. I always seem to overdo it, even when working on something relatively big, like putting a new tip on my pool cue. You just need a tiny little dot. Place it on the board, then use tweezers and a magnifying glass (I have a desk lamp with a magnifier in it) and place the chip where it goes. Wait a few seconds, and then you can solder it in without worry about the iron moving the chip around. |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 1:55:35 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 10/26/2016 3:22:52 PM EDT
[#31]
SMD parts really aren't that bad. The hard part is figuring out how to do it the first couple times. For me, pre-tinning the pads and using an extra-fine roll of solder helps. Once you're past that initial learning curve, you might even prefer SMD parts.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 3:29:48 PM EDT
[#32]
For those who aren't familiar with SMDs, here is what we are talking about. I had to "piggyback" these capacitors on top of same size capacitors, which were already mounted on the board.
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:14:19 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those who aren't familiar with SMDs, here is what we are talking about. I had to "piggyback" these capacitors on top of same size capacitors, which were already mounted on the board. http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384359/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384360/original.jpg I assumed they were pretty small, but that's amazing! 
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:35:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I assumed they were pretty small, but that's amazing! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For those who aren't familiar with SMDs, here is what we are talking about. I had to "piggyback" these capacitors on top of same size capacitors, which were already mounted on the board. http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384359/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384360/original.jpg I assumed they were pretty small, but that's amazing! Don't sneeze or you'll never see them again! |
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Posted: 10/26/2016 7:41:43 PM EDT
[#35]
You wanna see small? Go back and look at ar-jedi's post near the beginning of this thread, and follow his links. The newer generation SMD stuff is almost literally microscopic in size. Yikes.
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:15:43 AM EDT
[#36]
Although I don't have a Elecraft rig, I do like the corporate philosophy of the end user being able to make his own mods and to a point build his rig. Granted a lot of it is plug and play but it still is a step up from the appliance the other rigs have become.
------------------------- There is a guy in our club that is heavy into homebrewing with surface mount. Mainly because he can. At one club meeting we were ribbing him that he ought to do a surface mount regen receiver. Next month he showed up with one. Damn thing was smaller than two of my blood pressure pills put together. Most of the board space was taken up with the required outputs. Totally useless but an exercise in what can be done. Being more serious he said to stick with 1210 case code. Big enough to see them, yet small enough to get the planform size down. He has a repurposed toaster oven to do the reflow work. His tip is to buy them in cut tape lots of 100. The price break at Mouser and Digikey makes it worth your while to buy in that large of lots. Personally I feel that surface mount is perfect for mass manufacturing but for the hobbyist, not so much. I do this for fun. When I get frustrated with those little parts then the fun goes away and I wonder why I'm doing this. |
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Posted: 10/27/2016 10:51:36 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I assumed they were pretty small, but that's amazing! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For those who aren't familiar with SMDs, here is what we are talking about. I had to "piggyback" these capacitors on top of same size capacitors, which were already mounted on the board. http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384359/original.jpg http://www.pbase.com/david_3/image/164384360/original.jpg I assumed they were pretty small, but that's amazing! Yeah, the larger SMD parts (say, 1206 or 0805) are pretty workable by hand, but 0402 packages are only 1mmx0.5mm, and the next size down is only 0.6mmx0.3mm. My favorite way is to pre-tin *one* pad. Then you press the part down with a pick to hold it in place while you heat that side of the part, let the solder cool, and the part is now tacked in place, with legs directly on the pads. Then you just hit the other legs with the iron. I've seen people drag a blob of solder across all of the legs of a SOP package, then use solder-wick to suck up the excess. Looks like it would work well, but I can't quite bring myself to do that, I still hit each pin individually. |
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